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Extra-Terrestrial Life : Are we Alone?

He strikes again...
200px-Trollface.png


Anyway, yes, the Bible states that God created EARTH and EARTH alone, so therefore, these other planets came around from evolution and no life exists on it.
 

littlea53

Prince of Darkness
Please, do not feed the trolls.
 

Gelatino95

Not a tool
As far as I know from my biology class, life on earth began with reactions in the earth's primitive atmosphere catalyzed by lightning strikes, creating bubbles made of phospholipid bilayers. These bubbles, by chance and chance alone, became cells of microbes when sustainable reactions became occuring inside, creating RNA and the very first organelles. Even today, all cells have a membrane made of a phospholipid bilayer. The conditions under which an event like this could occur are very specific: the earth's atmosphere had a specific balance of gases at this time allowing the necessary reactions to take place.

In that case, it's highly, highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely that another planet could simulate an event that could create cells like this. Even if, by some crazy amount of luck, a planet was able to stage the beginning of cells in a similar way, alien organisms would evolve in a much different way than humans due to different environmental conditions.

Building off of that, let's say that aliens were able to evolve in exactly the same environment as earth (which is nigh impossible, but it's just an example). Even if this was the case, there's a VERY high chance that natural selection would take this alien's evolution in a different direction than humans. Nature can find different solutions to the same problem, and as I always say, pretty much everything in nature is driven by chance and chance alone. It's a miracle that humans were able to evolve into what we are today.
 

pikapikachiu

Well-Known Member
well this other planet doesnt have to be too simliar to earth. an anaerobic organism could possibly evolve into something else that can utilize different gases. But the probability of another planet with something living is possible since the universe is like infinitely vast.
 

Litovoi

Astral Shadow
There is almost certainly intelligent life SOMEWHERE out there. There are billions upon billions of planets out there. The chance of life appearing on at least one of these planets is extremely high. After all, the more times you roll a dice, the greater the chance of getting a six.

Life has proven on Earth that it can evolve to match any climate, all it needs to survive is water and atmosphere. Life can start from small cells stored on a meteor, and when the universe was just starting out, almost all the planest were plagued by meteors. The chance of other planets getting these cells are extremely high. And the chances are high that atleast some of these cells were able to thrive and evolve, eventually becoming creatures.

As for intelligent life forms, they might have visited Earth before. There was one time that a probe-like device crashed off in some woods. People went there, attracted by the explosion, and found a strange cylinder in the middle of a crater. In only a couple of hours, the government arrived and took the object away. When questioned about the device, the government said it was a thruster from a rocket. A few weeks later, however, they changed their story and said it was a satellite. They were clearly hiding something.

I could go on, but I think this post is big enough.
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
All these theories about the government covering up aliens is ridiculous. Yes, they are hiding something, but not aliens. They don't want people to know about crashes and things not because it's a UFO but because they don't want foreign powers to know what military technology they're building. Most of these "UFOs" are secret military aircraft.
 

Litovoi

Astral Shadow
I didn't say they were aliens, I actually think that in most cases it IS military craft. But its not ridiculous that the government would cover up aliens. If people found out about aliens, it most likely would cause mass panic, and the government may want to cover that up.
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
I didn't say they were aliens, I actually think that in most cases it IS military craft. But its not ridiculous that the government would cover up aliens. If people found out about aliens, it most likely would cause mass panic, and the government may want to cover that up.

You may be right about that, but the fact is that the likelihood of alien contact is extremely, extremely low. So the government has nothing to cover up.
 

Litovoi

Astral Shadow
You may be right about that, but the fact is that the likelihood of alien contact is extremely, extremely low. So the government has nothing to cover up.

True. And if aliens HAVE visited us...then they clearly are more advanced than us. Which makes it odd that so many people want to establish contact with these aliens, what if they aren't friendly? What if we do something that ticks them off?
 

Hejiru

Rev up those fryers
True. And if aliens HAVE visited us...then they clearly are more advanced than us. Which makes it odd that so many people want to establish contact with these aliens, what if they aren't friendly? What if we do something that ticks them off?

I remember someone saying once that it would be a similar situation to when the European settlers met the Native Americans. Didn't work out so well for the Native Americans.
 

Litovoi

Astral Shadow
^I remember hearing that somewhere as well. And lets not forget all those scifi shows, where the less intelligent beings got killed/enslaved/eaten. I wouldn't mind some very intelligent allies.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Yes, I do believe in alien life forms, but I think they would either be microscopic organisms, or kingdoms nothing like anything on Earth. They would probably of evolved on whole different planets, light years away from Earth, so they probably wouldn't be much like the creatures here. Comparing them to us would be like comparing us to trees on a much larger scale.
 

The Red Thunder

Backwards thinking?
Stephen Hawking said it best:

Stephen Hawking said:
Wherever I go in the world, people ask me, "Do aliens exist?" It's a good question because it cuts to the heart of how we see our place in the universe. Are we alone on our small, round, blue ball? I think probably not, because of one fact: the universe is big. Really big.

Our planet is just one of eight in orbit around our sun. Which itself is hardly special, being one of 200,000,000,000 stars in a vast spiral; our galaxy, the Milky Way. [...] But even the Milky Way is just a tiny drop in the cosmic ocean, just one of 100,000,000,000 galaxies formed into an enormous web stretching away in all directions. At this scale, each point of light is an entire galaxy. Which not only puts our little world in perspective, but also makes it difficult to believe we really are alone.

So to my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational.

Taken from the first episode of "Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking". Fantastic documentary. And, he goes into talking about the possibility of intelligent life as well, if you're interested. I really suggest watching it.

Personally, I couldn't have said it better myself. In the face of such massive numbers, how can you honestly even consider that this is the only place with life? Also, it's been said that if we do find other places with life or even places that can support life as we know it, odds are more apt that it'll be a moon, rather than a planet. This is because there are far more moons that we know about than there are planets. In fact, one of Jupiter's moons, Europa is covered in water, with a fifteen mile thick sheet of ice over the top. It is believed that underneath the ice is a vast ocean of water, heated by the core of the moon as well as Jupiter's gravity having a "kneading" effect due to Europa's orbit.

Stephen Hawking also says later in that same episode:

Stephen Hawking said:
And if governments are involved in a cover up, they're doing a much better job at it than they seem to do at anything else.
 
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Ludwig

Well-Known Member
I have a vague memory of reading that bacteria have already been found in Mars' atmosphere. Can someone confirm this and supply a source? If yes, do it.
 

Mrs Mime

a little haphazard
As far as I know from my biology class, life on earth began with reactions in the earth's primitive atmosphere catalyzed by lightning strikes, creating bubbles made of phospholipid bilayers. These bubbles, by chance and chance alone, became cells of microbes when sustainable reactions became occuring inside, creating RNA and the very first organelles. Even today, all cells have a membrane made of a phospholipid bilayer. The conditions under which an event like this could occur are very specific: the earth's atmosphere had a specific balance of gases at this time allowing the necessary reactions to take place.

In that case, it's highly, highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely that another planet could simulate an event that could create cells like this. Even if, by some crazy amount of luck, a planet was able to stage the beginning of cells in a similar way, alien organisms would evolve in a much different way than humans due to different environmental conditions.

Building off of that, let's say that aliens were able to evolve in exactly the same environment as earth (which is nigh impossible, but it's just an example). Even if this was the case, there's a VERY high chance that natural selection would take this alien's evolution in a different direction than humans. Nature can find different solutions to the same problem, and as I always say, pretty much everything in nature is driven by chance and chance alone. It's a miracle that humans were able to evolve into what we are today.

Excellent post, this.

Anyway most people innately see things anthropomorphically, even the idea of aliens. Even when we look at animals we attribute human emotions on them.

For all we know aliens are furry Venus fly-trap creatures intelligent in a way unknown to us, with a diet of spiky jumping terrestrial eel-like creatures with bunny ears. I assume they eat, since they'd surely need to acquire energy.... but then, most plants don't technically 'eat' but create energy.

Possibilities are endless, but common sense says it's too specific to say they've evolved to have the same desires and traits as humans.
 
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The Red Thunder

Backwards thinking?
We are not alone. I believe in extra-terrestrial life. Ailens exist, the government/air force probably just covers it up.

Then, perhaps you could explain to me how the governments manage to cover up alien existance so well, when they can't seem to wipe their own behinds without bickering about what toilet paper to use.

From what we know of the universe, Earth is the only planet that can sustain life. Therefore from our limited knowledge we can say that atleast for a couple million light-years, the living beings on earth is the only life in this sector of the universe. However, living things on earth are carbon-based life-forms, a different sort of based-life can be out there somewhere in the universe.

As a Bible-believing Christian, there is mention of 'fallen angels', these demons can be what us humans define as 'alien'.

Exactly, from what we know. As you said, our knowledge is limited. Any cosmologist or astrophysicist will tell you that we know very little in relation to the entirety of the universe.

Also, I want to point out that "millions of light-years" isn't really that big of a length. Consider that the CLOSEST galaxy to the Milky Way, the Andromeda Galaxy, is 2.5 million light-years away. That's the closest one of several billions. In comparison, Andromeda is in our back yard.

That'd be very rare since then the planet they live on would have to be exactly the same as our planet. They probably won't be like the aliens in sci-fi movies, but I don't think they'll look like us.

Here's what we know. All life as we know it requires liquid water. We know that water is quite commonly found in the universe, but most of it is frozen. Jupiter's moon of Europa is one such case, being completely covered in water and ice. It's believed that Europa's ice actually covers a vast ocean of water underneath, which is kept as liquid water due to the heat of the moon's core, as well as it's eliptical orbit around Jupiter (which has a "kneading" effect on the moon, heating it up). We also know that each star has a "Goldilocks" zone, where it's not too hot, and not too cold. Just warm enough for water to exist as a liquid.

I also want to point out that we have already found earth-like planets out there. Gliese 581g is one such planet.

Note that Gliese c, g and d are located in the [Habitable Zone] of Gliese 581. Because Gliese 581 g is located near the center of this zone and is very likely to be warm enough for there to be liquid water, which is an essential ingredient for life. Gliese 581c may be too hot and Gliese 581 d may be too cold.

As far as I know from my biology class, life on earth began with reactions in the earth's primitive atmosphere catalyzed by lightning strikes, creating bubbles made of phospholipid bilayers. These bubbles, by chance and chance alone, became cells of microbes when sustainable reactions became occuring inside, creating RNA and the very first organelles. Even today, all cells have a membrane made of a phospholipid bilayer. The conditions under which an event like this could occur are very specific: the earth's atmosphere had a specific balance of gases at this time allowing the necessary reactions to take place.

In that case, it's highly, highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely that another planet could simulate an event that could create cells like this. Even if, by some crazy amount of luck, a planet was able to stage the beginning of cells in a similar way, alien organisms would evolve in a much different way than humans due to different environmental conditions.

Building off of that, let's say that aliens were able to evolve in exactly the same environment as earth (which is nigh impossible, but it's just an example). Even if this was the case, there's a VERY high chance that natural selection would take this alien's evolution in a different direction than humans. Nature can find different solutions to the same problem, and as I always say, pretty much everything in nature is driven by chance and chance alone. It's a miracle that humans were able to evolve into what we are today.

I won't deny that it's very unlikely, but I will preface it by saying that you can't even begin to fathom the sheer number of chances the universe has taken at creating life. But, as unlikely as it is, we're living proof that life has happened before. It also means we're living proof that life CAN happen elsewhere if given the right conditions. And, considering just HOW insanely large our universe is, the "unlikliness" of life happening ... isn't really all that small, actually. Our planet is proof that the conditions can be met.

If you can muster it, try to consider just how many STARS there are in the universe. We estimate that our Milky Way Galaxy has roughly 100,000,000,000 stars. We also know that our closest galactic neighbor, the Andromeda Galaxy, is MUCH larger than ours is. Between those two galaxies alone, it's not that big of a stretch to believe that there's roughly half a trillion stars. Now, consider that big-name physicists like Stephen Hawking guess that our universe has a couple hundred billion GALAXIES in it.

For each of the countless stars, burning away in each of the billions of galaxies, having countless more planets that orbit them and countless more moons that orbit the planet ... as "unlikely" as it seems for life to happen, and even if we are the only planet in the entire Milky Way Galaxy that has life, there are still more chances for it to happen than any one of us humans can possibly comprehend. Now, if your mind hasn't yet been blown, consider that our universe is roughly 13.7 billion years old. Just how many chances do you think that our universe has taken at creating "life-sustaining" planets over the course of that 13.7 billion year span?

I'm not saying that it's not unlikely for life to have happened. I'm just trying to point out that as unlikely as it seems for life to exist, it's exponentially more unlikely for life outside Earth to have NEVER happened anywhere in the entire history of this universe.
 
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andregon

Well-Known Member
1) I believe life is common in the Universe (the probabilities are to high)

2) About Inteligent life forms trying to contact us: Even if they did, they may be extinct by the time their signal reaches Earth.

3) Alien abduction: rofl. If they have the technology to reach the Earth, a technology that allows them to travel nearly invisible to our eyes, just for the purpose of studying us, WHY THE HECK DON'T THEY USE THEIR TECHNOLOGY TO ACCESS OUR INTERNET? Why don't they just ask the research notes of a researcher? Why they don't abduct scientific and/or medical books? Are they so stupid they don't realize we can give them what they want if they ask politely?

Yeah Mars is much smaller than earth, this caused it's core to cool quicker. No hot core = no magnetic field. (the field is generated by the mantle and core moving) No magnetic field = no protection from solar flares.. this blew the atmosphere off the planet over millions of years.

How do I know this.

Why do you only talk about Mars? How about the moons of Jupiter and Saturn?
Europa, Enceladus or Titan.
Those moons may sustain life and we may have better luck searching for foreign life forms in those places than Mars or Venus.
 
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The Red Thunder

Backwards thinking?
Why do you only talk about Mars? How about the moons of Jupiter and Saturn?
Europa, Enceladus or Titan.
Those moons may sustain life and we may have better luck searching for foreign life forms in those places than Mars or Venus.

When looking for something, it's often best to start with what you know about it. We know that all life (as we know it) requires liquid water. Yes, it's theoretically possible for life to require some other liquid (like a nitrogen-based compound, instead of dihydrogen oxide), but there's no need to use the uncommon theories, when we have yet to even exhaust the possibilities based on what we know to be true. So let's just stick to what we know about life, in that all life (as we know it) requires liquid water, and using that as the prime critera for our search, let's look around our solar system.

It is theoretically possible (dare I say, even plausible) for liquid water to exist underneath Europa's ice; thereby creating a situation where life could possibly exist. But we have no way to actually prove it's existence as of yet. It's simply too far away for us to explore. Mars, however, we have the technology to explore. People tend to talk about Mars because, unlike Europa and Titan (and the other moons of the gas giants), it lies within our solar system's habitable zone (the area just far enough away from the Sun for water to exist as a liquid, not as ice or steam). Earth and Mars are the only two celestial objects within our solar system that reside within this zone all the time; unless you count our moon which we've proven has no life.

That's often why people believe that if we were to find life outside Earth, they believe Mars would be the first place to find it, even if we only find fossils of old life. It's not that people aren't taking other possibilities into account, it's just that we haven't fully explored the only other celestial object that rests within our Sun's habitable zone.
 
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MetalFlygon08

Haters Gonna Hate
And doesn't Mars have those Polar Ice Caps, and evidence of River Beds.


Mars might've been a Future Earth, that had some sort of Genocidal Disaster, wiping life from the surface (Meteor, Volcanic Activity, other Aliens) heck while we were still curly blobs in the pool of life. Mars could've been decades ahead of were we are now.
 
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