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Elite Four Wikstrom! The House of Chivalry (1145)

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Best girl Dawn, Infernape/Ash/Paul, Alolan fam <3
I feel like i'm beating a dead horse here, but why are we making this about Goh interupting again... there never was any complaints this bad when the pokegirls got their contests or joined in something ash did. Like dawn and maylene was a great moment for her because we would expect ash to snap the gym leader out of her depression, but now it's a new (admittedly rushed) character and we complain every week? Yes this could have been an episode about just ash and i'd have loved it even more. But how about accepting it and reviewing the next 20 minutes for what it is, instead of being stuck on the slightly split development...

Goh would have worked better for this series if he took the backseat longer, if we had ash be a mentor for longer instead of a friend, all these things are true. But the way we repeat 'ew goh gets moments' is the same stagnant progression we have of the anime repeating split development. And i'm pretty sure that towards the end of the series it's going to be Ash and the finals again, they aren't rushing through the tournament for nothing, look at the kalos league, sure it was cut short. But we got a few of the best full battles we've ever had. This show is sadly a case of missed potentional and odd pacing, but I rarely see people adress these things as much as they adress Goh. I enjoy different opinions on the narrative and progression of the characters, but we end up with a goh discussion almost every week, while the writing is at fault.

That said, i've only recently gotten active on this platform, but it is nice to share thoughts nonetheless with y'all, and everyone is free to love or hate it as much as they want in the end. Just wish we could all have some more substantial discussions here.
Well said! Completely agree here, it's annoying to hear the same things over again with no new perspective, it gets tiring
Ash doesn't do contests yet he even joined the wallace cup among others, dawn doesnt do gyms but she did maylene, Goh cares about his pokemon so he goes along with what scyther wants. Goh isn't a food contest guy, but it fit his skwovet, ash doesn't do races, ping pong, sumo tournaments and stuff, but these all happened. Partly due to the anime needing to fill episodes with events? yes...but sometimes ash goes along with what his pokemon wants to do, and how big an ass would goh be, if he said 'nah scyther, i dont care about battling'. Goh's main quote aside from mew is 'to catch pokemon is to understand pokemon'... that means taking care of your pokemons wishes too.
Exactly lmao, Goh catches mons to understand and bond with them, why wouldn't he participate in stuff his mons want to help them just like Ash does all the time. There's a clear double standard here
What the heck why does Goh never use his pokemon???????

*uses his Pokemon*

No not like that!
XD The down comment is a perfect example of that
Oh yay, Goh evolved his Pokemon. Now it can go rot in the lab with the rest of his Pokemon .
Atleast Ash's bird got some development
So you have a problem when Goh gives his mons focus and development, and also a problem when he doesn't
Ahhhh yes Wikistrom, the badly written character because he *checks notes* has a trading machine
These complaints are funny ngl XD
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Well said! Completely agree here, it's annoying to hear the same things over again with no new perspective, it gets tiring

Exactly lmao, Goh catches mons to understand and bond with them, why wouldn't he participate in stuff his mons want to help them just like Ash does all the time. There's a clear double standard here

XD The down comment is a perfect example of that

So you have a problem when Goh gives his mons focus and development, and also a problem when he doesn't

These complaints are funny ngl XD
I never said I had a problem with Goh not developing his Pokemon, I dont like his character and goal as a whole.
And btw, him showcasing his Pokemon every 20 episodes doesnt count as good development in my opinion. We've seen cyther, what. 3 times? and It evolved? I understand u like this development and I respect that, but for me its not enough
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I never said I had a problem with Goh not developing his Pokemon, I dont like his character and goal as a whole.
And btw, him showcasing his Pokemon every 20 episodes doesnt count as good development in my opinion. We've seen cyther, what. 3 times? and It evolved? I understand u like this development and I respect that, but for me its not enough
13 times*
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Best girl Dawn, Infernape/Ash/Paul, Alolan fam <3
I never said I had a problem with Goh not developing his Pokemon, I dont like his character and goal as a whole.
And btw, him showcasing his Pokemon every 20 episodes doesnt count as good development in my opinion. We've seen cyther, what. 3 times? and It evolved? I understand u like this development and I respect that, but for me its not enough
I just feel like complaining Goh's mons are getting some focus because his mons are useless anyway is kinda hypocritical
I can see why his goal isnt to ur taste, I don't really like it much either but in a goal like this, this is the only way to spread out focus for his mons more. It has shown to have an interest in battling and battled against an E4 in the episode. Also why does it need to "deserve" an evolution when it met all the requirements needed
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
I just feel like complaining Goh's mons are getting some focus because his mons are useless anyway is kinda hypocritical
I can see why his goal isnt to ur taste, I don't really like it much either but in a goal like this, this is the only way to spread out focus for his mons more. It has shown to have an interest in battling and battled against an E4 in the episode. Also why does it need to "deserve" an evolution when it met all the requirements needed
I just think u need to accept the fact that no1 every like the same characters. I already accepted this fact
 

Watershuriken97

Well-Known Member
I just think u need to accept the fact that no1 every like the same characters. I already accepted this fact
It's perfectly fine to not like a character, but if you base your entire argument about not liking the character every week, ur not really talking about the episode, because ur not judging the development on it's own, you write it off because it's development for Goh in advance. At that point it's not really a case of us not accepting people don't like him, it's being frustrated with the way the conversations always end in the exact same debate.
I agree that goh could have split up earlier and make the battle purely ash vs wikstrom, but they got seperated when it mattered most in the episode during the pitfall scene.

And it's not like ash hasn't had this happen, gligar and charmeleon evolved crazy fast, gilgar had a nice development in it's time, charmeleon didn't, Scyther falls in the middle between those 2.
 

Dragonsoldier77

Well-Known Member
After watching it again, the end felt really abrupt?

Farfetch suddenly used detect out of nowhere (i guess because he’s paying attention to others now?), then the fight was stopped and goh suddenly has the key.

I actually thought I skipped something during my first watch. Shame, when the rest of the ep was pretty good.
 

Pepsi_Plunge

Dojyaaa~~aan
"Dang, we're 30 seconds under the runtime. What do we do?"
"Wait, Go has a scyther, right?"
"I...think so? What pokemon did we have him use this episode, does anyone know?"
"Looks like scyther. Hard to tell through all this money from mobile game transactions."
"Should we give him a scizor?"
"Doesn't that require trading?"
"Eh, give the bawly knight guy dude a trading machine, nobody will question it."


Man, if this is how they're writing Wikstrom, I'm relieved he wasn't in XY, because yikes
Dunno, a guy wearing an armor where everyone else isn't comes of as a silly Knight Otaku, so him being goofy wasn't that bad for me. His ingame quotes sound pretty goofy even.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
It's perfectly fine to not like a character, but if you base your entire argument about not liking the character every week, ur not really talking about the episode, because ur not judging the development on it's own, you write it off because it's development for Goh in advance. At that point it's not really a case of us not accepting people don't like him, it's being frustrated with the way the conversations always end in the exact same debate.
I agree that goh could have split up earlier and make the battle purely ash vs wikstrom, but they got seperated when it mattered most in the episode during the pitfall scene.

And it's not like ash hasn't had this happen, gligar and charmeleon evolved crazy fast, gilgar had a nice development in it's time, charmeleon didn't, Scyther falls in the middle between those 2.
You can just ignore me then, there is an option for that here. Like I did with u now hehe. That way u wont see my complains:)

Anyway, I wonder if we will see that e4 member again
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
It was alright, I'm not a fan of them seeming to have a trend of "Let's focus entirely on a singular Pokemon of Ash's until it evolves!" though. Seriously if an evolution had to happen it should have been Farfetch'd, something earned. At least Lucario had the excuse of being Ash's main Pokemon and needed for Darkest Day but even he's been sidelined and much as I hate the Dracovish abomination it needs to do something too, but of course this problem could easily be fixed if you know.... they actually freaking focused on Ash's goal instead of the Gary Stu's for a damn change?!
Instead Scyther just gets a random trade swap(And as a long time dreamer of Ash getting Gigalith that just pissed me off! They can do that for Goh but not Ash?! -_- )
Also RIP dreamers of trading Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/whatever it was for Scyther....

7/10 The episodes have been getting better post DD(Except for Diglett and Suicune, they sucked) but they still need to fix issues regarding Ash and the PWC
Hopefully we get Grimsley later on and Ash gets his due with a legendary capture
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Best girl Dawn, Infernape/Ash/Paul, Alolan fam <3
Why the hell does Goh need to "earn" that evolution? It is shown to be a battler, Goh helps it battle more, it faces off against an E4 and then it meets the requirements it needs in the games to evolve. Simple. How the hell is it undeserved
Also the complaints against Goh by relating it to Ash and boldore is dumb, like all the other criticisms of Goh that come at the expense of whining that Ash didn't do the same
 

Ignition

Pancakes
I beg for the day we don’t have the millionth debate on the criticisms of Go’s character. I swear some of you are only here to complain, argue with other people complaining, or both.

The start of the episode was straightforward but it didn’t need to do much: established that Go is helping Ash train Farfetch’d and Scyther want to train at Wikistrom’s palace(?). A common criticism I have with the series in general is how sometimes it feels like it takes far too long to get to the focus of the episode. This episode is far from the first to do this well but it’s still nice.

I like Wikstrom prior to this episode but man they really gave him the spotlight he deserves. I wish the Kalos E4 got spotlight like the Gym Leaders did. I love the trope of the manly guy who’s all about being dedicated to protect your loved ones and is super expressive about it. His Aegislash being his straight man was super cute. Later in the episode they fight together (literally) and you just get the impression that they’re close without him having to say it. I like that he has in game team if you consider the Mega Scizor to be canon and how both Probopass & Klefki helped him with his training courses.

Had a lot to say about Go so I decided to put this into a spoiler so my post doesn’t become mostly a rant about Go (don’t worry it’s not another “Go is the embodiment of evil” post):
Going to be honest: I did think a lot of the complaining about how other people had issues with Go was getting annoying. I personally never had much issue with him but I could somewhat see where people were coming from. But seeing people upset with him getting screen time and a Scizor is when I felt like people were being extremely extra. A common criticism is that Go treats his Pokémon like collectibles so when he does give Scyther a chance to hone its personal skills, it’s screen hogging? So would you want for him to have an entire episode dedicated to just Scyther or completely ignore it and let him catch more Pokémon just to be deemed “worthless”? No matter what situation you choose, it seems like someone has an issue with it. I’m not going to tell someone they have to like a character or that their criticisms are invalid but this episode is the most inoffensive use of Go in awhile and I genuinely can’t see how someone can find something to complain about. He passed the trials on an E4 member and he still didn’t deserve Scizor? I hate using in game logic but what exactly do we do to earn trade evolutions? Go wasn’t even the one to initiate the trade: Wikstrom did. Clearly Scyther wanted to evolve so was he supposed to say no so people could call him heartless for not caring about his Pokémon? I swear it’s like no matter what Go does, he gets bs for it lol

Finally, Ash and Farfetch’d. I still stand by my criticisms of Farfetch’d’s development but they mostly make up with it here. I like that Farfetch’d isn’t being a jerk to spite Ash: his priorities are getting stronger and finding opponents who will do that for it. The scene where Ash falls in the pit and grabs its leek showed that it was beginning to understand what Ash meant but wasn’t quite sure of itself. Highlight of the episode was when Farfetch’d protected Ash and used Detect afterwards. (Please give this thing an offensive STAB move in its next episode). It didn’t feel forced: it’s actually taking that moment and found something to get stronger for. It’s a little cheesy but I like moments like these where Ash influences a Pokémon for the better and it returns the favor.

Definitely one of my favorite Journeys episode. This is exactly what I want from this series: Great use of an “old” character, working off of established episodes, and furthering the development for both of the boys. 10/10
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Best girl Dawn, Infernape/Ash/Paul, Alolan fam <3
I beg for the day we don’t have the millionth debate on the criticisms of Go’s character. I swear some of you are only here to complain, argue with other people complaining, or both.

The start of the episode was straightforward but it didn’t need to do much: established that Go is helping Ash train Farfetch’d and Scyther want to train at Wikistrom’s palace(?). A common criticism I have with the series in general is how sometimes it feels like it takes far too long to get to the focus of the episode. This episode is far from the first to do this well but it’s still nice.

I like Wikstrom prior to this episode but man they really gave him the spotlight he deserves. I wish the Kalos E4 got spotlight like the Gym Leaders did. I love the trope of the manly guy who’s all about being dedicated to protect your loved ones and is super expressive about it. His Aegislash being his straight man was super cute. Later in the episode they fight together (literally) and you just get the impression that they’re close without him having to say it. I like that he has in game team if you consider the Mega Scizor to be canon and how both Probopass & Klefki helped him with his training courses.

Had a lot to say about Go so I decided to put this into a spoiler so my post doesn’t become mostly a rant about Go (don’t worry it’s not another “Go is the embodiment of evil” post):
Going to be honest: I did think a lot of the complaining about how other people had issues with Go was getting annoying. I personally never had much issue with him but I could somewhat see where people were coming from. But seeing people upset with him getting screen time and a Scizor is when I felt like people were being extremely extra. A common criticism is that Go treats his Pokémon like collectibles so when he does give Scyther a chance to hone its personal skills, it’s screen hogging? So would you want for him to have an entire episode dedicated to just Scyther or completely ignore it and let him catch more Pokémon just to be deemed “worthless”? No matter what situation you choose, it seems like someone has an issue with it. I’m not going to tell someone they have to like a character or that their criticisms are invalid but this episode is the most inoffensive use of Go in awhile and I genuinely can’t see how someone can find something to complain about. He passed the trials on an E4 member and he still didn’t deserve Scizor? I hate using in game logic but what exactly do we do to earn trade evolutions? Go wasn’t even the one to initiate the trade: Wikstrom did. Clearly Scyther wanted to evolve so was he supposed to say no so people could call him heartless for not caring about his Pokémon? I swear it’s like no matter what Go does, he gets bs for it lol

Finally, Ash and Farfetch’d. I still stand by my criticisms of Farfetch’d’s development but they mostly make up with it here. I like that Farfetch’d isn’t being a jerk to spite Ash: his priorities are getting stronger and finding opponents who will do that for it. The scene where Ash falls in the pit and grabs its leek showed that it was beginning to understand what Ash meant but wasn’t quite sure of itself. Highlight of the episode was when Farfetch’d protected Ash and used Detect afterwards. (Please give this thing an offensive STAB move in its next episode). It didn’t feel forced: it’s actually taking that moment and found something to get stronger for. It’s a little cheesy but I like moments like these where Ash influences a Pokémon for the better and it returns the favor.

Definitely one of my favorite Journeys episode. This is exactly what I want from this series: Great use of an “old” character, working off of established episodes, and furthering the development for both of the boys. 10/10
I whole heartedly agree with the post. I must say Farfetch'd evolving here would have ruined a lot of things for me, this being a precusor to it evolving fits so well! Farfetch'd has become my fav ash mon in journeys rn because they bothered to give it a proper arc, even if the pacing of it was off. Lucario too got somewhat of an arc but it didnt feel, "defined". I just hope Gengar and Dracovish get an episode or a chance to majorly shine in a battle, and an episode where ash's team gets lost in the forest, so they could interact with each other. Would really fix lots of problems about Ash's team imo
 
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