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Everyone's Fully Powered! The Road to the Semifinals!! (1077)

Mag Prime

The Pokemon Avenger
Well, Gladion is definitely beating Kaki. Which means that Ash's next two opponents are Guzma>Gladion. I want him to win both and actually win the league for a change but he could actually lose at either match tbh.

They probably don't want Guzma to completely win the league but Gladion is there at the finals to stop him so the door is open for Ash to lose this tbh. Even if Guzma could beat Gladion, Kukui would beat him afterwards so that's still a possibility.

I'd put the Ash vs Guzma odds at 70-30, the Gladion vs Kaki odds at 95-5. For the final I'd put Gladion vs Ash at 70-30, Gladion vs Guzma at 80-20, Kaki vs Ash at 50-50 and Kaki vs Guzma at 50-50.

As for Royal Mask, I'd say it's 100-0 against Guzma and 95-5 against everyone else. Our boy, Ash's chances are slim :D
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Honestly, no one would've exaggerated if Primarina wasn't so feminine.

For a series that didn't include such intense battles, I found the episode actually disturbing to watch at some point. Pokémon being a kids show mainly; approaching a theme that doesn't differ much from 'cruelty' including a Pokémon with very strong feminine characteristics wasn't a wise choice in my sincere opinion.

In short, if it was any Pokémon but Primarina, the battle wouldn't feel as much disturbing. Granted, Primarina is one of my favorites and it was tough to watch, but I can't imagine all the little kids having to go through this.

Little kids will not care, yall are just reading to deep into things to find subtext where there is none, it was a burtal battle, nothing more
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
Well, Gladion is definitely beating Kaki. Which means that Ash's next two opponents are Guzma>Gladion. I want him to win both and actually win the league for a change but he could actually lose at either match tbh.

They probably don't want Guzma to completely win the league but Gladion is there at the finals to stop him so the door is open for Ash to lose this tbh. Even if Guzma could beat Gladion, Kukui would beat him afterwards so that's still a possibility.

I'd put the Ash vs Guzma odds at 70-30, the Gladion vs Kaki odds at 95-5. For the final I'd put Gladion vs Ash at 70-30, Gladion vs Guzma at 80-20, Kaki vs Ash at 50-50 and Kaki vs Guzma at 50-50.

As for Royal Mask, I'd say it's 100-0 against Guzma and 95-5 against everyone else. Our boy, Ash's chances are slim :D
I would put Ash's odds of beating Guzma at 80-20, because Ash has something on Guzma that Kiawe and Gladion doesn't: experience. He knows full well that there are trainers that can be just as brutal as Guzma. His traveling experience, and his interactions with brutal trainers are aplenty. He dealt with trainers the likes of Lieutenant Surge, Pokémon Hunter J, Paul, Sho, etc. So if there's anyone who can beat Guzma besides Professor Kukui, it's Ash. Also I don't think the writers would let a character like Guzma make it into the finals, where he would be one step away from destroying Professor Kukui's dream. One more thing that can come to play is Ash's Firium Z Crystal. In the episode titled Guzma the Undefeated, it is said that Ash uses Torrecat against Guzma, and that he loses pace when he sees Professor Kukui in Ash's eyes, so it wouldn't make much sense if Ash uses the Electrium Z Crystal, or the Pikashunium Z Crystal, because that doesn't have any connection between Guzma and Professor Kukui.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
If Ash uses a Z-Move, then Guzma wins, because that's not using your own strength, skill, and experience to win, that's using someone else's power

But I'm sure that the anime is going to forget that little detail, like how Primarina immediately got over the second Throat Chop so it could use Sea God’s Symphonia (which was thankfully destroyed anyway)
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
If Ash uses a Z-Move, then Guzma wins, because that's not using your own strength, skill, and experience to win, that's using someone else's power
Using Z-Moves is using your own strength, that's how they work... Also, Ash wins if Guzma's pokémon are unable to battle, and Guzma wins if Ash's pokémon are unable to battle.

But I'm sure that the anime is going to forget that little detail, like how Primarina immediately got over the second Throat Chop so it could use Sea God’s Symphonia (which was thankfully destroyed anyway)
If we're going by game logic, Throat Chop wears off after a couple of turns, and Z-Moves are not affected by it. Test it yourself, you can just use sound-based Z-Moves after Throat Chop. Z-Moves aren't affected by effects restricting move selection like Taunt, Torment, Encore, Disable, and Throat Chop.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Then it's a good thing the anime doesn't go by game logic and is usually a little more realistic when it comes to battles

Except for the SM league, which operates on its own nonsensical rules, like fully-evolved pokémon almost getting taken out by a single bubble, or Starters being able to take a Z-Move and several repeated attacks without fainting while their evolved self goes down like a ponce
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Yeah, because never being able to speak again after a single Throat Chop makes so much sense... seriously move effects wear off. Marowak could also move again after a while against Gengar. The other stuff is off-topic in this thread and we already talked about that. But Tsareena did not almost go down after a single bubble, that's just nonsensical rubbish, and Primarina was at a higher battling level because Lana trained more.
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Regarding the Kiawe/Sophocoles fight, I know that both Ash and Kiawe have thce Firium Z, but the Fire Z-move would've been better in this situation than the Flying Z-move.
They dedicated a previous episode specifically to Garagara learning to use Dynamic Full Flame, though. Which would in turn imply that, presumably, Lizardon would not be able to do it since it hadn't trained for it.

...Why the same logic doesn't apply for any other Z-Move though, I don't know. The very same Lizardon managed Final Dive Crash just fine on its first try...
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I reckon it's more that they wanted to give Supersonic Skystrike a use in an actual battle, we've already seen Inferno Overdrive a lot and Kiawe will probably use it again against Gladion. Logic would dictate Charizard should be able to use Inferno Overdrive just fine, it once belonged to Kiawe's Kahuna grandfather after all. And as far as I've seen it's primarily the first Z-Move a pokémon learns that they struggle with, additional Z-Moves appear to be a lot easier (like Splintered Stormshards for Lycanroc, Oceanic Operetta for Primarina, Corkscrew Crash for Pikachu, Bloom Doom for Rowlet, and so on).
 

Lightning Bolt

Well-Known Member
If Ash uses a Z-Move, then Guzma wins, because that's not using your own strength, skill, and experience to win, that's using someone else's power

But I'm sure that the anime is going to forget that little detail, like how Primarina immediately got over the second Throat Chop so it could use Sea God’s Symphonia (which was thankfully destroyed anyway)
Z-Move uses someone's else power??? I mean, you literally send your energy to your Pokémon. How is that not using your own strength??
They dedicated a previous episode specifically to Garagara learning to use Dynamic Full Flame, though. Which would in turn imply that, presumably, Lizardon would not be able to do it since it hadn't trained for it.

...Why the same logic doesn't apply for any other Z-Move though, I don't know. The very same Lizardon managed Final Dive Crash just fine on its first try...
Kaki inherited both Lizardon and his Firium-Z from his grandfather. Kiawe's grandfather probably used Lizardon for Grand Trials and since he was a Island King he obviously would use the Fire type Z-Move. The reason Lizardon used Final Dive Crash is because he has used Dynamic Full Flame many times before, while he only used FDC once in the debut, and it was not even in a proper battle. If I recall correctly, that Pokefan scan of the classmates in the Alola League even said Charizard could use both DFF and FDC.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Also as a quick aside I had no idea Lana was so stigmatizef on here. I guess with being a competent female companion who's confident in her abilities with a fully evolved pokemon I shouldn't be surprised. Kinda dumb to me personally but whatever, she hasn't really don't anything to warrant that

I think it's that she was competent without much build up. This is the first time she's lost a battle (or even took a significant amount of damage in one) and she somehow got this far in spite of doing next to no competitive battling prior to the league. Sophocles kind of suffered a similar problem, though they did at least bother to give him a quick crash course, and he did get his ass kicked on a few previous occasions, making it feasible that he did SOME work to get to this level, while Lana leaned a bit too much into just being inherently good without effort (yes I know she trained, but she still almost never BATTLED).

I don't think it's worth HATRED outright, but I do think Lana leans enough on being overwhelmingly positive that she kind of needs clear fallible moments like this.
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Yeah the thing with Suiren is, her entire shtick is being awesome at everything. While it's played as a joke 95% of the time, it's easy to see how that might irk some people.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Yeah the thing with Suiren is, her entire shtick is being awesome at everything. While it's played as a joke 95% of the time, it's easy to see how that might irk some people.
She's good at things that dont matter and have no narrative significance isn't really a big deal. Honestly I cabt even remember specific examples outside her field of expertise other then the obstacle course in that tower.

And "she's never lost a battle" isn't worth much in a series where there's not a lot of battling to begin with. Even more so for the secondary characters
 
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Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
It uses Ultra Aura/Z-Power, not a trainer's energy, because Z-Rings are made from shards of Necrozma's body
I'd say its more that the shards act as a conduit. The power still comes from the pokemon and the trainer. That's the reason given for why you can only use them once per battle, the energy drain on the trainer (as well as the pokemon) is too much to do more.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
I'd say its more that the shards act as a conduit. The power still comes from the pokemon and the trainer. That's the reason given for why you can only use them once per battle, the energy drain on the trainer (as well as the pokemon) is too much to do more.
The Necrozma arc says otherwise

Even though it's the most liberal with Z-Moves and removed the cooldown timer


But it's Filler, so your point is still valid, fair enough
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
They dedicated a previous episode specifically to Marowak learning to use Inferno Overdrive, though. Which would in turn imply that, presumably, Charizard would not be able to do it since it hadn't trained for it.

...Why the same logic doesn't apply for any other Z-Move though, I don't know. The very same Charizard managed Supersonic Skystrike just fine on its first try...
True, though given Kiawe has had Charizard since the start of SM, it might've learned to use Inferno Overdrive prior to SM001 like Turtonator.
 
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