Fairy-Type Trickery! (877)

[Vernikova]

So basically spoil all potential surprise and suspense by having us know exactly what Ash is going to do to overcome Trick Room before the battle even starts.

Or show that it's possible in the anime, so it doesn't look like you've pulled it from your *** when it's done in a Gym battle?

Judging from the widley negative reception this gym has gotten apprentley im just gonna assume people dont know what they want in a Gym battle and leave it at that.

Yeah, how dare people not swallow things that have been pulled out of asses!

 

[KalosQueenSerena]

It was a really great battle!

 

[phanpycross]

For my money Fletchinder was still the star if this battle, althrough it was kinda impressive how hawlucha managed to survive until the damage of Fletchinder's steel wing took effect, and spritzee fainted.

 

[Pikachu52]

So basically it sucked because Pikachu wasn't spammed and gloryhogged for the umpteenth time in a Gym Battle in XY. Not saying this was one of the better Gym Battles in XY, it wasn't, but Pikachu not being used was one of the better aspects of this Gym.
I'm more surprised people think Type-Advantage is still this end all factor after having watched this anime for years now.

Basically yes - I would personally have preferred Pikachu to battle rather than Hawlucha. I think it would have made more sense to use Pikachu for two reasons

1. Pikachu knows Iron tail, which is a steel type move and therefore super effective on
2. Ash's two remaining Pokémon Hawlucha and Froggadire are both at a serious disadvantage against fairy type Pokémon.

That's just common sense. I also think Hawlucha was way too OP - There's no way he should have been able to survive the direct hit from Moonblast given Pikachu couldn't take Focus blast from Excadrill a generation previously.

I don't honestly see why people don't like Pikachu's spotlight in this series - he's Ash's oldest and closest partner and he's probably the strongest Pokémon Ash has except prehaps Charizard. It makes sense for him to have the spotlight - It's not as if he's won every battle of the series.

 

[Soniman]

Or show that it's possible in the anime, so it doesn't look like you've pulled it from your *** when it's done in a Gym battle?

I love how every time Ash uses any sort of context-sensitive surprise strategy it's an *** pull no matter what it is. Ash didnt randomly come up with this strategy on the fly with no forewarning, he came up with it after obvserving Trick Room and it's effects on Flechinder, sees Spritzee's gyro ball and decided to take advantage of it's speed with Hawlucha, THI WAS ALL DONE FROM OBSERVATION AND BASIC TRAINER PROBLEM SOLVING. Hawlucha had a fourth move that was hidden? So what? It didnt instantly decide the match. People want a more competent Ash who can win battles with his smarts but like I said, apparently that's not what people want anymore. Not every single strategy Ash uses has to have episodes worth of foreshadowing to be legitimate.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Basically yes - I would personally have preferred Pikachu to battle rather than Hawlucha.

You lost me at Pikachu. Mouse had his prime one time too many previously.

 

[Vernikova]

I love how every time Ash uses any sort of context-sensitive surprise strategy it's an *** pull no matter what it is.

There's a difference between "hey, I'm going to use Flare Blitz to out-speed once Trick Room wears off" and "let me cut Trick Room using X-Scissor; this has never been noted to be possible before this episode, by the way! how convenient for Hawlucha to have this never-before-seen Bug-type move to take advantage of this never-alluded-to weakness." The former is clever strategy, and the latter is **** spewing from the writers' fingers.

Ash didnt randomly come up with this strategy on the fly with no forewarning, he came up with it after obvserving Trick Room and it's effects on Flechinder, sees Spritzee's gyro ball and decided to take advantage of it's speed with Hawlucha, THI WAS ALL DONE FROM OBSERVATION AND BASIC TRAINER PROBLEM SOLVING. Hawlucha had a fourth move that was hidden? So what? It didnt instantly decide the match. People want a more competent Ash who can win battles with his smarts but like I said, apparently that's not what people want anymore. Not every single strategy Ash uses has to have episodes worth of foreshadowing to be legitimate.

You're arguing with a ghost. No one is saying him using Gyro Ball to speed up Hawlucha into breaking Trick Room is the asspull. The asspull is X-Scissor being able to break Trick Room in the first place. He came up with it after seeing the writers pull this weakness right from their asses when Hawlucha crashed into the wall. I mean, yeah, who cares about X-Scissor appearing out of nowhere? Sure, this move conveniently cripples Valerie's Trick Room strategy (her primary startegy with that Pokemon) that Ash had to actually think around before discovering this convenient weakness. I didn't realize for Ash to be competent, the writers had to pull out things like "btw, X-Scissor can break Trick Room." And yes, Trick Room being able to be broken by Bug-type moves has to be alluded to. It doesn't even have to be Trick Room. X-Scissor breaking other Psychic-type barrier moves can be enough.

 

[Soniman]

There's a difference between "hey, I'm going to use Flare Blitz to out-speed once Trick Room wears off" and "let me cut Trick Room using X-Scissor; this has never been noted to be possible before this episode, by the way! how convenient for Hawlucha to have this never-before-seen Bug-type move to take advantage of this never-alluded-to weakness." The former is clever strategy, and the latter is **** spewing from the writers' fingers.

Psychic has never been known to be weak to bug type moves, got it.

You're arguing with a ghost. No one is saying him using Gyro Ball to speed up Hawlucha into breaking Trick Room is the asspull. The asspull is X-Scissor being able to break Trick Room in the first place. He came up with it after seeing the writers pull this weakness right from their asses when Hawlucha crashed into the wall. I mean, yeah, who cares about X-Scissor appearing out of nowhere? Sure, this move conveniently cripples Valerie's Trick Room strategy (her primary startegy with that Pokemon) that Ash had to actually think around before discovering this convenient weakness. I didn't realize for Ash to be competent, the writers had to pull out things like "btw, X-Scissor can break Trick Room." And yes, Trick Room being able to be broken by Bug-type moves has to be alluded to. It doesn't even have to be Trick Room. X-Scissor breaking other Psychic-type barrier moves can be enough.

It's literraly just "bug type move overcomes psychic moves due to weakeness" like how whenever you see water vs fire type move struggle, water ALWAYS wins.. This is exactly the same principle. Last I checked this type weakness wasnt something the writers made up, it's from the games. Hawlucha knowing X Scissor doesnt really change anything, it wouldn've had made much of a diffrence if we saw it one or two epiosdes prior as the end result wouldve been the same. And it would be one thing if the move decided the match, but. it. did. not? Like it wasnt a move Hawlucha learned at the 11th hour to get a sudden upper hand, it was used throughout the gym match with varying degress of sucess. And I stress again, I WASNT A STRATEGY ASH MADE UP ON THE FLY LIKE YOU SEEM TO THINK. It wasnt "conveinent", Ash say the that X Scissor had a noticable effect and he had to find a way to use it effectivley on Trick Room and so he monotoplized on Spritzee's own speed to make it happen. HE PLANNED ALL THE STEPS NECCESSARY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN THE VICTORY DIDNT JUST FALL IN HIS LAP.

 

[Lord Trollbias]

Basically yes - I would personally have preferred Pikachu to battle rather than Hawlucha. I think it would have made more sense to use Pikachu given he was the only one of Ash's remaining Pokémon after fletchlinder who wasn't at a disadvantage and the only one who knows an effective move for fairy types. That's just common sense. I also think Hawlucha was way too OP - There's no way he should have been able to survive the direct hit from Moonblast. I don't honestly see why people don't like Pikachu's spotlight in this series - he's Ash's oldest and closest partner and he's probably the strongest Pokémon Ash has except prehaps Charizard. It makes sense for him to have the spotlight - It's not as if he's won every battle

Good for you. I'm even happier Pikachu wasn't used then.

 

[Vernikova]

Psychic has never been known to be weak to bug type moves, got it.

It must be difficult to play this dense just to excuse bad writing.

It's literraly just "bug type move overcomes psychic moves due to weakeness" like how whenever you see water vs fire type move struggle, water ALWAYS wins.. This is exactly the same principle. Last I checked this type weakness wasnt something the writers made up, it's from the games. Hawlucha knowing X Scissor doesnt really change anything, it wouldn've had made much of a diffrence if we saw it one or two epiosdes prior as the end result wouldve been the same. And it would be one thing if the move decided the match, but. it. did. not? Like it wasnt a move Hawlucha learned at the 11th hour to get a sudden upper hand, it was used throughout the gym match with varying degress of sucess. And I stress again, I WASNT A STRATEGY ASH MADE UP ON THE FLY LIKE YOU SEEM TO THINK. It wasnt "conveinent", Ash say the that X Scissor had a noticable effect and he had to find a way to use it effectivley on Trick Room and so he monotoplized on Spritzee's own speed to make it happen. HE PLANNED ALL THE STEPS NECCESSARY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN THE VICTORY DIDNT JUST FALL IN HIS LAP.

Yes, we get the writers' thought process when they decided to do this. Type weakness isn't something they made up, correct; X-Scissor breaking Trick Room was something they made up right there. From everyone's reactions to Ash breaking it, you could tell it's something no one had any knowledge of it being possible; Valerie's shocked expression,everyone on the sidelines left speechless--all that was missing was Liza shouting "how is that even possible?" Hinting at it wouldn't have make a difference? It goes from something not known to be possible with people calling it bad writing to "oh, the writers have already established this as possible, so it's okay for Ash to do this." Look at this: "it wouldn't have made a difference if the writers established that this could be possible beforehand." Like what?

Hawlucha was shown to be able to use the move at the start of the battle; it's the very definition of an eleventh hour superpower. Like literally what are you talking about? Taking out Trick Room gave Ash a huge boost in that battle. Just because it didn't give Ash the victory doesn't mean it was something that had a small effect.

 

[BJack]

Basically yes - I would personally have preferred Pikachu to battle rather than Hawlucha. I think it would have made more sense to use Pikachu given he was the only one of Ash's remaining Pokémon after fletchlinder who wasn't at a disadvantage and the only one who knows an effective move for fairy types. That's just common sense. I also think Hawlucha was way too OP - There's no way he should have been able to survive the direct hit from Moonblast. I don't honestly see why people don't like Pikachu's spotlight in this series - he's Ash's oldest and closest partner and he's probably the strongest Pokémon Ash has except prehaps Charizard. It makes sense for him to have the spotlight - It's not as if he's won every battle

Pikachu is the most generic thing ever. Bring the Luchador Bird.

 

[Navin]

Hawlucha was shown to be able to use the move at the start of the battle; it's the very definition of an eleventh hour superpower. Like literally what are you talking about? Taking out Trick Room gave Ash a huge boost in that battle. Just because it didn't give Ash the victory doesn't mean it was something that had a small effect.

Tell me, did you also find Heracross' Sleep Talk move in the Sinnoh League also a case of "eleventh hour superpower"?


I didn't mind the surprise move. Ash has been visibly training in Kalos, and him preparing a Bug-type move in advance of this gym seems logical. The gym would have lost the shock factor of "will he beat Trick Room or not" if we already saw Lucha with the X-Scissor card.

 

[Pikachu52]

Good for you. I'm even happier Pikachu wasn't used then.

Not sure I get you???

 

[Vernikova]

Not sure I get you???

S/he's happy that Pikachu wasn't used in this battle because they probably feel that it gets used a lot. For some reason, people keep track of Pokemon used in Gym battles and care about whether some get used or not.

Tell me, did you also find Heracross' Sleep Talk move in the Sinnoh League also a case of "eleventh hour superpower"?

Of course.

I didn't mind the surprise move. Ash has been visibly training in Kalos, and him preparing a Bug-type move in advance of this gym seems logical. The gym would have lost the shock factor of "will he beat Trick Room or not" if we already saw Lucha with the X-Scissor card.

No one cares about X-Scissor on its own because that's been done a billion times to this point. The asspull is X-Scissor breaking Trick Room with the addition of Hawlucha conveniently having that move to exploit this previously unknown weakness. I don't see how people can try to defend it as not an asspull. It very obviously is one. The only shock value Pokemon can bring at this point is "will this episode actually be good?"

 

[Vipsoccermaster]

A fine episode. The battle against Valerie was okay. Interesting choices Ash used for his Pokémon, though. He at least knew what he was doing throughout the episode, when others thought otherwise.

 

[Navin]

* No one cares about X-Scissor on its own because that's been done a billion times to this point. The asspull is X-Scissor breaking Trick Room with the addition of Hawlucha conveniently having that move to exploit this previously unknown weakness. I don't see how people can try to defend it as not an asspull. It very obviously is one. The only shock value Pokemon can bring at this point is "will this episode actually be good?"

See, I found Heracross knowing Sleep Talk much more of an asspull because he conveniently had a counter for finishing move. But here, it's evident he taught Lucha Bug-type move in advance of the Psychic-type gym. And he found a unique use of that move during the battle, and made use of Valerie's Pokemon's attack, to enable that move to break Trick Room. It's a bit like how he had Charizard Flamethrower the battlefield against Blastoise.

 

[Vernikova]

See, I found Heracross knowing Sleep Talk much more of an asspull because he conveniently had a counter for finishing move. But here, it's evident he taught Lucha Bug-type move in advance of the Psychic-type gym. And he found a unique use of that move during the battle, and made use of Valerie's Pokemon's attack, to enable that move to break Trick Room. It's a bit like how he had Charizard Flamethrower the battlefield against Blastoise.

Learning a move out of nowhere is common enough for me not to complain despite it being an asspull. The problem was the specific weakness, which is different from spamming Flame Charge or melting rocks with Flamethrower.

 

[Navin]

Learning a move out of nowhere is common enough for me not to complain despite it being an asspull. The problem was the specific weakness, which is different from spamming Flame Charge or melting rocks with Flamethrower.

It's not like he knew X-Scissor breaks Trick Rooms. He trained Lucha a Bug-type move in advance, and because it was physical, it worked out in that scenario. Plus, he still needed to use Spritzee's speed to make it happen.

 

[Vernikova]

It's not like he knew X-Scissor breaks Trick Rooms. He trained Lucha a Bug-type move in advance, and because it was physical, it worked out in that scenario. Plus, he still needed to use Spritzee's speed to make it happen.

I'm not going to blame him for taking advantage of the new fact, and I will readily admit that increasing the bird's speed using its opponent was good strategy.

 

[Navin]

I'm not going to blame him for taking advantage of the new fact, and I will readily admit that increasing the bird's speed using its opponent was good strategy.

So your asspull complaint is not that Ash taught Lucha a super-effective physical Bug-type move in advance of a Psychic-type gym, but rather that a super-effective physical Bug-type move could break a Psychic-type rectangular box?