Dream World Ability Discussion

[Viva la Vida]

Swampert with Damp will be AWESOME!!!!

Also, on the Blaziken Infernape issue; Blaziken's base speed is still not so good, so it'll need a couple of turns to set up. Additionally, Blaziken cannot learn Nasty Plot, one reason Inferape is so popular. Maybe the physical Apes will be outclassed, but Nasty Plot Mixape will assure that Blaziken cannot take it's place in OU. Also, I'm pretty sure the only Grass move Blaziken has is Solarbeam, so unless you wanna run power herb, good luck dealing with Swampert and Hippowdon....

Politoed + Armaldo + Vaporeon = Rain dance team domination

That is all.

 

[Sweep Freak]

A swampert with damp will be a Top lead in OU.

Politoed+Armaldo+Kindra+Vaporeon. Insanity.

 

[jellsprout]

Just remember that DampPert can't have Stealth Rock.

 

[Witch of 'Cos]

And imo Kabutops still outslasses Armaldo, with access to water stab, futher boosted in rain. As well as higher speed.

 

[dragontamer98]

But Armaldo has STAB that gets rid of Grass-types, which give Rain Teams trouble occasionally, as well as taking out opposing Ludicolo that want to take advantage of the free Rain.

 

[Fried Rhys]

kabutops can run x-scissor and pretty much eliminate that problem barring **** like tangrowth lul but even armaldo isnt OHKOing tanny

 

[palingensia]

I don't want to sound like a complete n00b by posting this, but has Shadow Tag always had the effect in bold?

"The opponent cannot run nor switch. If this Pokemon switches, the opponent will remain trapped. The opponent may still switch by using Baton Pass."

Found on Serebii. I don't remember Shadow Tag trapping them even when the trapper switches out. That just seems too unfair.

It means that on the turn the Shadow Tag Pokemon switches out, the trapped Pokemon still can't. It can switch the next turn though.


I really don't get this Hydration Vappy hype tbqh. :/

 

[jesusfreak94]

Also, on the Blaziken Infernape issue; Blaziken's base speed is still not so good, so it'll need a couple of turns to set up.

Blaziken and Infernape both caused a fair amount of switches. After setting up on that switch, Blaziken outclasses Ape in offense and bulk. And 252 Spd Jolly Blaziken will outspeed all of OU (except maybe Ninjask and that new 145 Base speed thing, I'll have to check) after just one turn of Speed Boost.

Additionally, Blaziken cannot learn Nasty Plot, one reason Inferape is so popular. Maybe the physical Apes will be outclassed, but Nasty Plot Mixape will assure that Blaziken cannot take it's place in OU.

Blaze got Agility, which could make it faster than Ape. Heck, Blaze has slightly better bulk and much more offensive power, but that didn't put it in OU. NPApe may be able to keep a foot in OU, but Blaze will outclass Ape as a mixed wall breaker, its most popular set.

Also, I'm pretty sure the only Grass move Blaziken has is Solarbeam, so unless you wanna run power herb, good luck dealing with Swampert and Hippowdon....

HP Grass will take care of Swampert, and while it won't OHKO Hippowdon, he still won't like taking one.

My analysis: Blaziken will take Infernape's place as a wall breaker/mixed sweeper. Ape has Grass Knot and Nasty Plot. Important, yes. But Blaziken will have more speed after just one turn, 16 more Base Atk, and 6 more Base SpA. Call it bias, but it's facts.

I really don't get this Hydration Vappy hype tbqh. :/

Amen.

Also, we need to hope that certain TMs that were (stupidly) replaced will be egg moves or move tutor moves by the Pokemon that need them. Damp Swampert will make a nice lead, immune to Explosion and all, but it will still need Stealth Rock, which I think is now replaced. Blaziken is going to really want Swords Dance back. And if Poison Heal Gliscor can get Roost, then it will dominate in whatever might be left of stall when Gen 5 is done with it. If not, then Poison Heal really isn't going to compensate for lack of instant recovery.

So we need to hope for move tutors for: Stealth Rock, Swords Dance, and Roost. Anyone think of any others?

 

[Witch of 'Cos]

Draco Meteor.

So we can abuse some **** awesome dragon dominance in ou again.

 

[Princess Milotic☆]

Luvdisc is probably the worst pokemon anyone would consider using.

Tak3 that back!!

Anyone else sad Milotic dint get rain dish or hydration?We already know shes gorgeous, so dont give her cute charm!! lol

Tyranitar still pwns as OU weather maker(with 100% chance of dirt!)

EDIT - Seaking > All legends and OU pokemon...

 

[Blue Harvest]

I'm too lazy to read the above posts, but to anyone doubting Swords Dance Speed Boost Blaziken (Please, please give him Swords Dance again)..

+2 (or +1) High Jump Kick (130 BP now) vs..

4/0 Gyarados: 78.2% - 92.4%
4/0 Dragonite: 92% - 108%
252/252 Swampert: 113.2% - 133.4%
252/252 Suicune: 92.8% - 109.4%
252/120 Tentacruel: 94.5% - 111.3%
252/4 Starmie: 86.4% - 101.7%
252/252 lol Blissey: 290.2% - 341.5%

Flare Blitz..

252/252 Dusknoir: 106.1% - 124.8%
4/0 Shadow Tag Ghost Candle: 110.4% - 130%
252/252 Ghost Jellyfish: 58.8% - 69.5%


Last move can be either Shadow Claw or Protect to utterly destroy Shadow Tag Candle or Jellyfish. Protect lets you beat nearly all Scarfers, even Timid Starmie if you can pull off three speed boosts. Protect also can stall for Toxic Spikes damage letting Ghost Jelly and candle slip closer to death.

Not to mention Blaziken with Protect can just run HP EVs and rely on Protect to get well over 400 speed with minimal effort. Imagine your opponent's face when Dragonite's Extremespeed deals less than 50%.

 

[d0nut]

I just updated a bunch of stuff on the OP. Gyarados and Salamence both get EQ Spiral if I am correct...which means they will be difficult to revenge kill without priority, especially if they have a DD set up in advance. They may also start running Scarf sets as well. Heracross and a few others got it as well though I don't think it will be as useful to them.

^I believe it has been confirmed that SD is indeed a TM again so expect to see it as the standard set for Blaziken.

 

[palingensia]

Tbh I'd be running Aiming Mark on SD Speed Boost Blaziken so people don't get smart with switching in a Ghost expecting you to nearly KO yourself. Either that or spam Blaze Kick (I don't think Flare Blitz suicide and Hi Jump Kick suicide is warranted is it?).

 

[Swiftrz & Milotic]

Vaporeon with Hydration, pretty awesome.

Jolteon with Quick Feet, pretty stupid.

That is all. XD

 

[jellsprout]

I am going to run Wish/Protect Blissey as a Blaziken lure. It will be fun.

Also, Groudon+Zekrom+Reshiram=GG Ubers.

 

[Simse]

Also, Groudon+Zekrom+Reshiram=GG Ubers.

Latias | Latios with Grass Knot | Dragon Pulse says gg,

 

[d0nut]

I completed the list of abilities on the OP. Here is a list of all the effects of the new abilities:

Wicked Theif - User steals item when hit by direct contact move
Encourage - Attacks gain power but lose secondary effects
Perversity - Stat changes are reversed
Tension - Opponents cannot eat berries
Competitive Spirit - When stats decrease, attack will increase
Faint Hearted - When HP goes below half its stats decrease
Cursed Body - When attacked opponent may become Disabled
Healing Heart - May occasionally heal teammates status problems
Friend Card - It can lower damage to a teammate
Breakable Armor - When hit with physical attacks the user loses attack but gains speed
Heavy Metal - Pokemons weight is doubled
Light Metal - Pokemons weight is halved
Multi-Scales - When pokemon is at full HP incoming attacks do less
Poison Rampage - Increases physical power when poisoned
Heat Rampage - Increases special power when burned
Harvest - The same berry can be used an infinate number of times within battle
Telepathy - Unaffected by allies attacks
Inconsistent - Stats go up and down randomly
Dustproof - Takes no damage from weather effects
Poison Hand - Direct contact moves may poison attacker (same as Poison Point)
Regeneration - HP restores upon switching out (by 1/3 I think)
Pigeon Heart - Defense cannot be lowered
Sand Throw - Speed increases in Sandstorm
Miracle Skin - Immune to stat lowering moves (Clear Body and White Smoke...)
Analyse - Attacks are stronger when going last
Illusion - User transforms into pokemon behind it when sent out
Eccentric - Automatically transform into opponent (Ditto's new signature ability)
Slip Through - Attacks ignore Reflect and Light Screen
Mummy - If hit by a direct contact move attackers ability becomes Mummy
Overconfidence - Attack rises when you faint an opponent
Heart of Justice - Attack rises when hit with Dark type attacks. No damage is taken
Self-Conscious - Certain type opponents increase users speed (possibly foes which have super effective types)
Magic Mirror - Reflects stat changing moves at opponents
Herbivore - Attack rises when hit by Grass attack
Mischievous Heart - Non attacking moves have priority
Sand Strength - Ground, Steel, and Rock attacks increase power in Sandstorm
Steel Thorns - Direct contact moves deal damage back (Rough Skin)
Daruma Mode - Form changes when you fall below 50% HP
Victory Star - Increases accuracy of yourself and teammate
Turbo Blaze - Can attack opponent regardless of ability
Terra Voltage - Can attack opponent regardless of ability

Perversity will be interesting on Jaroda (Grass starter) since it has Leaf Storm and its Sp.Atk will increase instead of decrease when it uses it. Competitive Spirit could be good on things like Primape if Close Combat activates it. Harvest would be great if something like Sceptile got it. Infinate Sitrus Berries would mean endless Subseeding. Exeggutor can try to SubSeed (if Sub is still a TM) but it wouldn't be as effective without speed. Ditto getting what is essentially an auto-Transform makes its life easier and it might actually get some use (even if it is still a gimmick.)

Edit: Sub still is a TM. Now that I think about it Harvest has several other uses such as infinate Lum for complete status immunity as well as full recovery using Rest without drawbacks. You can also use resist berries to eliminate a weakness.

 

[jellsprout]

Latias | Latios with Grass Knot | Dragon Pulse says gg,

Ignoring for a moment that Lati@s won't enjoy switching into any of them and that either Zekrom or Reshiram will likely be Scarfed, has the Soul Dew even been confirmed to be obtainable in Gen 5? Remember that you can't trade over items from the 4th Gen.

I don't think Jaroda has any Special moves besides the Grass attacks and Hidden Power. Leaf Storm only has 8 pp, making it quite easy to stall out, especially with Moltres or something.
And it appears only Tropius and Exeggutor get Harvest.

 

[Viva la Vida]

Blaziken and Infernape both caused a fair amount of switches. After setting up on that switch, Blaziken outclasses Ape in offense and bulk. And 252 Spd Jolly Blaziken will outspeed all of OU (except maybe Ninjask and that new 145 Base speed thing, I'll have to check) after just one turn of Speed Boost.

Look each have their ups and downs. Infernape has a better move pool than Blaziken barring a couple of moves (Brave Bird, Blaze Kick) but Blaziken has more bulk. Additionally, after that speed boost, it will outspeed everything in OU, you're right.

Blaze got Agility, which could make it faster than Ape. Heck, Blaze has slightly better bulk and much more offensive power, but that didn't put it in OU. NPApe may be able to keep a foot in OU, but Blaze will outclass Ape as a mixed wall breaker, its most popular set.

Who would run Agility on a speed based Blaziken if after one boost your basically faster than anything anyway. And NP Ape is still a force to reckonned with. I'm pretty sure even if Blaziken's got the speed, NP Ape will still remain one of the best special sweepers in the game.

HP Grass will take care of Swampert, and while it won't OHKO Hippowdon, he still won't like taking one.

My analysis: Blaziken will take Infernape's place as a wall breaker/mixed sweeper. Ape has Grass Knot and Nasty Plot. Important, yes. But Blaziken will have more speed after just one turn, 16 more Base Atk, and 6 more Base SpA. Call it bias, but it's facts.

I would agree with that. My point was that Ape's not going to drop dead just because of Blaziken's return. Hell, I love the starters of Generation 3 to death and would love to survive next generation in OU slots (Though Sceptile's dwindling). But I do also love Infernape. And just an FYI, HP Grass is **** compared to an NP Grass Knot, which hurt anything that's relatively heavy that doesn't resist it. Now that that's out of the way, I will say that Blaziken is a cool pokemon and I'll welcome it back to the metagame with open arms. But I still love Ape too. And besides, those damage calcs above already tell that Blaziken could be quite broken.

Just remember that DampPert can't have Stealth Rock.

But just the fact you cannot explode on it makes it a helluva lot more powerful. Also, couldn't you just do a breeding chain to get stealth Rock onto it?

Perversity will be interesting on Jaroda (Grass starter) since it has Leaf Storm and its Sp.Atk will increase instead of decrease when it uses it.

It could be cool but that means it can't use stuff live Agility. It could be interesting in double Battles tough.

Also, Unburden Sceptile is interesting.

That is all.

 

[Blue Harvest]

I'm sure the items will all be in the new game. Not trading items over is likely to prevent mass TM hording, since they are supposed to be more valuable in B/W (reusable).

Ditto is going to be OU this generation. Holy s***. His new ability Eccentric lets him instantly Transform just by switching in. Now give him Choice Scarf and max HP and..

BAM. You have the best revenge killer in all of Pokemon. HP EVs gives him about as much HP as a 4 EV base 77 Poke. It has as much speed as the opponent + a Choice Scarf. Not terrible, especially compared to many of the sweepers like that dreaded Ononono-Dragon with 147 base attack. In fact, f*** HIM. Let his f***** Dragon *** get to +6 Dragon Dances. Just let it kill something and bring Scarf Ditto in for a revenge kill. Now you've got a +6/+6 Scarfed Onono with 7 more base HP.

Oh, what about Infernape? Lucario? Tyranitar? Gyarados? Ghost Candle? Heatran? Electivire / Motor Drive / Lightningrod / Volt Absorb? Salamence? Garchomp? Kingdra? Magnezone? Dugtrio? Gengar? The list goes on and on.

Not to mention it can copy things like Forretress and Skarmory, stealing their entry hazards should your minelayer be dead. As I said before it can also revenge kill practically anything that boosts itself and not just kill it, but also turn the revenge kill into a sweep.

Awesome.