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Explain to me the cons of basing our culture off religion.

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God does not intervene in the affairs of man, but God has given us the tool with which we might overcome evil. That tool is reason.

But what if he knows enough to understand what choices you would take based on your upbringing?

And if you believe in a god that directly creates us (or knew we would come into existence at least), you have to admit that some amount of free will at least drops to what it could have potentially been.
The predictive power of a Deity would not influence your decisions or lead you down one path sooner than another.

I must admit that I don't understand the bit about our having less free will than we could otherwise have.
 

Tim the turtle

Happy Mudkip
Uh, yeah. What's your point?

Argh, sorry, this thread is moving far too fast. That wasn't aimed at you Pokejustice but the post before yours.
 
There's no more evidence for determinism, even casual determinism, than exists for libertarianism. It looks like you need to clear your mind of fatalistic thought before you reexamine modern metaphysics.
 

Tim the turtle

Happy Mudkip
I wasn't actually making the case for either, my comment above was more of the "what are you getting at?" type than any sort of endorsement of either view. I used the word yeah, but it wasn't actually meant to signify anything proper.
 

Tim the turtle

Happy Mudkip
Fair enough.

Of course, I've just realised the essential uselessness of my point. A deterministic universe would, by definition, not allow free will anyway, so arguing the free will that god could give in such a scenario is pointless.

Mind you I do work in the Department of Redundancy Department.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
PokeJustice said:
I must admit that I don't understand the bit about our having less free will than we could otherwise have.
Let's put it like this: A person who is born poor, in an unstable family vs a guy who was born in a rich, stable family. If we put 1,000 people in each of these environments, you will find a pattern of choices that they will make throughout life... compared to say, giving them the exact same environment.

In other words, free will still exists.. it's just handicapped.
 
In other words, free will still exists.. it's just handicapped.
I would argue that this is not a handicap of free will. We are capable of acting outside of the determinate nature of physical preconditions and laws, despite being under the influence of the former and being burdened by the latter.
 

Profesco

gone gently
We've pretty much fallen off the map in this thread. Determinism, while interesting, is overdone, off-topic, and, within the realm of this section's ability to communicate, inconclusive. I think this thread has run its course.

New debates can always be made.
 
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