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Drummer Hoff - OU Belly Drum + Stall

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Hauntershadow92, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    So I started this local league at my college, and I wanted to make a team I can use throughout that required some sort of gimmick or something really fun. I remembered back to the good old days of DPP when I created a pretty damn successful Belly Drum team focused around Charizard. Unfortunately, Charizard is not nearly as viable anymore with all the priority and SR. (I also never updated the OP for that thread, so there are no changes to look at :p) So, here is what I came up with:

    *Spoiler for your convience*
    ;264; ;132; ;113; ;478; ;472;;073;
    I started off with Linoone. At first I wanted Quick Feet + Belly Drum, but apparently that was illegal or something. So I ended up with Gluttony. Ditto was my revenge killer / late game sweeper / fodder. I ended up using it mostly against Tentacruels for some odd reason. I threw Chansey in because I wanted Wish support and something to help around with taking hits. Froslass helped out with Spikes and Spin Blocking. I also kept her around to take out notable threats. Gliscor and Tentacruel formed a third part of my defensive trio.

    ;080;;132; ;113; ;478; ;472;:591:
    Linoone couldn't get it off. It died to everything. So I saw the potential of Slowbro. Slack Off + Regenerator really looked to help out in the long run. Amoongus replaced Tentacruel for reasons unknown. I'm not really sure why haha.

    ;080; ;113; ;472;;073;;227;;302;
    The final incarnation of the team. I opted for a Stall team that, once the threats are incapacitated and weakened, Slowbro comes in and Belly Drums. I cover all of the entry hazards and Sableye spin blocks and causes massive headaches.

    There are a few rules that need to be considered when rating this:
    1. I am not allowed to use legendaries or Rotom. I would love to use a Heatran, as Scizor kind of gives me slight problems, but I can't use legends.

    2. Must be breedable in 5th Gen. I don't have access to any previous generations so I can't get those. That means Chansey, unfortunately, can't get Wish. Sad face.

    3. My team is revolved around Belly Drum, respect that. Oh and the team is a reference to the children's book "Drummer Hoff"

    So without further ado, my team:
    ;080; ;113; ;472;;073;;227;;302;

    Hoff (Slowbro) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 138 HP / 252 Atk / 118 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Slack Off
    - Aqua Tail
    - Return

    A pretty standard BellyBro. Aqua Tail + Return has near perfect coverage and hits HARD. Slack Off and Regenerator are the main reasons I chose Slowbro over the likes of Snorlax. I can Belly Drum and still safely switch out and do it again. This has been clutch. I will be honest, he doesn't get to see the daylight often, but when he does, it throws the opponenet for a loop.

    Parridge (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock

    This is Chansey. I opted against Wish as I do not have access to it. I also can not get Seimic Toss, so that is not an option either. She is complete setup fodder, but there is not much I really see myself doing without her. She is great support and takes Special hits like a boss. Toxic is there to prevent too long sweeps from opponents. Stealth Rock is there for residual damage for all the switches I plan on making. Which I do by the way.

    Farrell (Tentacruel) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 240 Def / 252 HP / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Protect
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald

    Tentacruel provides spin support and toxic spikes clean up. Spinning is not the greatest requirement, as I am using Slowbro, but it can't hurt to keep the extra damage out of there. TSpikes are fairly obvious and Protect for stall.

    Chowder (Hippowdon) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Slack Off
    - Roar
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang

    This was originally a Gliscor. However, Gliscor was not really adding much to the team. Hippowdon, while hurting most of my members with Sand, provides another layer to stall with the aforementioned sand. I chose Roar > Stealth Rocks because Chansey already has rocks and Roar helps rack up the damage.

    Border (Skarmory) (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    Pretty self explanitory. It forms the age-old SkarmBliss core. Whirlwind + Spikes racks up damage while Brave Bird and Roost keep me on my toes. I opted for Shed Shell because of Magnezone. I've gotten plenty of Magnezones cornered by switching in Gliscor on their cocky Thunderbolts.

    Bammer (Sableye) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 128 SDef / 6 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Taunt
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover

    Ah Sableye. Probably one of my favorite Pokemon of all time. I used to run Foul Play, but it never really saw much use. This thing is a beast. I've shut so many Pokemon down with him alone. It is so awesome to ALWAYS safely switch into a Reuniclus and not worry at all. No one seems to remember Sableye is immune to both Psychic AND Fighting. Heh. I use Sub to scout and stall the Will-o-wisp damage. Also functions as a great spinblocker, netting me a very funny curseout in one match followed by a D/C thereafter. Lulz.

    Overall comments:
    Basically, this team is a Stall core at heart. You have TentaScor and Skarm Bliss, both of which complement each other perfectly. The goal of this team is to get the opponent confused and switching a lot. After all the damage is done, Slowbro switches in on something that will switch up and sets up. This sometimes happens early or late, but I have never gotten a full on sweep. That is ok by me, because the team works exceptionally well even without Slowbro. I also love being yelled at that I take the fun out of the game with this kind of team. People hate it when you outpredict them. It is fun to watch.

    Threat List:
    I can't really truely handle it. Nothing hits it hard enough to scare it off and it uses half my team for set-up fodder. Since the league I'm playing in doesn't seem to be too competitive, I don't see this as a problem. But if I want to keep this team for real competitive use, something to handle this would be great.

    While this isn't as big of a threat, it OHKOs Slowbro 100% of the time. Gliscor and Chansey can handle it, but only if it stays in on Chansey.

    I think that is about it. I've shut down many Pokemon with this team and Sableye really destroys physical sweepers. Yup.

    Constructive criticism is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  2. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Slowbro is completely walled by Jellicent, just saying that.
  3. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    Yeah, I'm very well aware by that. But Jellicent poses pretty much no threat to this team otherwise and is fairly easy to get rid of. Do you perhaps have another move I could use on Slowbro over Return?

    Edit, I've narrowed it down to a few choices:
    -Ice Punch
    -Zen Headbutt

    There are only 2 Pokemon who can effectively deal with Slowbro after he has Belly Drum off:
    -Choice Band Ferrothorn

    Zen Headbutt is a good choice, I think. Ice Punch is also pretty damn good. Damn....Of course, with SR and Spikes and TSpikes, pretty much everything falls. Hm....Opinions?
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
  4. Ghosts of the Forums

    Ghosts of the Forums Who Ya Gonna Call?

    I don't know where to start. I guess I'll start by saying, why is slowbro's nature serious, instead of something helpful like adamant?
  5. Stymie

    Stymie powered by insanity

    Yeah from mem. serious lowers speed, is that to counter trick room? I think not considering you said belly drum is the foundation of this team.

    Toxic spikes, toxic Blisey and toxic orb fling may not be super compatible, plus you have more status inducing moves, scald and will-o-wisp, i get that it's a stall team but I think it is at least overkill on the poisoners.
  6. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    Uh, that is a typo haha. It is Adamant. I'll go fix that.

    I think TSpikes are important, and I can't seem to figure out what else can go on Chansey as I have no access to Seismic Toss. I guess I could figure out a more reasonable Gliscor set.
  7. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    you know, theres this new thing called trading to get different sets of pokemon....

    honestly, i have no idea where to begin. this strategy would never work in the competitive environment. If youre going to use stall, it'd be best to not go full-on.

    First, change slowbro to a Defensive Set.

    Slowbro @Leftovers
    - Regenerator -
    248 hp/ 252 def/ 8 speed
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Fire blast/ Slack Off
    - filler

    been a while since i used slowbro, lol.

    anyway, this'll make you far better than using....belly drum slowbro....it'll also help you with almost all physical attackers, and provide a great pivot point with this and my next suggestion....

    Amoongus @Black sludge
    - Regenerator -
    252 hp/ 28 SpA/ 228 SpD
    - Giga Drain
    - Spore
    - Clear smog
    - HP Ice/ Sludge Bomb

    Between this and slowbro, your opponent will have a hard time getting past this core, due to its extreme sexiness. Use this over anything.

    With that, you lack something to take out dragons well, as well as an sr setter. for this reason, i suggest donphan>gliscor

    Donphan @Leftovers
    - Sturdy -
    248 hp/ 80 atk/ 176 def/ 4 SpD
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin

    This little beauty will allow you to better take out hydreigon, moxiemence, and mixed variants of dragonite out very well. It also fills almost every other niche you need filled haha. the ev spread allows it to 2hko haxorus after sr damage, and does almost nothing to its bulk.

    ill finish the rest later, as its late, but this team really needs worked on, at least imo.
  8. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Uh, you're kind of missing the point.
    Sableye has priority will-o-wisp, though. And Chansy laughs at the latis, unless you're up against a rare substitute set.
  9. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    That is great and all, but you can't breed it Seismic Toss onto a Chansey and I prefer to have my own OTs. So whatever.

    It works and still works. I have won plenty of battles with this. Have you even ever tried this strategy?

    No. I stated explicitly that I want Belly Drum Slowbro. Explicitly.

    Thank you!

    I've tried Amoongus, and it didn't quite cut it. It didn't do too well on this team. Thanks though.

    Skarmory takes STAB CB Outrages like a champ and can Whirlwind them out and roost off the damage. I don't really have a Dragon problem. But, Donphan does provide some help. I don't really need two spinners though, and Donphan doesn't really do much other than Spin. TentaScor is a much better Core than what Donphan would provide. I'll test it, but I don't think it will do much to help the team.

    And honestly, you are wrong. I have tested this team and it DOES work. It takes a bit more prediction and switching to truly see the potential, but it is there. And like I said, the team isn't dependent on BellyBro. BellyBro is dependent on the team. I'll only going to really take your Donphan suggestion seriously as your suggestion to change Slowbro is not helpful. Thanks!
  10. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    you can just get one with wish/seismic toss already on it from a trade shop....

    lol? so you prefer aesthetics over usefulness? ok then

    whatever. just know this team will never reach its full potential then.

    there was a reason i didnt post an entire rate....the rest i was going to get to tomorrow....

    im sorry, but Bellybro is a terrible set, especially as its walled by so many things. and as literally the only offensive prescence on your team, this team fails hard against hyper offensive teams, who just set up and sweep right through you.

    SubDDGyarados runs right through you, especially moxie variants.

    Non-choiced moxiemence also do the same, with sr up.

    as you say, scizor.

    rain offense really hurts you, with all the hydro pump and hurricane spammers out.

    and since the first 2 pokemon usually carry lum berry, you cant even burn them reliably.

    i did respect that you wanted to use it. however, i also felt the need to improve your team. if you cant respect that then i might as well not have posted.

    no ive never used this team. but there are just too many holes in bellybro for my to even fathom how it succeeds supposedly.
  11. Miror

    Miror Seeker of the Blood Staff Member Moderator

    This is a pretty solid team considering you're using BD Slowbro lol. Anyhow, this team looks like it would have trouble with Nasty Plot Thundurus-T (or even a bit with Specs or DoubleDance). Chansey is 2HKO'd by Thundy-T, and the rest don't fare well at all. In fact, without Chansey, your team falls to most of the more powerful special sweepers, as the rest of your team mainly focuses on Defense. The fact that most boosting Thundurus-Ts also carry a Lum Berry does not help you any, as Chansey's Toxic would be a complete waste. Here are some calcs for a +2 Thundurus-T for your team:

    252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 138 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 512-606 (140.27 - 166.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So basically, even at +0 Thundurus-T can kill you, forcing you to either switch out to the obvious choice of Chansey or stay in and get set up on.

    +2 252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 362-426 (51.42 - 60.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Though he'll have to hit you, 2 hits is really impressive in taking out Chansey, meaning if it predicts its switch in, Chansey doesn't survive. Otherwise, your options are either to Toxic (which Lum Berry will deal with) or Seismic Toss, which 3HKOs Thundurus-T. Essentially meaning Chansey is doomed if Thundurus has gotten a boost, which can be obtained by scaring out things like Slowbro or Skarmory.

    252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 366-432 (100.54 - 118.68%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Tentacruel is also set up fodder, and gets OHKO'd.

    252 SpA Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 420-496 (118.64 - 140.11%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Gliscor will be KO'd, but isn't really set up fodder as much as it can attack back.

    252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 566-668 (169.46 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Although Skarm has Sturdy, if it has taken any damage at all, no matter how minimal, it will die. Stealth Rock would be the most likely to knock off enough of its health for Thundy-T to get past Sturdy. Then, of course, your opponent might get lucky, paralyze you with Thunder, and end up with you immobilized for a turn, which wouldn't be the greatest but knowing Pokemon, it could happen.

    252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Sableye: 255-300 (83.88 - 98.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, or guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rock
    +2 252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Sableye: 507-597 (166.77 - 196.38%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Sableye has the best chance (other than Chansey) to survive Thundurus-T, as long as there aren't hazards and it hasn't boosted. Otherwise, Sableye will be KOd, and can't do too much in return.

    So, if this was tl;dr, basically all of your team is OHKOd with Stealth Rock on the field, other than Chansey, which will not get rid of Thundurus-T. Thundy-T outspeeds your entire team with no speed boosts, so can take out your team at its leisure. My suggestion would be probably to use Specially Defensive Hippowdon if you can get it (252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef w/Impish nature), as it is 2HKO'd when Thundurus-T is at +2 (whether SR is up doesn't affect it). It fulfills the same role as Gliscor basically, other than Flinging its item. Hippowdon would also provide alternate weather, allowing you to force Thundurus to switch out if you switch in something it can only hit hard with Thunder (namely Slowbro) which would then allow you to set up with Slowbro on the turn it switches out. It would also provide useful coverage against other threats such as Salamence, which even at +1 only 2HKOs. Hope this helps, and I like the gimmicky feel to your team ^_^

    If you read the OP, you'd understand that 1) this isn't a particularly competitive team, used only for a local league that "requires a gimmick of some sort," so even though I agree that BD Slowbro is going to be bad on a broad competitive scale, it's really not going to be a problem for a local college tournament. 2) I think the whole point of the RMT was to get help with the other aspects of the team, as he was planning on keeping CB Slowbro as the tournament requires a gimmick. Your rate didn't particularly address anything he'd be in favor of using, other than possibly Donphan. CB Slowbro was set in stone, and his team building process also shows what he's already attempted to use (Amoonguss being one that you posted, but he'd already rejected). So, even though this team won't "reach its full potential," it doesn't even have to\, judging by most of the Wifi players i've faced at my college. Essentially, look over the OP before you post so your rates will be more useful ^_^
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  12. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    Hmmm. I've only faced a single Thunderus-T so far, and I was able to handle it. But I can se what you are saying. I noticed Special sweepers can hurt pretty bad. But isn't Hippowdon going to just end up annoying me as well with Sand?
  13. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    Wouldn't thundy-t fall under your no legends rule though?....

    i assume its a rule in your college league.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  14. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    Yup. But I also said that I will be using this team competitively as well. So it can't hurt to look at all possibilities.
  15. Miror

    Miror Seeker of the Blood Staff Member Moderator

    True, though even if Thundy-T can't be used, then other Pokemon still threaten it. The residual damage from sand from Hippodown shouldn't be too much of a problem as all of your Pokemon either have a healing item to offset it or can heal it off with a recovery move (or are immune to it of course).

    I don't really see anything on your team that can KO Scizor, however Skarmory stop it in its tracks. If it's SD, it can get Whirlwinded out. Jolteon doesn't bother Chansey at all, so it should be easy to KO eventually with Seismic Toss (if it stays in). Also, Hippowdon can handle Jolteon, as Specs boosted HP Ice only 2HKOs 19.14% of the time and any of the moves Hippowdon had would do decent damage against it. The to address counters TCR mentioned, SubDD Gyarados has to be at +2 to even 2HKO Skarmory, and Skarm can just Whirlwind it out. It can also only 2HKO Chansey at +2, only has a 30% chance to OHKO Sableye at +2, and 2HKOs Tentacruel with Bounce at +2, which is not exactly what I call sweeping his entire team. Mence has troubles with Hippowdon, Chansey, and Skarm (not so much Skarm if mixed, not so much Chansey if Physical). Sableye can also burn the physical variants, and as his team is mostly defensive this should help. Rain could cause problems (which Hippowdon could help to nullify), and most of the good Hurricane users are legends and thus he doesn't have to worry about them as of yet.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  16. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    ok, so what i dont understand is why you cant use this team for your league, and a revised one, that filled all the crinkles out for comp.
  17. Miror

    Miror Seeker of the Blood Staff Member Moderator

    The rules of the CRMT forum say nothing about the team having to be geared towards a certain competitive style, so the team doesn't have to be one that will go on PO/PS! and have to face all the known world on the ladder. The "crinkles" for CRMT as you call them only focus on having complete descriptions of the team and why the pokemon were chosen (and its good to have pictures). (Of course, I have no idea if I'm interpreting what you said right, it was phrased a little weirdly)
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  18. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    i was more talking about how he was reluctant to use heatran to stop scizor (who you pointed out isnt as big a threat as it seems) because of the no legends rule. however, that rule doesnt apply to standard competitive play, so i dont see why he cant switch up his team depending on who and when hes battling.

    also, gyarados may only be able to 2hko tenta, sableye, and chans at +2, but if it gets a sub up on any of those pokes, they literally cant do anything to it. sableye and chansey are complete set up bait behind a sub, and tenta can only hope for scald.

    and you cant really factor in hippowdon since that statement was made before your suggested change.
  19. Miror

    Miror Seeker of the Blood Staff Member Moderator

    Aha, your point makes a little more sense now lol, and I think he just wants this team edited for the tourney at this point and may make further changes afterwards. And as I said with SubDD Gyarados, Skarm is the best option to stop it, and thus the first thing anyone in their right mind would switch in if it appeared. I was just saying the others not getting KOd easily as examples of how Gyara doesn't sweep through his team as you said earlier, I doubt they'd be able to do too much (other than Sableye who could Taunt and then burn Gyara if it tries to switch in on it). I mentioned Hippowdon being able to take care of those counters as a possible incentive to use it over Gliscor. And in my post, I never listed as Hippowdon as the solitary option for any of the counters you proposed, other than helping to stop rain, so even without Hippowdon he still has options for those counters.
  20. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    I'm not reluctant haha. Its just, the more you use a team, the better you are with it. Why change things up if I can handle myself pretty well with what I have? I posted the RMT for major changes against threats I clearly can't handle. I clearly can handle Dragons. Amoongus doesn't add anything to the team, and so forth. And honestly, how many SubDD Gyaras are there out there? I've seen absolutely none in the many battles I've had on Showdown. But, I also don't see it as a threat, unless SubDD runs thunderbolt, which I highly doubt.

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