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EffortfuLillie! A Determined Runaway Act! (994)

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Do we now why she wants to meet an Ultra Beast? I mean besides Gladion apperantly saying she's wanted to see one from a young age? Despite the anime not directly saying Mohn's name we still see a wedding picture, they purposely blinded with light to not show who's she married to. I don't think obession with Nihilego caused her to hate her kids but instead she couldn't take them "rejecting her love" and leaving so she simply disowned them, the toxins made it worse but her obession wasn't the direct cause.

You keep saying "if you've played the games" but the thing is that they've drastically changed Lusamine's character from the games. In the games, Lusamine investigated Ultra Wormholes to find her husband and slowly went mad to the point of abusing her children and dressing them up like dolls. Gladion states as much, and in the original SM, Lillie practically yells at Gladion for "leaving her alone with mother". The toxins made things even worse, but she didn't show signs of her abuse towards her children just because they ran away. Sure, she went crazy further because of that, but it wasn't the impetus.

In the anime, though, it's explicitly stated that Lusamine has wanted to see Ultra Beasts since she was a child. Gladion said as much in SM 49. So her motivations are genuinely to protect and care for her children, rather than her abusive counterpart. To say she's still evil, or has been all along, simply wouldn't make sense and, like Akkipeddi said, reek of a forced nature that no one really wants.

Also, I thought it was Silvally that caused Lillie's fear, not Nihilego?
 

Obscurites

Well-Known Member
I like the funny parts of this episode: Glazio's "What are you doing?" (to Lilie, twice) and Lilie's "There must be an invisible bridge here".
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
The wierdest part of the episode was obviously this:

[IMG300]https://imgur.com/TMRgBjv.gif[/IMG300]

Seriously, someone who can't carry a log can lift 999.9 kgs!?!?!? Even Pikachu was easily able to do that.

Regarding Z-Lillie, yeah it kinds looked meh to me. It would have been better happening during a tight situation, like during the Totem battle.
 

Rajas

Well-Known Member
From my limited understanding of the Japanese language, what i can say is that Burnet questioned Faba as to why he used her machine without permission. But on the other hand Faba kept saying that it wasn't his fault and it was all Lusamine's fault.

Thanks for that, I am pretty confused as to why they were so casual with him after what took place but Faba blaming Lusamine makes sense as he was doing everything to see her dream come through. He just seems like a character who does wrong things but deflects to others when it comes to taking blame. All he cares about it fame anyways based on how we've seen him so far.

Oh wow, so the slasher smile did mean something after all. I thought it was weird she didn't fire Faba on the spot after he *cough cough* kindapped her daughter but... anyway I don't care how it goes, but I prefer if they stuck to the orginal games idea of making her evil from the start. It would be the perfect plot twist since people have been swearing up and down Lusamine was good this whole time.

Well to be fair, he escaped and Lusamine did have everyone searching for him but he was already hunting down Nebby. At this point I see it as poor writing and not a plot twist if she was actually evil and not controlled solely by Nihilego (maybe even Necrozma in the future). Her smile was made to look creepy so as to give a weak explanation to if she does get turned by Nihilego's toxins, she literally has no other reason to fall back on. She loves her children, she is okay with Mohn's death/disappearance? In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he just left to do research and Lusamine knows where he is all this time and we see him later on in the series. The look could also just be explained that she was torn between seeing her dream fulfilled but also realizing it's what hurt her daughter which is why she raged off after and tried to battle it. It's also why she saved Gladion, her children are her life even if she failed to show it while working hard.

TLDR: Mama Lusamine is pure.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Anyway, to today's episode. Faba seems genuinely shocked and remorseful regarding what happened to Lusamine. I'm guessing his aim really was to make Lusamine happy by having an Ultra Beast appear, but didn't foresee what it was capable of doing.

The Z-Powered Lillie moment felt kind of meh to me personally. There wasn't really any reason or powerful meaning for that change. It just felt like Lillie casually dressing up and changing her attire to go somewhere. Anyway, the siblings are off on Silvally.

Well another stupid Sophocles theory. Anyway, I liked seeing Hala again, and as I thought, he's the one that states that Solgaleo is needed for an Ultra Wormhole.

I liked seeing Snowy being sort of relevant again after ages, but can it please learn a new move instead of Powder Snow spamming? I'd say the animation for it can easily pass off as being Blizzard. So after some ice skating skills, Gladion successfully inserts the fairy memory disc, and Silvally OHKO's Kommo-o.

Overall, an above average episode. It did feel a little slow at times, and I personally was underwhelmed by Z-Powered Lillie. Also, the classmates feel completely out of place and irrelevant to all this, and simply feel like they're there because they are part of the cast. I give the episode 6.5/10.

I mean Lusamine did just get abducted by the same thing that tried to take Lillie after just starting to mend bridges but OK
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
It's much better than Serena's reason for her design change anyways...

Can't see how it's a bad reason when she did it to deepen her resolve and focus in her goal.

Lillie's Z-powered transformation moment did look meh to be honest. It obviously would have looked a lot better has she did it in a crisis/tight situation, like during the Totem Kommo-o battle.
 
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Frozocrone

Miraculous!
It's much better than Serena's reason for her design change anyways...

I think both were good for different reasons.

Can't see how it's a bad reason when she did it to deepen her resolve and focus in her goal.

Lillie's Z-powered transformation moment did look meh to be honest. It obviously would have looked a lot better has she did it in a crisis/tight situation, like the Totem Kommo-o battle.

"Lillie, I need your help NOW!!"

"Oniisama, I have to do my hair!"
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
"Lillie, I need your help NOW!!"

"Oniisama, I have to do my hair!"

Think differently.

The allies+Kommo-o come to attack.

Lillie(does her hair is a flash and throws her Pokeball): Shiron, use Powder Snow!

How does it seem now?
 

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
I'm glad they didn't pull a Serena 2.0 and just had Lillie change her outfit without all the crying and rethinking everything. She went home and got straight to the point.
I would've preferred a little more dramatic moment from Lillie during this change. Serena's had a lot more significance and emphasis placed upon it, while Lillie's moment didn't really have much emphasis placed upon it at all. Lillie's outfit change/moment felt pretty lacking, like a few others have eluded to already. To me, watching Lillie's moment in this episode felt more like, "okay, I'm ready, let's do this!" Regardless, I wouldn't compare the two moments, besides the fact they they both changed outfits.

Anyway, even though this was a pretty serious episode, I did find a few moments that were funny. Lillie's reaction when Gladion entered her room, when Ash was talking to Hala (specifically Pikachu shaking Cosmoem), and when Ash and the gang made their entrance, after Gladion and Lillie made it past Totem Kommo-o (the screaming and Sophocles' expression, I just wasn't expecting it the time). I also liked all the BGMs that were used in this episode as well. Seeing Lillie and Shiron get involved during the Totem battle was cool too. I do wish the battle would've lasted a little longer, instead of Silvally's KO with one move, but, I did like the frozen ground, Gladion sliding on it to retrieve the disc, and the dramatic fashion in what was happening.

It's much better than Serena's reason for her design change anyways...
I respectfully disagree.

It's nice to be able to watch an episode in the morning, instead of 10 hours after it airs, for once!
 
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Akkipeddi

Materia Hunter
Well I certainly didn't mean that she should've changed to her Z-Powered form in a battle. All I'm saying is that unlike the emotional impact the game version conveyed, I didn't get that in today's episode. It just felt like a regular wardrobe change, when we know that her Z-Powered form is more than just that. I guess that's why I didn't like her and Gladion sneaking out at night as well, since I probably would've liked her to appear in front of all her classmates the next morning like that, with everyone amazed, and Lillie explaining her new found resolve to find her mother or something like that.
 

Darthlord7

Explorer
Think differently.

The allies+Kommo-o come to attack.

Lillie(does her hair is a flash and throws her Pokeball): Shiron, use Powder Snow!

How does it seem now?

What's the point of changing attire but decide to change your hair when an enemy appears? The ponytail is a part of her new design anyway.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
This episode was not quite as intense overall as I was expecting, but I still really enjoyed it. I really like how the episode opened up with everyone's horrified expressions as they absorbed what just happened. My heart really went out to Lillie in particular, the poor girl. But I really admired her immediate determination to save her mother. Also, I was right about Gladion insisting that Ash not get involved in a family matter (I felt a little sorry for Ash there; he so badly wanted to help, and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt a little guilty).

I got a chuckle out of Lillie viewing the obstacles to the Altar of the Sunne as puzzles that needed to be solved, while Gladion just plowed on through. Statues of the starters that might be the keys to opening the door? The door is already open. A bridge that's out? Have Silvally leap over the ravine. It was a nice contrast between the siblings, actually—between Lillie's intellectual nature and Gladion's more practical nature.

The battle against Totem Kommo-o did not take up a lot of screentime, but I'm pleased with that. I really liked Lillie's role as support in that battle; it was nice to see her battle for a change, and she and Shiron did pretty well, despite Shiron only knowing one move. Overall, I really like how she and Gladion worked together to defeat Totem Kommo-o and its allies.

And let's not forget Ash's "Big D*** Heroes" entrance. :p I was certainly not expecting Ash and the others to catch up to Lillie and Gladion so quickly! (To be honest, I didn't expect them all to meet up until next episode.)

Have to say really disappionted with Silvally in the episode.....common you a beast slayer. I get that Liliie needed to play an important part in this episode, but for the sake of nerfing Silvally? It seemed like Silvally wouldn't have been able to beat Totem Kommo-o without the Fairy type memory.
What's with all of this arguing about Silvally being nerfed? There was no nerfing; Silvally was not struggling against Totem Kommo-o. Lillie merely pointed out to Gladion that Silvally would have the type advantage if he used the Fairy type Memory—something Gladion hadn't thought of, obviously.

I'm glad they didn't pull a Serena 2.0 and just had Lillie change her outfit without all the crying and rethinking everything. She went home and got straight to the point. I also enjoy how she's become more assertive with people around her. I'm assuming they're going to reverse Lillie's and Lusamine's interactions and have Lusamine call her out on her BS. Lillie has been rude to Lusamine ever since she got the show (wether it's right or wrong is your opinion) and now is crying because she lost her mother who's she's been nothing but rude to. I'm guessing Lusamine has some backed up anger from her children resenting her and will fully showcase it once they meet. It's like one those "you don't know what you have until it's gone" thing.
Why are you comparing Serena and Lillie? The two aren't comparable at all. Serena's haircut symbolized more than just a costume change and "crying and rethinking everything." However, that's not the topic of this thread, and I really don't want to see another Serena debate, so I'm not going to go into any further detail right now.

Lillie has not been needlessly rude to Lusamine. Lusamine is overbearing and condescending toward her daughter and treats her like a baby (she even calls her a baby). Lillie's reaction to that is perfectly normal for anyone her age. I don't see Lusamine having any backed-up anger or resentment toward her children, because she has no reason to.

I'm just hoping this is simply a case of Faba using Lusamine's dream of seeing an Ultra Beast as an excuse to cover up his actions, because it will be a very underwhelming plot twist if Lusamine were the one to suddenly reveal that "oh haha, I was the one behind it all". Really hoping they don't do that.
It was pretty clear to me, from his mannerisms and the fast pace of his speech, that Faba was just trying to push the blame on Lusamine in order to save his own skin; otherwise, he would get in serious trouble for being responsible for getting his boss kidnapped by an Ultra Beast (not to mention using a machine he did not have permission to use).
 
Well I certainly didn't mean that she should've changed to her Z-Powered form in a battle. All I'm saying is that unlike the emotional impact the game version conveyed, I didn't get that in today's episode. It just felt like a regular wardrobe change, when we know that her Z-Powered form is more than just that. I guess that's why I didn't like her and Gladion sneaking out at night as well, since I probably would've liked her to appear in front of all her classmates the next morning like that, with everyone amazed, and Lillie explaining her new found resolve to find her mother or something like that.
Having Lillie appear in her new outfit before everyone and everyone looking at her amazed like she's mother Teresa would have been completely pointless and unnecessary.

I'm personally happy the writers took the more subtle route and demonstrated Lillie's change in form of her being more proactive rather than being overglorified in front of her friends. And if they did what you suggest, it would have been exactly the same as they did with Serena, and I don't want another copy of that. This was more original.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Think differently.

The allies+Kommo-o come to attack.

Lillie(does her hair is a flash and throws her Pokeball): Shiron, use Powder Snow!

How does it seem now?

Really bad.

Why change her hair but not her clothes? If she changed her clothes but not her hair until that moment, why?
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Some people really wanted Lillie's change to be more dramatic for some reason.

Why would she change her appearance in the middle of a serious battle?

I don't know, maybe because Faba and Steenee are magical girls Lillie should be one too *shrugs*

I was happy with it. I don't think it was as powerful as game!Lillie but I still liked it.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
What's the point of changing attire but decide to change your hair when an enemy appears? The ponytail is a part of her new design anyway.
Well, changing transformation(espcially when it looks cool) during a crisis situation make you look even cooler and a badass(pretty much this kind of thing happens in many shows as far I'm concerned).

Really bad.

Why change her hair but not her clothes? If she changed her clothes but not her hair until that moment, why?

To look more cooler and badass during a crisis moment, simple.

What's with all of this arguing about Silvally being nerfed? There was no nerfing; Silvally was not struggling against Totem Kommo-o. Lillie merely pointed out to Gladion that Silvally would have the type advantage if he used the Fairy type Memory—something Gladion hadn't thought of, obviously.
I guess you missed the part where Totem Kommo-o easily blocked Silvally's Crush Claw. And the way Gladion took risk for retreiving the Fairy type memory implied that Silvally wouldn't have been able to beat Kommo-o without it.

And I have more arguements here:
Eh Totem Kommo-o easily resisted Crush Claw from Silvally, and they made it seem like Silvally wouldn't have beaten Kommo-o without the Fairy type memory(which got knocked away from Gladion's hands and he needed big help from Shiron freezing the ground to retrieve it). I have no idea how that makes any sense, since Silvally is supposed to go toe to toe with the UB's.
Honestly if you're talking about taking 'all dragons by itself', then those Dragons were basically ally Pokemon, and Ash's Rowlet has got wins against ally Pokemon, and Shiron was also holding them off. So logically those ally Pokemon shouldn't be anywhere close to Silvally's strength. And Jessie's Mimikyu, Ash's Litten and Lana's Popplio have got wins against Totems so far, so how does it make sense for Silvally to have difficulties against a Totem?

And Silvally is built to be a counter to be the UB's(most probably will have to combat them in SM53), was shown pushing away Nihelego in the flashback, easily KO'd Faba's Pokemon(which were depicted to be quite strong), easily defeated Dusk Lycanroc as Type:Null. So considering it's strength, it did look like PIS(for the sake of Lillie and Shiron playing a part) for Silvally to have difficulties in the Totem battle.
 
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Darthlord7

Explorer
Well, changing transformation(espcially when it looks cool) during a crisis situation make you look even cooler and a badass(pretty much this kind of thing happens in may shows as far I'm concerned.

The point is that Lillie is not trying to act cool and has no reason to do so. She just wants to help her brother and save their mother. Forcing her to act cool for the sake of it, is just plain bad.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Lillie changing her hairstyle during the battle against Totem Kommo-o wouldn't have made sense. The change in clothes and hairstyle was an outward sign of her determination to save her mother. So, it was appropriate that it happened before she left home to rescue her mother. Having her change her hairstyle in the middle of battle would have meant the meaning of the change would be lost.

I guess you missed the part where Totem Kommo-o easily blocked Silvally's Crush Claw. And the way Gladion took risk for retreiving the Fairy type memory implied that Silvally wouldn't have been able to beat Kommo-o without it.

And I have more arguements here:
I didn't miss the part where Totem Kommo-o easily blocked Silvally's Crush Claw. I even said in my post that Silvally used one move against Totem Kommo-o, which was blocked. That does not mean Silvally was completely nerfed. Yes, Gladion took a risk to retrieve the Fairy type Memory, because it gave him the type advantage, and having the type advantage makes the battle easier.
 
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