Eevee and Sylveon! Encounters and Reunions!! (1194)

[Sham]

Eh what is “masculine”? Iris and Ash own the exact same species and and they have different… demeanors. Honestly would take anything as long as they have females battling again routinely

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Delphox: Am I a joke to you?
Pancham: Bruh

Pancham may be cute but he is so serious
Just look at the pic on my signature. Absolute idgaf energy.

 

[Decidueye23]

I don't get why people are saying that it's a bad thing that AG or BW didn't get any " fanservice " lol. If XY was treated the same way the former two were it would be a blessing, are you kidding? It's such an easy thing for me to prefer that nothing happened with Kalos versus what we got. Don't mention any of the significant XY characters at all. That's fine. Maybe bring back Diantha for the Masters 8, that's about it. Raihan should have been in the Masters 8 in place of Alain and Paul should have functioned as the gatekeeper for Ash.

And of course people will run the disingenuous " piece of cloth " crud till the ends of the earth and just blatantly ignore its significance in XY itself and to Serena. Why were SM fans so annoyed that JN didn't mention Ash's full title in the Masters 8? Shouldn't be that big of a deal since we know what happened with the tournament in Alola right? The episode with the two kids should have been enough " rep " for that no?

Not to mention the active retcon of a core part of XYZ with Ash-Greninja, the latter alone should just throw the whole thing in the trash.

There's no need for conspiratorial thinking about Tomiyasu hating XY. People using that line of argument just lose credibility. It's so easy to critique the XY episodes in JN because for the most part they're mediocre and the tangents about how much the staff hates Yajima are just self-inflicted wounds from people who are looking for specific people to blame when it's a systemic issue and has to do with how differently the direction in how SM/JN approached characters and storylines versus how XY did it.

Since you pointed out about actual discussion, i wanted to respond to your post in the thread for the episode. Yes, i do agree that the return of XY characters has not been handled well, all but serena in my opinion. And i will explain why as well, without calling you an XY fanboy, and other names that people have used.

First i agree with your statements about Alain.

Clemont and Bonnie, i dont really find their episodes great mostly because the Drasna battle was crap, but then i also dont thinkt hey could have done much more than, what they did with them in terms of story. Better execution? Sure.

Now, the serena episode. Here's how i look at it. At the end of XYZ serena professes her love, and ash kisses her back. Essentially sealing the deal as she is the one for ash, should it ever happen. There is no coming back from that. So whenever serena appeared, there is no way they would spend an entire episode without mentioning that, if the episode centered around Ash and her.

Now yes, one might argue that heck they shouls probably mention the confession, bur in most of these animes such stuff is left for the ending of the anime, whenever that might be. Which is why i rhought it was a smart move for her to interact with chloe given how they have had similar arcs interms of not having an immediete goal.

Now coming to the ribbon. It would have been nice, to see that, but the small nod to it, in her anklet. I understand the significance of it, but i also think the lack of it in her outfit shows that she has grown into someone who is actively focusing more on her present, while still choosinh to respect her past. That is shown with how much sje pretty much quotes ash to chloe.

And finally yes, i do agree that XY in general has been dome dirty, the erasure of serena from the flashback, the retcon of Ash greninja, the horrific drasna battle, and the dissimal potrayal of alain. These were absolutely horrible writing choices. Not to mention how little promotion serena got for her return.

 

[Sham]

and ash kisses her back.

Source and citation please?

 

[Decidueye23]

Source and citation please?

Well the fact that he didnt shove her back into the escalator????

 

[Sham]

Well the fact that he didnt shove her back into the escalator????

You know that it's possible just.... standing there right? She gave him a peck meaning that it wasn't required for him to make any motions. That's not kissing him back

He doesn't move forward towards her implying that he is reciprocating the kiss and kinda actually moves backwards slightly, although this is just most likely a slight movement due to being shocked

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Well the fact that he didnt shove her back into the escalator????

And let her fall? LMAO thats a pretty weak reasoning ngl, i doubt Ash's first reaction to being surprised kissed by his best friend in kalos would be to shove her off an escalator and injure her
Doesn't mean he kissed her back or reciprocated though, that's just a flimsy ground to tread on

 

[RafaSceptile]

Eyes. They tell the whole story.

They really don't. That's just your assumption

 

[Power Up]

Since you pointed out about actual discussion, i wanted to respond to your post in the thread for the episode. Yes, i do agree that the return of XY characters has not been handled well, all but serena in my opinion. And i will explain why as well, without calling you an XY fanboy, and other names that people have used.

First i agree with your statements about Alain.

Clemont and Bonnie, i dont really find their episodes great mostly because the Drasna battle was crap, but then i also dont thinkt hey could have done much more than, what they did with them in terms of story. Better execution? Sure.

Now, the serena episode. Here's how i look at it. At the end of XYZ serena professes her love, and ash kisses her back. Essentially sealing the deal as she is the one for ash, should it ever happen. There is no coming back from that. So whenever serena appeared, there is no way they would spend an entire episode without mentioning that, if the episode centered around Ash and her.

Now yes, one might argue that heck they shouls probably mention the confession, bur in most of these animes such stuff is left for the ending of the anime, whenever that might be. Which is why i rhought it was a smart move for her to interact with chloe given how they have had similar arcs interms of not having an immediete goal.

Now coming to the ribbon. It would have been nice, to see that, but the small nod to it, in her anklet. I understand the significance of it, but i also think the lack of it in her outfit shows that she has grown into someone who is actively focusing more on her present, while still choosinh to respect her past. That is shown with how much sje pretty much quotes ash to chloe.

And finally yes, i do agree that XY in general has been dome dirty, the erasure of serena from the flashback, the retcon of Ash greninja, the horrific drasna battle, and the dissimal potrayal of alain. These were absolutely horrible writing choices. Not to mention how little promotion serena got for her return.

I've extensively wrote what I think about the episode in two posts that you can read here and here.

During the two-week break, I've been rewatching XY/XYZ after watching this episode for the third or fourth time and I'm even more confident in my assertion that this episode really didn't do much for Serena's character that the tail end of XY didn't do. It would have been a fine episode, great even if some of my foundational critiques were addressed, but alas, JN is wholly mediocre so it is what it is.

I might write another large post here after finishing my rewatch.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I've extensively wrote what I think about the episode in two posts that you can read here and here.

During the two-week break, I've been rewatching XY/XYZ after watching this episode for the third or fourth time and I'm even more confident in my assertion that this episode really didn't do much for Serena's character that the tail end of XY didn't do. It would have been a fine episode, great even if some of my foundational critiques were addressed, but alas, JN is wholly mediocre so it is what it is.

I might write another large post here after finishing my rewatch.

Maybe if you start to ignore Amourshipping at least once and focus on the other aspects of Serena's character you will notice how amazing is this episode.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Eyes. They tell the whole story.

Suuuuure
Idk man, I dont mind when people use it as a 'hint' but when people use it as confirmation Ash likes her back or something, I cringe. I think it's a pretty normal reaction to have when you're kissed by a close friend and kissed for the first time in general in a non-creepy way, whether you have feelings or not
And the fact people use that as their 'main' reason Ash likes her back....just shows how much their 'relationship as a couple' and it's writing sucked. Now their relationship as friends or Serena's crush and their handling, it's a whole other debate Im not really interested in having considering what it devolves into, but when people claim it's a fact Ash has feelings for Serena or that they were portrayed as a good couple or a couple of any kind, I just cringe

 

[Kuzehiko]

One of the best Journeys episodes and this is overall one of the best returns in the Pokemon anime probably. Serena has really grown up, she feels totally different from the last episode of XY Serena.

 

[Shadao]

Suuuuure
Idk man, I dont mind when people use it as a 'hint' but when people use it as confirmation Ash likes her back or something, I cringe. I think it's a pretty normal reaction to have when you're kissed by a close friend and kissed for the first time in general in a non-creepy way, whether you have feelings or not
And the fact people use that as their 'main' reason Ash likes her back....just shows how much their 'relationship as a couple' and it's writing sucked. Now their relationship as friends or Serena's crush and their handling, it's a whole other debate Im not really interested in having considering what it devolves into, but when people claim it's a fact Ash has feelings for Serena or that they were portrayed as a good couple or a couple of any kind, I just cringe

I think it's due to the fact there is some bizzaro rule among the fandom that apparently states that Ash alone cannot never age, therefore he cannot reciprocate and thus Serena should find another love interest ignoring the fact that she too cannot age and there's nothing about Ash that she'll give up on.

Which naturally leads to overcompensation to affirm that Amourshipping is safe and not in danger of being retconned.

All of this ignoring the fact that Ash does know love and does feel love... it's just that he doesn't understand the variants of love such as romantic love. At best, he feels happier with Serena than with any other person, but he wouldn't recognize it as an epiphany that his feelings for Serena are romantic, not just friends. As Yajima said before, they aren't a couple now, but they could be in the future. That future would be when Ash and Serena are adults and thus mature enough to understand what romantic love is. And it's a future we won't be seeing anytime soon on TV.

 

[janejane6178]

One of the best Journeys episodes and this is overall one of the best returns in the Pokemon anime probably. Serena has really grown up, she feels totally different from the last episode of XY Serena.

Best character with most depth in the anime has to have the best return

 

[Kuzehiko]

Best character with most depth in the anime has to have the best return

Saying Serena is the best character would be so biased even for me. I don't agree but I do think she is one of the best characters in the show.

 

[janejane6178]

Saying Serena is the best character would be so biased even for me. I don't agree but I do think she is one of the best characters in the show.

I fully respect your opinion, you are wonderful

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Took her sweet time deciding on what to do that she decided on something after a movie had to release first.

 

[janejane6178]

What a wonderful character
Full of depth and beauty
So majestic and special .


I wonder if we will ever have such a magnificent character in the anime again

 

[RafaSceptile]

I'm even more confident in my assertion that this episode really didn't do much for Serena's character that the tail end of XY didn't do.

Serena has really grown up, she feels totally different from the last episode of XY Serena.

The duality of man.

But I agree with Kuzehiko, one of the best returns of the Pokémon anime.

 

[Gingertail24]

I think it's due to the fact there is some bizzaro rule among the fandom that apparently states that Ash alone cannot never age, therefore he cannot reciprocate and thus Serena should find another love interest ignoring the fact that she too cannot age and there's nothing about Ash that she'll give up on.

Which naturally leads to overcompensation to affirm that Amourshipping is safe and not in danger of being retconned.

All of this ignoring the fact that Ash does know love and does feel love... it's just that he doesn't understand the variants of love such as romantic love. At best, he feels happier with Serena than with any other person, but he wouldn't recognize it as an epiphany that his feelings for Serena are romantic, not just friends. As Yajima said before, they aren't a couple now, but they could be in the future. That future would be when Ash and Serena are adults and thus mature enough to understand what romantic love is. And it's a future we won't be seeing anytime soon on TV.

Didn't the VA say ash doesn't really understand what a crush is? Did it state anywhere that ash feels happier with serena compared with anyone else