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Elite Four Wikstrom! The House of Chivalry (1145)

AuraChannelerChris

Disappearing isn't that bad, actually.
Scyther evolves by trade, it is not something about "deserving" unlike other evolution methods
It's less about how it evolves but more about, "Wikstrom just so happened to have a Metal Coat he happily gave out and a strange one-of-a-kind anti-trading machine unheard of to even players that he doesn't even have a need for himself for the entire sake of giving Goh a way to evolve his Scyther with almost no effort on his part."

I wonder myself when we're going to see that machine ever again, or why it suddenly exists after the Feebas episode.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
It's less about how it evolves but more about, "Wikstrom just so happened to have a Metal Coat he happily gave out and a strange one-of-a-kind anti-trading machine unheard of to even players that he doesn't even have a need for himself for the entire sake of giving Goh a way to evolve his Scyther with almost no effort on his part."

I wonder myself when we're going to see that machine ever again, or why it suddenly exists after the Feebas episode.
He is a steel E4 member, so having a metal coat makes sense
 

AuraChannelerChris

Disappearing isn't that bad, actually.
He is a steel E4 member, so having a metal coat makes sense
Just because he specializes in a type doesn't mean he has to be carrying out all the Steel-type accessories and even that weird machine that he himself has really no use for seeing as he has no Pokemon that evolves through trading.

Even odder is how Ash didn't get this kind of treatment from all other Elite Four he met.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Just because he specializes in a type doesn't mean he has to be carrying out all the Steel-type accessories and even that weird machine that he himself has really no use for seeing as he has no Pokemon that evolves through trading.

Even odder is how Ash didn't get this kind of treatment from all other Elite Four he met.
Oh no, the billionth "but Ash didn't get X, Y or Z thing" argument...
 

AuraChannelerChris

Disappearing isn't that bad, actually.
Oh no, the billionth "but Ash didn't get X, Y or Z thing" argument...
Let's go down memory lane!

Bruno: Thanks for sort of helping me get this giant Onyx.
Ash: Cool!
Bruno: knthnxbai *Hulk-jumps away*

Lorelei: Hey, boys.
Ash: *shoved aside by Misty*

Agatha: Imma beat yo *** boi.

Drake: Imma beat yo *** boi.
Ash: C'mooooon, gimme something.
Drake: A BOAT ride with a party, ONE PIECE STYLE!
Everyone: *cheers*

Aaron: Imma beat yo *** boi.

Lucian: Imma beat yo *** boi, in glasses.

Bertha: Imma beat yo *** boi.

Flint: Imma beat yo *** boi, monkey style!

Malva: Who the **** are you?

*Alola doesn't count because Kukui can't even think about an Alolan Elite Four*

Wikstrom, like 7 years too late: Thy chivalry is inspirational, I'll shall give thee this Metal Coat in recognition of your defeat by my hands!
Ash: Wow, really?! Whoa! T-this has never happened to me before. Okay, tha-!
Wikstrom: I was talking to your twin brother.
Goh: SCORE!

(...Huh. Why do people like Ash aga-?)
 
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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I actually like the idea of a machine mimicing trade to invoke evolution. Wikstrom could of used the machine to evolve his own Scyther in the past.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Let's go down memory lane!

Bruno: Thanks for sort of helping me get this giant Onyx.
Ash: Cool!
Bruno: knthnxbai *Hulk-jumps away*

Lorelei: Hey, boys.
Ash: *shoved aside by Misty*

Agatha: Imma beat yo *** boi.

Drake: Imma beat yo *** boi.
Ash: C'mooooon, gimme something.
Drake: A BOAT ride with a party, ONE PIECE STYLE!
Everyone: *cheers*

Aaron: Imma beat yo *** boi.

Lucien: Imma beat yo *** boi, in glasses.

Bertha: Imma beat yo *** boi.

Flint: Imma beat yo *** boi, monkey style!

Malva: Who the **** are you?

*Alola doesn't count because Kukui can't even think about an Alolan Elite Four*

Wikstrom, like 7 years too late: Thy chivalry is inspirational, I'll shall give thee this Metal Coat in recognition of your defeat by my hands!
Ash: Wow, really?! Whoa! T-this has never happened to me before. Okay, tha-!
Wikstrom: I was talking to your twin brother.
Goh: SCORE!

(...Huh. Why do people like Ash aga-?)
Yes, things changes over time, Ash got a mythical Pokémon, Ash won a League, etc.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Exactly lmao, Goh catches mons to understand and bond with them, why wouldn't he participate in stuff his mons want to help them just like Ash does all the time. There's a clear double standard here

Let me put it this way:

You are bashed in the head once a week, or you are bashed in the head once a year.

Which would be more annoying to you to have to deal with?

In other words using Ash as an example, is rather ridiculous since he does it so infrequently of those situations, whereas with Go he does things more frequently than Ash in that type of context. In fairness to the argument though, Go has every right to train/use his Pokemon in any way he sees fit or his Pokemon desire.

Also I don't like when people use double standard on situations where it shouldn't apply. Ash only entered contests for example primarily due to his Pokemon or other characters. The one time he chose FREELY to do it himself was in Hoenn, but it made sense considering the contest was unofficial and open to everyone, and was just a way to allow Ash the main character to experience them (especially since DP also provided him strategies and tactics to use in battles because of contests). It's not like May would've benefitted from said unofficial contest, since the Grand Festival was over and it was unofficial, in fact one could argue both May and Ash screwed and cheated younger prospects by hijacking the contest available to anyone.....but whatever.

I'd be more understandable of the double standard argument, if Ash entered contests just as much as May or Dawn and was actually trying to impede their progress by butting in all the time.

That doesn't necessarily apply to Go, but considering he gets to do a lot of stuff that Ash doesn't get to benefit at all, it makes sense why people feel like Ash was cheated.

For example in this episode the only reason Go's Scyther evolved was at the mere suggestion of Wikstrom, while that is fine, I can see how people would see Ash getting cheated, because he really didn't get anything of equal value. I don't know if a Pokemon trusting your more fully and learning a new move is equal to the same thing but with an added evolution or just an evolution.

I mean sure Scyther didn't learn a new move, and kind of already trusted Go, I guess Evolution was being nice to Go, but even so Farfetch'd evolves through battling of specific conditions its weird that it was not triggered, thus I can see from a viewer's perspective Ash was cheated. Though not necessarily in a way where Go is thrown under the bus. But it's weird that Wikstrom went out of his way to help Go evolve his Scyther, but didn't necessarily have anything to really say or do for Ash. No "Your Farfetch'd is really strong, it'll definitely end up being a strong Pokemon, that I will be afraid of if you reach high in the Ultra Rank." Just the generalized speech that was for Go as well and then evolve Scyther. And it's weird because Wikstrom was more heavily invested into Ash and Farfetch'd than Go and Scyther so its weird Wikstrom at the end didn't express anything to Ash.

I feel like if Wikstrom used his own Scizor, then I think this would have largely mitigated the narrative issues that this episode was dealing with because maybe there could've been a scene of Scyther being impressed with Scizor, prompting Wikstrom to then ask Go if he would like to evolve his Scyther.

Instead it was more like:

Writer 1: Go has to have a team change somehow. We can't go with an episode without a team change (even though we have in the past)
Writer 2: EVOLVE THE SCYTHER!!!
Wikstrom- Go, evolve Scyther!!!!!!
Go's Pokedex: Pokedex updated

It feels largely artificial given the episode's structure, but yeah sure, fine Go "deserved" something out of the training whereas Ash did get "detect" and "Farfetch'd trusting Ash" I don't know if I quite agree they are equal given Ash's Farfetch'd logically made more sense to evolve whereas you had to go out of your way to evolve Go's Scyther (narratively), but I guess if Ash's Farfetch'd did evolve on top of it, it wouldn't be an equal dual protagonist situation even though the anime clearly doesn't care about that.
 

Watershuriken97

Well-Known Member
Also I don't like when people use double standard on situations where it shouldn't apply. Ash only entered contests for example primarily due to his Pokemon or other characters.
But doesn't this sentence alone 100% justify goh and scythers involvement? Goh also only did what it wanted.... and ash and goh are different people, so the frequency is not an argument since your variables, the trainer and pokemon, aren't the same
 
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