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Duuuddee... Pass the blunt...

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by R4GEKILL!!!, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    It's unjust to restrict activities unless they cause harm to other people, though. That goes against the very idea of freedom that my country (the U.S.) and many others stand for. That's why comparisons are relevant, we need to draw a line in what's acceptable for public use so that the more dangerous activities are banned for people's safety while the less dangerous ones are available for those that want it.

    Who cares? If people want to destroy themselves for a cheap high, let them. So long as they're not harming anyone else. The purpose of laws are to keep people safe, if it's not a danger to others, there's no reason to ban it.
     
  2. Doux

    Doux Well-Known Member

    I never said I wanted to ban it. I am in support of it being legalized so that people could use it as long as they were being taxed for it. People will be doing it regardless of whether or not it's legalized, so we may as well legalize it and stimulate the economy a bit in the process.

    I understand that it's a matter of freedom and to reiterate, I believe marijuana should be legal as long as it's taxed the same way that cigarettes are. I just resent those who choose to do it.



    I'd like to hear, though, about where you think the line should be drawn in terms of legality of drugs. I've heard a lot of different ones, and my personal thought is that alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana should be legal and taxed.

    However, psychedelics stronger than marijuana, opioids, stimulants like amphetamines, cocaine or crack, bath salts, heroin...all need to be outlawed entirely, for, as you said, safety of others.
     
  3. Spock

    Spock Live Long & Prosper

    better drug education and preventing a black market is the answer to solving a nation's drug issues. when portugal droped all criminality of possessing narcotics, drug issues (ie teenager usage, drug related AIDS infections, deaths) along with drug demand shrunk remarkably. outlawing them does the inverse of saving lives; legalizing them and dealing with the cause, not the symptom, of depression, is far better.
     
  4. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    TBH, I don't know enough about drugs to give a good answer. But I will say this, outlawing alcohol probably wouldn't be a good idea for economic and legal reasons. Remember the Prohibition? Yeah, I can't see that ending well. Anyway, I think for now that's a good place to draw the line, everything more dangerous than alcohol should be illegalized and everything less than or as dangerous should be legal.
     
  5. Celestial Moth

    Celestial Moth Bug-Type Deity

    I agree with you 100% ay, the vast majority of intellectuals,great thinkers and spiritualists aren't as they are, because they smoke ganja. Though I'm sure some did
    and some have found knowledge, information and wisdom through the controlled used of ganja. That has to be respected i feel. One small yet grand example is Lord Shiva. Mainly recognized within the hindu community, though this being whom ones existed in this reality, was known through the recorded history of his life, to smoke ganja while meditating in the Himalayas for very long periods at a time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  6. Thomas Elliot

    Thomas Elliot I AM HUSH

    The debate always will be in those areas where marijuana is not legal, then what about other psychedelic drugs such as MDMA or LSD, why should these not be legalized?

    If you want to legalize marijuana, the most important hurdle you would need to get over is how the substance would be controlled.
    I can walk into a gas station and buy blunt papers or even buy pipes that could be used to smoke marijuana. How is this legal? Because those items are specifically recognized as being only for tobacco use only, and it has to be noted as such.

    The same thing goes for ADHD medicine, which those of you on Ritalin/Adderall/Vyvanse/Wellbutrin etc. etc. understand how controlled that substance is and how difficult it is to get.
    I went to re-fill my prescription early for my medicine and the pharmacy refused to fill it because it had not been 30 days.
    If I had run out of pills, I would have to re-visit my doctor and explain to her in person why I needed more pills and that my pharmacy would not give them to me.
    She would have to speak to the pharmacy and give her okay to allow them to re-fill my prescription.

    Why is it like this?
    Because people have abused the system and they have had to implement strict controls.
     
  7. Luthor

    Luthor Well-Known Member

    you can already go in and by blunt papers(they themselves are not illegal the sellers just have to claim they are for something else like a large cigarette, hence why extra large papers are sold anfd for that matter bongs ar enot illegal either)
     
  8. totallyawesome

    totallyawesome Pokemon Lover

    All drugs should be legalized. No exceptions. If people want to enjoy some weed or destroy their lives with heroin, go for it.
     
  9. Lolsgod

    Lolsgod Sexy Trainer

    why? that makes no sense
     
  10. penguinofhonor

    penguinofhonor Bay Watcher

    Most "life destroying" effects of drugs are either from awful quality due to being produced on the street or from the high price due to the danger of selling an illegal substance.

    Legalization solves both of these problems. Legal heroin might still be awful, but it's not going to do as much damage as illegal heroin.
     
  11. Celestial Moth

    Celestial Moth Bug-Type Deity


    Please dont put ganja on the same page as Heroin...
    I agree with you to a degree though, because if it was regulated and all the rest of it.. It would be somewhat less dangerous however it would be more available and more people would be susceptible to it..
    That can apply to all substances though and marijuana is somewhat no different, though the key distinction between the 2 and why you can not
    simply compare one with the other is that ganja does not, even by association, kill nearly as much people as other drugs or activities.
    Even if one were to be basing their argument on the more legislative side of things, that is to say their basing their argument on the relative associations with
    ganja, mental problems,bodily effects and or its effects in scociety, it STILL, has more of a positive effect and positive repercussions than many of the other recreational things
    that are currently being exploited by the government for revenue.
     
  12. ~CallOfTheIndie~

    ~CallOfTheIndie~ Now on vinyl

    Though I don't smoke any kind of "smokable" objects, I don't judge those who do. It's their choice if they wanna smoke, but it doesn't make them a bad person.
    I've heard about the positives about weed from many different sources, and it honestly seems more harmless than other noted drugs. Drug abuse in general is supposed to kill you slowly; cigarette smoking contains chemicals that causes cancer, alcohol can cause cirrhosis if you drink excessively, narcotics are known to cause mental and bodily distortions.....but as far as weed goes, I only know that it stimulates your appetite and calms you. And ironically enough, cigarettes and alcohol are legal, whereas weed isn't. Many deaths have been caused by smoking and drinking, but there isn't a record of a marijuana-related death.
    What's also kind of funny is that there are products containing hemp, which comes from the plant. We can use these products, but not the plant in its entirety. In a way, it sort of contradicts the marijuana ban.
    Again, I wouldn't join the bandwagon because it's something that never really got my attention. It's up to the government if they wanna legalize a seemingly harmless plant, and see to it that smoking and alcohol are the real killers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  13. penguinofhonor

    penguinofhonor Bay Watcher

    I wasn't associating it. totallyawesome did in the original statement that I was defending.
     
  14. Celestial Moth

    Celestial Moth Bug-Type Deity


    Though he was simple being redundant, which by a response by you gives his post meaning. Though i see your point.
    The fact is though, that their still are many proven positive effects that are lesser known by the public because of its
    adverse associations with abusers and or other illicit substances.
    For example, it's been proven theoretically and physically that ingesting ganja can open up cognitive pathways on a neuronic level,
    in which would otherwise remain shut.
    The Cannabinoids present in ganja effect the brain in very similar way and basically in the same manner in which isometric and Isochronic tones as well as monaural and binaural beats stimulate the under-developed and or unused parts of the brain, which are well known in many communities to encourage and stimulate
    the parts of the mind and brain in which conduct "psychic" and or paranormal behavior.

    This small example of a cognitive function being effected in such a profound manner is due to the cannabinoid receptors in our brain in which link directly to some of the Cannabinoids produced by ganja, which would further ones speculation as to why our brains are directly biologically linked to this substance.

    Though regardless of that speculation the fact in which is, that ganja as a substance can further ones spirituality and or understand of the universe, remains. Theirs obviously many reasons as to why ganja is still currently illegal in many places and one is undoubtedly it's link and or association with other substances and the effects of that association itself. Because the main negative stigma in which ganja has been attached to is that, it will cause an array of mental problems. Though this is mainly because it is abused, along with the joint use of other consciousness altering substances, in which create a strain and abnormalities in the cognitive pathways in the brain.

    So if we want Ganja to be legalized and the truth about it to be realize, weather you smoke ganja or not ( as i do not) you have to stop associating it with any other substance, in any way! Because it is simply not like any other substance.
     
  15. penguinofhonor

    penguinofhonor Bay Watcher

    None of these effects are anywhere near unique. THC and other psyhcoactive chemicals were evolved in plants because if you dope up an animal eating your plant, it's easier to hunt. Therefore, the plants that had chemicals that affected our brain indirectly killed their predators and survived longer. You can see similar effects in shrooms and any other plant-based psychoactive drug. Heck, even animals can do it. Have you heard of psychoactive toads?

    And of course it opens pathways in the brain that wouldn't otherwise be opened. That's why it's a drug. Every other drug that affects the brain does this, be it LSD or heroin.

    Marijuana isn't some magical drug that's better and different than everything else. Your near-worship of the stuff is the kind of attitude that makes people unable to look at other drugs objectively or treat them responsibly and safely.
     
  16. Celestial Moth

    Celestial Moth Bug-Type Deity


    No i'm quite certain that many of these effects are quite unique to this substance... Yes you could take a bunch of other stuff to perhaps attempt to mimic the unique state of conciseness brought on due to the ingestion of thc though you would have some very very negative psychological results.
    If your attempting to discredit what i said by re-directing my words into an evolutionary adaptational point of view,your thoroughly mis-comprehending what i said.
    I don't dispute that beings small and large can develop an adaptation ( of any kind) towards another substance due to that substance and or being excreting a substance used primarily for defense. And though this is not by any means relevant i feel to this argument. Regardless, it would take millions of years ( or pre-meditated genetic engineering) for the human brain to develop the specific neurological functions that are the cannabinoid receptors in which directly and ONLY link to some of the cannabinoids present in ganja, in an attempt to harness what those cannabinoids actually are....

    Though LSD and even SHROOMS are somewhat similer is its own respective rights when it comes to the capabilities of mental and inter-dimensional expantion, you simple CAN NOT link them to ganja because of the EXTREAMLY and almost haynes results and or reactions that people get from ingesting those substances.
    Hell on that note, people have even ( including myself ) proclaimed that they experience telepathical communications while on those substances with other people.
    Sure their may be documented experimentation that even prove subjects mental coherence is elevated at an alternate perspective or even that the subjects neurological pathways that were previously dormant were stimulated. But even those tests and studies are rendered obsolete due to the fact that the mind can not handle that type of constant stimulation.
    The results of the stimulation of under-developed aspects of the human brain created by the use of LSD or Shroom, can be so detrimental to a humans well-being that they sometimes want to kill themselfs...

    So again your comparison of ganja to any other substance in regards to a cognitive tool of neurotic expatiation, is completely negative due to the fact that unlike any other substance, you can control THC due to what it is, alot more than you can ANY other substance.



    hahaha, it's not even closely my fault or nor is my view even relatively responsible for people not being about to responsibly administer substances or even recreational use them.Some people get addicted to substances easily because, they have a low amount of dopamine being produced in their brains in comparison to others. That is to say, that when someone whom is biological pre-disposed to the addictive tendencies of an addict, consumes or participates in any recreational activity in which rapidly increases their dopamine
    production, they will thoroughly enjoy those activities. If you cant understand that, its because they don't generate enough dopamine normally, and so that substance or activity is enough compensation that they are wiling to stick with it to feel happy.


    So given your able to comprehend what i present you with, its obvious that nothing in comparison could be remotely compared to ganja as a spiritual or mental tool.
    People have been using such a tool for spiritual needs for decades.
    Lord Shiva himself smoked ganja on banks of the ganges and in the Himalayes.
    Yogi's of all walks of life have also been using this tool of meditation for decades and those whom chose to use it also produce profound and indisputable knowledge through the use of it in their yogic practices.
    Sure not everyone may desire ganja as a tool for meditation, but billions of people know why other do and billions of people use ganja because of its spiritual connotations.

    Nothing compares to ganja and my mind being able to see its potential has nothing to do with the way others perceive it as it is their life.
    Though you simply can not deny the spiritual and mental positivity produced by ganja because it eclipses the negative.
    Your ordasity to attempt to undermine thousands of years of meditational techniques from many lands and countries with a couple of words is frankly rather embarrassing and disgraceful to people like me who don't smoke ganja.

    If you are mentally coherent enough to comprehend anything that i've said you will understand that your dead wrong. And these are just a few of the reasons and implications as to why ganja should be legalized.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  17. penguinofhonor

    penguinofhonor Bay Watcher

    I was discrediting your implication that our brain's cannabinoid receptors are evidence of a unique and/or mysterious connection between the brain and marijuana. Upon further research, I don't even have to make evolutionary speculation because the reason the mamalian brain has cannabinoid receptors is because mammals naturally produce cannabinoids.

    The rest of your argument is based either in agreement with your religion or belief in telepathy, so I can't really respond to it since I believe neither.

    Thank you for questioning my "mental coherence" repeatedly throughout this post. I'd appreciate it if you didn't do it again.
     
  18. Celestial Moth

    Celestial Moth Bug-Type Deity

    The only thing you've been able to discredit or i should say summarize.. Is that other organisms on this planet, in this case mamals, also have an adaptation with different types of cannabinoids...
    Further more... The page in which you selected to show, simply suggests that that internal cannabinoid production ACTIVATES the very cannabinoid receptors that receive
    and conduct the external cannabinoids being introduced into the body.. That by no means suggests that the brain or other known organisms can produce the identical cannabinoids present in ganja. If anything that only prooves that we are all biologically linked..
    Also now that i'm thinking about it.. You yourself materialized the subject in which the biochemistry on an evolutionary level was compared with humans and plants..
    I could say a few things as to why you came out with that thought to begin with, but regardless i wont because it's irrelevant ( which i kept on mentioning in my previous posts..)

    I really do apologize for behaving in a condescending manner as it is rather immature, though i can't help but subconsciously appearing that way when others post things , like you did without really knowing much about the subject.. Though i appreciate you looking up a few things which you evidently did do, judging by your link.

    NO its not at all.. My "argument is not based of my "religion" as i am not religious, i am spiritual..
    Also i provided one little line about telepathy and you again make another assumption on somthing, this time that my argument is based upon it...
    The only thing i was referring to with telepathy is that external stimuli introduced into the brain, in the form of lsd may have the potential to stimulate the under-developed parts
    of the human brain which are present in everyone.. Why did i suggest that? Because, some of the cannabinoids ONLY present in ganja can replicate that simulation without being as harmful as LSD.
    See now again..I'm coming of as condescending because your making assumptions about things your not quite sure of and that's not my fault...

    My argument in which you by no means discredited, because of you provided an invalid summary of my topic, is still as valid as it ever was... I kept on saying in my posts that ganja is a meditational tool and i woulda thought that you'd be able to see that.. As it is what my argument is based upon..
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  19. golduck#1

    golduck#1 Well-Known Member

    Being a regular user, or ex regular user, It's hard for me to give an answer. On the legal hand there's some good points. It does less damage to bodies and or other people compared to even cigarettes and alcohol, it helps people with medical problems and it just isn't dangerous at all. However on the illegal hand I do see some good points as well. While it doesn't affect you as much as alcohol, it still does change your response times and responses in general. After having a little to smoke even the day before I notice I am a bit slower than normnal (maybe a 0.5 second off but thats all it takes), it make people lazy and would definately change the world as we know it if it would to be legal.

    I do think the world makes a bigger deal on it that what it actually is however that doesn't warrant that it should be legal. I honestly think that if it were to become to legal to everybody and not just medical users then the world would not be as efficient as it is today. There would be much less motives and much less stuff to do. I'm not saying people still won't try and find cures for stuff or that we still wont search the universe but there will be a lot more people just wanting to get high because of the restricitons it would still bring. By that I mean that I could still see drug tests and RBTS still around the world and that would scare people off. Drug tests for jobs would turn people off doing what they wanna do, because once you get high a couple of times you won't have a better feeling. The whole world is just so cool and everything is more mysterious and confusing than ever before that you'll wanna keep getting high because hinestly everything is just so much better, music, food, heck even shoppoing for shoes would be better high. So once people got thsat high feeling a couple times and realise that they can't become something they wanna do in four years after they finish studying they might just go to a job where it doesn't require a drug test and still gets them money for there ganja.

    Another point I just remembered though is that if it were to be legal world wide then the world would save 100's of millions of dollars on trying to seize it and would make crime rates go down a lot, easily. Imagine all the money that could be used for hospitals, schools heck even poverty would benefit from it. Hemp would work wonders for the world. So they is definately arguments for both. As much as I love weed and would love to smoke all day everyday without worrying about anything I just can't help but think that the world would be better off if it was just legal world wide for medical use and not for general use.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  20. lollygag

    lollygag Banned

    The only time marijuana is fine is if the person can be saved from a life of being addicted to it. I don't like seeing more unfortunate people die because they were addicted to crap. Drugs have no right to be legal. Do you honestly want to end up like Anna Nicole Smith or some other celebrity who died of an OD?

    Not to mention I don't buy the obsession that some people have with doing drugs. It's bad enough that people in the ghetto are fighting to the death to get drugs. And some of these drug dealers feel like they have no other purpose in life, so they resort to selling drugs. It's not funny to see people killing each other other drugs. Not to mention drug use is a surefire way to risk getting AIDS.

    I'm honestly surprised there's still morons who think weed is cool, after years of overly preachy political gadflies like Nancy Reagan drilling it into our heads. Drugs are bad. End of story.
     

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