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Evolution discussion

Maruno

Well-Known Member
There are currently thirteen different methods to evolve pokémon (or obtain it in the case of Shedinja):

  • Level up (at a given level or higher)
  • Level up in a specific area
  • Level up with a held item
  • Level up with max beauty - (Feebas)
  • Level up when happy
  • Level up when happy at a certain time of day
  • Level up when a certain gender (at a given level or higher) - (Combee)
  • Level up knowing a certain move
  • Level up with specific pokémon in party - (Mantyke)
  • Evolution stone
  • Evolution stone when a certain gender - (Kirlia, Snorunt)
  • Trading
  • Trading with held item

There are also three factors that may affect which evolved species a pokémon turns into. These two methods are not evolution methods, because the pokémon would evolve via level up regardless of these factors:

  • Personality - (Wurmple)
  • ATK/DEF comparison - (Tyrogue)
  • Having a space in party and a spare Pokéball - (Nincada to Shedinja)

That's all for reference.

This thread is for discussion about the evolution methods. Does one method seem odd to you? Could a method have more to it than we suspect? Got any explanations of how they work? Got issues with the lists above? Post in here.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I consider the evolution by trading methods to be unnatural. No one knows how it actually works (something to do with altering the pokémon's energy while it's inside its pokéball with the trade machine, perhaps?), but I think it can safely be said that trade-evolutions aren't natural - they couldn't possibly occur in nature.

It can also be said that the trade-evolutions distort the pokémon being traded, and produce some really odd quirks. For example, Machoke grows two new arms, Kadabra loses its bushy tail completely, and Clamperl becomes way different. Yes, some level up evolutions can be quite bizarre too, but as far as I recall, almost all trade-evolution (with or without item) pokémon have some really interesting quirks compared to their previous form.

Porygon's evolution is nothing but trade-evolution with items. That's because Porygon is an artificial pokémon, and its upgrade method is designed to take advantage of the trade system (which fiddles with the pokémon's energy in some way). Its second evolution (Porygon2 to Porygon-Z) is most likely the result of the Dubious Disc being very odd, but might it also be in part because Porygon is an artificial pokémon and is generally more susceptible to whatever the trade machine does in the first place (presumably it is, because that's how it is able to upgrade in the first place)?

Can the trade-evolution pokémon be assumed to have a less stable energy pattern, thus allowing it to be messed up enough by the trade process that it triggers an evolution? Following this, trade-evolution with an item pokémon would have more stable energy patterns, but the influence of the held item destabilises it enough to allow the trade machine to make it evolve. All other pokémon are stable regardless.
 

Profesco

gone gently
One thing I wonder about trade evolution with items, or evolution with items in general, is how it goes contrary to the touted point of evolution. The games all say that a Pokemon evolves when it's ready or mature enough to grow in strength (and often size). However, trade evolution and item-driven evolution can happen at the trainer's discretion, anytime he or she wants. Now, going along with the idea that these Pokemon are already less-stable with their energy, does this also mean that their evolutions are no more mature than they are as living creatures (paraphrasing from Professor Rowan, here ^_^)? After all, a newly-hatched Slowpoke can upgrade to a Slowking immediately, with no experiece and barely a breath of life in its body.

EDIT: Oh yeah, nice opening post, Maruno! ^_^
 

Atari

Did it on 'em
[My computer made me re-write this...]

Considering what you said about trade induced evolution, I am wondering why the creators would have never attempted to fix the morphing problem. Obviously, there must have been a time before the trading machine was even invented, meaning unless there was some other cause, none of those pokemon would have existed. Through not fixing the reaction, the inventors of the machine somewhat mastered the effects to fit the pokemon to evolve.

It's also a bit strange that Porygon, a computer/data formed pokemon, would also be affected. Maybe it involves a magnetic affect which happens to go haywire with certain pokemon?
 

mangaeyes

Well-Known Member
I think trading a pokemon (as in the anime its done throught that special machine) must do something to a pokemons genetic structure and this triggers evolution. I think they just did it to make people buy another game to obtain Gengar, Alakazam, Machamp and Golem.
 

Maruno

Well-Known Member
I would have suggested that pokémon that are able to evolve when traded (the ones that have less stable energies while inside their pokéballs) are those that cannot evolve via level up instead. However, Slowpoke does both, so that theory's nonsense.

Nice to see you raised the Slowpoke example too, because I was thinking about that. If the shell is supposed to be a Shellder, where does it come from when the Slowpoke is traded (to evolve it into Slowking)? Then there's the more obvious question of why it evolves via level up in the games without any Shellder around.

If I was feeling adventurous and could alter the games, I'd make fishing with Slowpoke's tail an option (because its tail is supposedly full of nutrients that lots of pokémon would be attracted to). If you caught a Shellder, it evolved (and you can't fish any more with it). Holding the King's Rock at the time would make it evolve into a Slowking.

Perhaps the reason why we have no explanation of how these methods actually work is because it would be a nightmare trying to come up with one.

The nearest I can come is that a pokémon being owned by a trainer is already an unnatural occurrence, so the trainer forcing their pokémon to evolve is also an unnatural occurrence. If the pokémon was in the wild, it would only evolve itself when it felt ready, but when it's owned by a trainer it apparently trusts the trainer enough to control its evolution.


Considering what you said about trade induced evolution, I am wondering why the creators would have never attempted to fix the morphing problem. Obviously, there must have been a time before the trading machine was even invented, meaning unless there was some other cause, none of those pokemon would have existed. Through not fixing the reaction, the inventors of the machine somewhat mastered the effects to fit the pokemon to evolve.

It's also a bit strange that Porygon, a computer/data formed pokemon, would also be affected. Maybe it involves a magnetic affect which happens to go haywire with certain pokemon?
Evolution doesn't necessarily mean improvement (although in the Pokémon games it does). Perhaps the inventors and the ethics committee decided that these mutilations they called evolutions were better than the species they evolved from, so they allowed it "at your own risk". Not to mention that there really should be a way for trainers to swap pokémon anyway (because it's a scenario that would inevitably arise), so it was just allowed to exist out of necessity. If you want to trade a trade-evolution pokémon, either don't give it a held item (if it needs one), or forget it if it's one of the original four.

Besides, only a handful of pokémon evolve when traded, and all but four of those you have to give them the right held item as well. The trading machine works just fine for every other pokémon.

Porygon is still affected because it, like all pokémon, has a special energy signature when stored inside a pokéball, and it can exist in the real world so it has a real body. Perhaps a pokémon is defined as a creature that can be captured by a pokéball (and thus has this special energy). Porygon was initially created as is, and included the ability to be upgraded when traded with a certain held item (to be developed by Porygonics or whoever works on them). That's likely just the way Porygon was designed. What good designer wouldn't allow for a way to upgrade their creation, if such an upgrade were invented in the future?
 

Chagen46

Hell Crasher
Evolving by being happy then leveling up makes no sense. When did being happy get you stronger?
 

Leon

Well-Known Member
My theory on trade evoloution is that it speeds up the process of evolving. For example, Machamp, Gengar etc. would be rare in the wild, as they would take years to evolve. Trading just triggers the cells in hte Pokemon to do so quicker.
 

ChedWick

Well-Known Member
Evolving by being happy then leveling up makes no sense. When did being happy get you stronger?

I don't know about you but when I'm happy I often have more energy and strength than when I'm depressed.



Very nice post by the way. Alot of thought and work obviously went into it.
 

Maruno

Well-Known Member
Evolving by being happy then leveling up makes no sense. When did being happy get you stronger?
It would make more sense (not complete sense, though) if only fairy-type pokémon evolved via happiness, because they're more mysterious and fantastic (meaning fantasy-like). Togetic is apparently full of happiness, so Togepi evolving when happy would make some more sense. The level up part of it is just a handy little trigger, I suppose.

However, a bunch of happy-evolving pokémon aren't really fairies. They are Eevee (to Espeon/Umbreon), Golbat, Budew, Buneary, Munchlax and Riolu (and perhaps also Pichu and Azurill?). Also, not all fairies evolve by happiness (but I can't remember any examples).


My theory on trade evoloution is that it speeds up the process of evolving. For example, Machamp, Gengar etc. would be rare in the wild, as they would take years to evolve. Trading just triggers the cells in hte Pokemon to do so quicker.
Interesting idea. So you're suggesting that the trading machine stimulates certain pokémon in such a way that, instead of invoking mutations and changes, the pokémon would suddenly become wiser/more powerful/gain years of experience? And once the pokémon has been stimulated like that, it evolves as it would naturally (and as such it is incorrectly classified as evolution by trading).

But is this "years of training" different to having a high level (e.g. at level 60)? A pokémon's level can be seen to be a measure of its strength/power/training, and so a lot of training would be equivalent to a high level. How would Machoke and Haunter and the rest of the gang evolve in the wild, then, if not by level? Some other hidden factor, perhaps?
 
Very nice post by the way. Alot of thought and work obviously went into it.

LOL at fail insult.

The whole idea of baby evolution does not make sense. For example, Munchlax isn't in Kanto, so what happens when two Snorlax breed in Kanto? Does a Snorlax come out? Does a Munchlax come out? Does a rabid hippopotamus come out?

Pogeymanz are weird.
 

mangaeyes

Well-Known Member
They need an item to breed with and then they make that baby pokemon. They add the new item in the new region with the new baby and theres your explanation:)
 

Chagen46

Hell Crasher
They need an item to breed with and then they make that baby pokemon. They add the new item in the new region with the new baby and theres your explanation:)

SO GF is basically lazy as sh*t as in they don't provide an explanation as to why you couldn't get the baby earlier, and instead throw a item in there and call it a day.

That's what you are saying, right?
 

Maruno

Well-Known Member
GameFreaks seems to like being consistent, which means they dislike having a situation in which one thing could happen in one Generation, and another thing in another Generation (such as getting a Munchlax (Gen 4) or a Snorlax (Gen 2, 3) from breeding). To try to get around this, they invented the idea of having different kinds of Incense being held by one of the breeding pokémon which provokes the creation of the baby pokémon (Munchlax) rather than its evolved form (Snorlax). Without all these types of Incense, breeding in Generation 4 is identical to breeding in Generations 3 and 2.

I do agree that the idea of Incense influencing a breeding couple to produce one pokémon instead of another is pure nonsense. However, that's just the way it is. I do hate this idea of consistency across Generations, but that's what we've got (barring a couple of accidental exceptions, such as the Lickitung and Piloswine evolutions being possible but not occurring in Generation 3). Incense-affected breeding is nothing more than an excuse by GameFreaks to allow them to keep some kind of continuity throughout the games.

Breeding, as far as I can see, does not fall under the category of evolutions, so this is all off-topic.
 

Lin Kong Shu

Infestation.
Well, one thing that i find weird, is - why does as Eevee evolve, into to different pokémon, on one point of the day? Only on happines?
Is it like, the pokémon that thinks: "Wow, now it's dark. Yay, i wanna glow."
I kind of can't get it, though. Although... If the suns rays, is what provoke the it, and no sunlight, in an other? Any ideas?
 

Kikas123

What 'bout My Star?
The one thing I find very weird is why does the Everstone interrupts ALL evolution?
Does it have some mystical power, or does the Pokemon think "HEy, I'm holdin' a Rock! I can't evolve now, 'cause I'm holdin' a rock!"
 

jellsprout

Well-Known Member
One thing I wonder about trade evolution with items, or evolution with items in general, is how it goes contrary to the touted point of evolution. The games all say that a Pokemon evolves when it's ready or mature enough to grow in strength (and often size). However, trade evolution and item-driven evolution can happen at the trainer's discretion, anytime he or she wants. Now, going along with the idea that these Pokemon are already less-stable with their energy, does this also mean that their evolutions are no more mature than they are as living creatures (paraphrasing from Professor Rowan, here ^_^)? After all, a newly-hatched Slowpoke can upgrade to a Slowking immediately, with no experiece and barely a breath of life in its body.

EDIT: Oh yeah, nice opening post, Maruno! ^_^

Items=hormone shots.
 

AstralEon

The one and only.
Well, one thing that i find weird, is - why does as Eevee evolve, into to different pokémon, on one point of the day? Only on happines?
Is it like, the pokémon that thinks: "Wow, now it's dark. Yay, i wanna glow."
I kind of can't get it, though. Although... If the suns rays, is what provoke the it, and no sunlight, in an other? Any ideas?

Mabey because Umbreon Espeon evoultion needs to be happiness because it needs to be trusted to become one of those two.

If you noticed:

Vaporeon, Flareon, Jolteon: requires a stone.

Umbreon Espeon: specific time of day.

Leafeon, Glaceon: a certain place.

Just bringing that up...
 
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KaylaTheHedgehog

Active Member
I really don't understand the reasoning behind Eevee not being able to evolve to Espeon and Umbreon unless it's happy enough. It could've just as easily been done with a Sun Stone and Moon Stone, respectively, and it would've kept the evolutionary line consistant. At least until Leafeon and Glaceon came along, and the former of those could've been taken care of with a Leaf Stone.
 
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