Dragonite Discussion

[The Imposter]

Adjust for Multiscale and lay it out for me, please...still learning how to do all the calculations.

Sounds like Dnite has a shot at nailing Cloyster to the floor...what would be the bare minimum Spe EV for a Mild or Hasty dragon to get the jump on the various Ices (one with and one without Kyurem)?

675. First hit has 75 base power (adjusting to Multiscale) and the remaining hits have 150, having broken Multiscale. Yeah, Dnite's smoked if Cloyster's Shell Smashed, and even without if it switches into Icicle Spear.

 

[bugcatchersdream]

I'm gonna nitpick here, but special DNite is outclassed by Hydreigon.
Plus, you really should get rid of Ice Beam for Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor.

 

[destructo]

special dnite is just used to suprise people into bringing out their physical wall. Then, the physical wall gets smashed. But yes, hydreigon does a better job if you want only 1 special sweeper

 

[Agonist]

Because I forgot to change over from the original set up...should be Modest. No DR, not that lucky...and no outrage for doubles. FB is a single launch (unlike Focus Punch), and I believe BB is a physical move...though I do have it on the team, fwiw.

And the moves got a tweak as well:

- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

*Very non-standard Dragon. Surprise Special Specialist with FB. IB and Tbolt have the chance at status effect which can benefit Washtom if timed right. Had Flamethrower, but this spread actually gets better coverage as Ice Beam covers the weeds and FB covers Steels while also adding a STAB. Belt gives STAB or near-STAB (and sometimes STAB+). SE to 12.

If you're using Hurricane I'll assume you're running rain? If that's the case, you should use Thunder over T-bolt. And Ice Beam is still terrible. Use Dragon Pulse, or Draco Meteor, since you end up doing just as much to dragon types as Ice Beam does, and you have a decent stab at the same time. Lastly, since you're using Focus Miss to hit steels, you could consider Surf, which doesn't have terrible accuracy, and hits steels perfectly fine, and gets a pseudo-stab from rain.

 

[Pokemom]

Doubles and wanted to be prepared for Drizzle/RD; I'm not running rain, personally. It's a VGC spread.

Surf hits the partner and Washtom is on the team.
Dragon moves only SE Dragons while Ice SE's Dragons, bugs, poisons, and (something else that escapes me ATM)
Tbolt over Thunder for sand/hail/neutral/sun
FB for coverage and 10% shot at reducing opponent's SD

Dnite will likely be paired with Rhyperior, and likely as lead, though might mix it up with one of the ghosts as the situation dictates.

Don't forget the Expert Belt which will give STAB, near-STAB, or STAB+ against 12 types.

 

[Vandslaux]

Lol, Ice doesn't hit Bug and Poison SE.

 

[Pokemom]

2x Grass, ground, dragon, fly vs dragon which is only dragon

both 1x bug and poison....I mixed up bug and flying (most bugs are fliers anyway)

 

[Shneak]

Anyone think Inner Focus can be better than Multiscale? It certainly has fooled people thinking my lead Dragonite is Multiscaled, so they try to Fake Out me and I kill them. I like it for the surprise factor.

 

[Vandslaux]

Multiscale. What pokemon that standardly use Fake Out can actually hurt DNite, Mienshao, whom doesn't KO with HP Ice anyway?

 

[Zachmac]

Anyone think Inner Focus can be better than Multiscale? It certainly has fooled people thinking my lead Dragonite is Multiscaled, so they try to Fake Out me and I kill them. I like it for the surprise factor.

Inner Focus sucks. Period.

So what if it saves it from fake out users? The only common ones I can think of are Mienshao and Infernape, one of which it can take out at +0 anyway, while it can beat Mienshao if Multiscale is active or if it's at +1.

And even so, Infernape rarely carries it.

 

[Pokemom]

Not just FO, VGC is seeing double Rock Slide flinches one the first turn. Could definately be a boon there as they would break scale

 

[Zachmac]

Not just FO, VGC is seeing double Rock Slide flinches one the first turn. Could definately be a boon there as they would break scale

Well, it could work in doubles where fake out and rock slide are seen more, but we were talking about singles. We usually do unless someone asks about/brings up VGC.

 

[redcharzard]

Dragon moves only SE Dragons while Ice SE's Dragons, bugs, poisons, and (something else that escapes me ATM)

Ice is super effective on flying, grass, and dragon types (I'm guessing stuff like Butterfree, Leavanny, and Crobat confused you.) Dragon is a good option to counter other dragons and when combined with flamethrower/fire blast gets perfect coverage (except for Heatran which surf/scald/waterfall destroys.)

 

[Agonist]

Anyone think Inner Focus can be better than Multiscale? It certainly has fooled people thinking my lead Dragonite is Multiscaled, so they try to Fake Out me and I kill them. I like it for the surprise factor.

The only reason you should ever use Inner Focus over Multiscale is to use Superpower, or Heal Bell.

 

[UbersSuck20]

Dragonite should get banned due to its Multiscale and many more options. Weavile can 2HKO it with Ice Punch and outspeed it even after one Dragon Dance, but it's beaten by ExtremeSpeed. Cloyster can wall it but it can fall to a Fighting move after one Dragon Dance. CS Haxorus is probably the only good check to it due to Mold Breaker and outspeeding it at +1.

 

[Da Who!]

Dragonite should get banned due to its Multiscale and many more options. Weavile can 2HKO it with Ice Punch and outspeed it even after one Dragon Dance, but it's beaten by ExtremeSpeed. Cloyster can wall it but it can fall to a Fighting move after one Dragon Dance. CS Haxorus is probably the only good check to it due to Mold Breaker and outspeeding it at +1.

Hardly. If the opponent can't get rid of stealth rocks, Dragonite's multiscale is broken, making it much easier to take out. Many pokemon have priority moves such as Bullet Punch r, most notably, Ice Shard which revenge it with ease. It's also walled, depending on the set, by Max Def Ferro, Heatran or Skarmory. Many scarvers such as Politoed and Terrakion can outspeed at +1 and OHKO if multiscale is down. Lum Berry dragonite also has it's Multiscale broken by sand or hail, easy peasy, and if it carries leftovers, a will-o-wisp or T-wave will cripple it. Finally, pokemon like Cloyster who carry strong hit-more-than-once moves dispatch it with ease.

So, to summarise, Dragonite is far from being banned

 

[UbersSuck20]

Yes, but Leftovers Empoleon with 252 Sp.Atk(this is a set that I'm currently testing) deals ONLY 52% when Multiscale is NOT active(I'm wondering how, however, because it should OHKO it at 99%) with Ice Beam. Meanwhile Dragonite is Dragon Dancing, and then he proceeds to sweep my entire team unless I have a Weavile.

 

[Ninja Dewott]

That's why you use something like Starmie or Latios. Save Empoleon for UU

 

[Da Who!]

I'm gonna nitpick here, but special DNite is outclassed by Hydreigon.

Not really, Dnite can abuse Hurricane and Thunder in the rain

 

[Blue Harvest]

That's why you use something like Starmie or Latios. Save Empoleon for UU

Empoleon isn't that bad. I used an offensive mixed Life Orb set (Hydro Pump / Grass Knot / Ice Beam / Aqua Jet) back when Excadrill was OU. It was pretty cool, its easy to forget Empoleon has 111 base Special Attack. Its bulk and typing gave it a lot of free switch ins.