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Fanfiction Rules - Need YOUR Opinions

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What are "reply boxers"? You mean people who write the fics in the "new post" box? Because I know someone who did that on Rocket100 and her fics were usually AWESOME. Very short, but awesome. So it can be done. (me I couldn't do that; my spelling sucks too badly and I need to run it by people first, but hey)

Yeah, them (Or use quick reply on chapters). The ones I'm refering to however have like 2 minutes or less and write just plain badly and are EXTREMELY irritating. Fair enough not everybody has Word but it's the whole "I didn't have time to finish this so I'll post part 2 later!"

ARGH. USE THE SAVE FUNCTION IN NOTE/WORDPAD DAMNIT.

They never learn, they just keep doing it, extremely irritating when you get up and find yet another kid has done it :( It gets old REALLY fast.


Sandra
 

Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
Oh well yeah. This gal I'm talking about did it when she knew she had time to do so. But she had overprotective parents who'd search her computer files including her trashed stuff, so she couldn't leave a trail. Frankly it's a wonder she got online at all.
 

Chozo

My Serebii face

duncan

Well-Known Member
Openoffice download link in the fanfic rules then, perhaps?

That would be a good idea no matter what, however crappy it is sometimes. Spellcheck is okay, but it's doubtful that everyone will want to run it through there. I doubt anyone does.

And you're right Sandra, the page limit does cut down on that kind of stuff. Think of it this way, yes three pages of bad writing is worse than one page. But practically every time (with a few exceptions) it's extremely poor writing and would be closed either way. I still think that you would need mod approval for anything under, say one or two pages. It wouldn't take long at all for you guys to look at it and see if it's okay or spam, and I'm as scarce as they are it wouldn't be that hard to keep up with, I imagine.

Something that could be improved upon in the new rules is more clarfication on what is spam and what isn't while reviewing, etc. Many threads have (or have had recently) the writer and readers discussing the fic, etc. The rules aren't entirely clear on whether this is allowed from reading them.

Also something else that could be elaborated on more is how to comment on a fic. Not everyone wants to review, and the way the rules are set up now it seems to be merely an add-on that you have to say something about the fic that proves you read it. There are a great deal of closet readers here for nearly all fics, and I think if how to comment was expanded on it could help people who don't necessarily want to write a review at least let the writer know that they read and enjoyed, or that there was a small thing that they didn't, etc. I'm not talking about encouraging the spam reviews, I'm talking about making it clearer that you don't have to post a massive, insightful review or else be worried about an infraction. It would probably help cut down on spam as well, where it would be clearer what is and isn't allowed.
 

Ethan

Banned
It has been so long since I've posted in this forum; I may be completely ignorant of the current situation, but I'll let my thoughts be known anyway.


You guys all stress a point that you are trying to foster newbies and push them a long, but I haven't seen this. Sanda said that she closed threads because they are "such an eye sore" etc. So what if the author used horrible and appalling grammar? So what if they thought it would be cool to color coat their text? So what if the outline of their story is pathetic it makes you want to puke? You don't just brush them off as idiots. You try to help and have it be in a constructive manner. Yami Ryu comes to mind. I bear no personal grudge and I understand the importance of critisizm, but new authors usually don't respond to that sort of communication. I can understand if it's not really your style to sugar coat things, but when you sink your teeth into someone, it discourages the writer.

Well maybe they should have taken more effort? Maybe they should have. If this is true, point it out and try to help them a long. A lot of this so called "spam" is just bad writing habits that should be improved. So decreasing the page limit causes more spam? I don't really see that as an excuse. If there's more spam, deal with it. Really, modding is just a bunch of mouse clicking and should bother no one in the slightest. I value the creativity and ingenuity of an individual over 5 spam threads.

In summary, you guys need to loosen up a little and show a more compassionate attitude. Genuinely try to help people, don't discourage them.

As I said before, maybe I'm just plain ignorant because I haven't been on the seen for awhile, but whatever.
 

duncan

Well-Known Member
You have a very good point, we all could be more supportive of newbie fics. Thing is, so many of them just plain don't want to improve, or don't care. They come and go so fast it's next to impossible (not to mention annoying) when you pour your time out trying to help, and they just ignore it or get bored with it and leave.

If a fic has had any real effort put into it, it won't be closed. But the fics that blatantly break the rules with extremely poor writing aren't just forgotten about, one of the mods or vets will usually link them to the Advice for Aspiring Authors thread, as well as tell them what was so wrong with what they did so that they can improve.

It's certainly not a perfect system, but it generally won't discourage writers who are adamant about wanting to improve and get better.

As for picking on new writers, although that can sometimes be the case, as a whole the reviewers here try to be supportive when reviewing newbies. I know I always try to be nicer than I would be to a normal writer when reviewing someone new, and most everyone else does the same. The biggest problem, though, is that no one really reviews them at all unless they're at least average, if not better.

You bring up a good point, although I'm not really sure if it should be incorporated into the rules necessarily.
 

Negrek

Lost but Seeking
You guys all stress a point that you are trying to foster newbies and push them a long, but I haven't seen this. Sanda said that she closed threads because they are "such an eye sore" etc. So what if the author used horrible and appalling grammar? So what if they thought it would be cool to color coat their text? So what if the outline of their story is pathetic it makes you want to puke? You don't just brush them off as idiots. You try to help and have it be in a constructive manner. Yami Ryu comes to mind. I bear no personal grudge and I understand the importance of critisizm, but new authors usually don't respond to that sort of communication. I can understand if it's not really your style to sugar coat things, but when you sink your teeth into someone, it discourages the writer.
Current policy is to close a thread that breaks the rules hard, leaving a post directing the author to read the fanfiction rules before posting again. As long as this is done politely, I don't see any problem with it; the rules address . In general legibility is the minimum requirement for a thread to remain open. The rules thread explains stuff like spellcheck, smilies, paragraph usage, and most of the other common mistakes made by new authors. I don't think that basic readability is too high a standard to which to hold fanfic, and users do have to meet the moderation somewhere in the middle. If they're not willing to commit the time necessary to avoid egregious English failure, I don't know why there's any reason to spend the time necessary to patiently walk them through it when one can point to the rules thread instead.

As for outright insulting criticism of the author, that tends to happen in threads that do remain open because they meet minimum requirements but still aren't very good. The rules actually has a very long section about respecting writers and the difference between a constructive review and a flame, so I'm not sure what more can be done to eliminate unnecessarily harsh reviewing besides better enforcement of the stated rules. Unfortunately, due to dissension among the moderating team, this does not happen consistently.

So yeah, I think that people at times get carried away with their "concrit" on these boards, but I'm not sure how the rules can be altered in order to reduce this.
 
The eyesores are virtually always from people who refuse to read the Rules, refuse to heed advice and see themselves as perfect and incapable of doing wrong. Closure nearly always involves linkage to the stickies (Via PM or in thread). If they put even the remotest bit of sense into their efforts, we wouldn't be giving people eye problems.

There is NO excuse whatsoever for a giant block of text which is the biggest culprit. Ever. It's purely ignorance, laziness and little else. If we don't have any form of even basic quality control as we have we'd have half the mess we did back in the ealier years.

The ones who want to write always seem to pick up that, snap I don't want my thread closed again, I better read what I was given. They do it and everything runs normally again. The others just meh and toddle off to their next five minute fad. It's not picking on newbies in the slightest, they're generally the ones with sense over the "bored" looking for five seconds of fame.

I'd love a hundred newbies who actually read over the stupid ones any day...

Sandra
 

Elemental Charizam

Sudden Genre Shift
I agree with ZF; it's terrible that people can't be bothered to learn a few simple rules before they start writing - rules such as those of English grammar or our very own forums. It's lucky, then, that we have dedicated moderators, well acquainted with both sets of rules, to keep these lazy newbies in line. Without these rules being enforced I'm sure we'd all drown under a slew of stories three sentences long and signatures with glaringly obvious grammar mistakes in them. In reality, it's for their own good, as many experienced members would, on seeing someone with a signature with incorrect grammar in it, be sure to make fun, and that would hardly do, no matter how subtle they tried to be about it.

It's funny how the main culprits are often very critical of others, as well, which is nought but hypocrisy. I, personally, find it very hard to sympathise with hypocrites. 'Tis my philosophy that the pot should never call the kettle black, lest they appear a fool.
 

PetuniaBubbles

Devoted Spriter
I understand how people don't want to see two paragraph long chapters, and I agree that two paragraphs is a bit... low. If I had to say so myself, a chapter should be at /least/ five /full/ paragraphs. Meaning three to five sentences each.

I'd love to read some of the fics here but when I look at the length of a chapter, I know I don't have enough time, so I prefer the normal sized chapters. Look at it this way. Shorter chapters enable more updates, rather than waiting weeks inbetween. Also I normally type up a short chapter as a filler or something to help get my muse back (as its been half dead for a while, which is why I started a fic, turned out I decided to continue it afterward.)

Another thing I would like to point out is how some people review or give critisism. One of my dislikes is when some one says the same thing as another person, and nothing else. If I already know that, why do people restate it so much? I understand there are the newbies who can't take critisism well, and some times they /do/ need to be told twice. But at least let the person put a few more chapters before restating it. For example, only one person said something that no one else did already, and what everyone told me was to be more descriptive. I HAVE been getting more descriptive, but no one bothered to wait for my newer chapters (as I had about 10 already typed up at the time, and had posted maybe six.)

Also when reviewing, I think it'd be a good idea to say at least one positive thing with the critisism. Getting nothing but insults and being told your fic sucks could crush ones motivation. Saying something positive at least makes the writer feel better under all the things the reviewer said to do. And again, give the person time to improve, you can't expect immediate change.

Note: I said I'd rewrite my first few chapters after I finish Part One. I've finished this afternnon, and I shall start rewriting when I have time.
 

Arcanine Royale

Well-Known Member
Quality over quantity - no page minimum, though an advisory 2/3 pages. Same with other page minimums - art has no limits on length.

An idea: have the thread starting ability in the Pokemon Fanfic board proper limited to those that have clearance - you have to pass a "test" that would basically involve the person reading through the rules and getting answers out of there. When they pass, they may now have the ability to start threads.

@Duncan: Yes, a good portion will not move on, but wouldn't the 1 out of ten that ends up writing a great fic be worth it?

Um, the length would be my only qualm, I'd say. The rest is pretty good.
 

Pink Parka Girl

I wish I could change my username
My recommendations for changes:

-Plain English/Shorter Length. A lot of these newbie writers are young and inexperienced - which is to be expected, given that this is a Pokémon forum. Do many of them really have the patience and/or the level of comprehension to completely get through the (admittedly rather overwhelming) rules thread?

Maybe we could have a seperate, shorter, simplified version of the rules; specifically tailored to those people for whom writing is a brand new skill, or those whose literary talents have not yet grown beyond that level. Of course, there would still be the more in-depth rules for those of us who have moved beyond bare bones grammar and readability/smiley abuse/raving Sues/shallow reviews, such as how to treat the newbies just coming in (really, is telling them they need to get hit in the head with a baseball bat really productive? Or kind?), and advice on advanced grammar/writing skills. After all, is it really fair to fault a new writer who doesn't understand what it means when he's told he's writing "a blatant author proxy" by a reviewer, or who is absolutely daunted by a giant rules thread?

Or, maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. You decide. ^^;

-Ditch minimum page lengths; or, if they absolutely must be kept in place, refer to them as a guideline, not a hard standard. Drabbles/short short fiction and short chapters (some of my chapters have been as few as three hundred words long in a certain fic, for example) are valid forms of literature and possess merit; to ban them in a futile effort towards quality control seems misguided. It shouldn't matter if a fic is 100 words long or 10,000 - if anyone with eyes can see that both fics are equally well written, why should the shorter work be punished? Of course, a compromise could also be reached, using the old artist's credo that "before one can break the rules, one must learn them." Maybe a new writer couldn't post short short fics, or brief chapters, until they've demonstrated they actually have a grasp on the English language through a work that does fit the length requirement? Or by showing the work they want to submit to a mod, first?

-Maybe include links to sites that discuss issues such as grammar. It's one thing to say a fic needs proper grammar; but not everyone has had the same benefits of schooling, or age, or having been brought up to speak the English language. We can scream till we're blue in the face in reviews that in a phrase like "Perri's favorite Pokémon were Plusle and Minun, too Pokémon were better then one and she new that to be true;" "too" should be "two," "then" should be "than" and "new" should be "knew" (and that it would be better off as two sentences, or with a semicolon after "Minun"), but not every reviewer bothers to say WHY this is so, which could leave our hypothetical newbie open to making the same mistakes over and over again. Some sites I recommend, that are easy enough for even the younger writers to understand, include http://www.sourceaid.com/reference/pdf/misused-words.pdf (Commonly Misused Words), http://www.chompchomp.com/rules.htm (various grammar how-tos, written in plain English), http://www.stormloader.com/garyes/its/#top (a nice summary of the "its vs. it's" problem that I see a lot in newbie writing). Others may be able to recommend their own sites.

Or at least, make it a rule that if a reviewer is going to talk about what's wrong, they should explain WHY. ^^

-Touch on Mary Sues; if a non-controversy-causing way of doing so can be agreed upon. A common complaint towards the newbie writer is that their character is a Sue - but sometimes these kids are so new they don't even know what a Mary Sue is or WHY it's bad (for example, a newbie writer I've been mentoring recently came to me asking that very question, since one of his reviewers used it without taking the time to explain it). A simple paragraph explaining the basics of the Sue could, I think, go a long way towards helping our new writers. :)

-Make it crystal-clear that the rules - and their punishments - are inflexible. No beating around the bush, here - I gotta call a spade a spade. We can talk for days about rules, but they won't mean anything if they're not actually enforced - especially those concerning proper reviewing etiquette. Love for writing is a gift - in America, where I live, not enough kids show interest or love for books, language and the sheer joy of crafting your own story. Concrit is one thing, but flaming is another. Why put out their fire before it's even really had a chance to grow? I don't care if I get infracted for saying this; it needs to be said - Yami Ryu is not above the law. Stop treating her as if she is.

No one else is above the law, either.
 
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duncan

Well-Known Member
@Duncan: Yes, a good portion will not move on, but wouldn't the 1 out of ten that ends up writing a great fic be worth it?

What I was getting at was that it gets tiresome spending tons of time to review newbies when they shun/ignore your advice or disappear soon afterward. That's why so few people review newbies until they're either into a decent amount of chapters or are pretty good already. Of course, if someone wants to help newbies and review there's obviously no problem with that, but seeing as that doesn't happen all that often I don't see any other way to take care of them, you know? Short of pointing them towards Advice for Aspiring Authors or perhaps the beta thread, anyway. And perhaps these rule revisions.

As for your idea...I actually think there could possible be something to that. Although I think a fragment of each person's writing would work better. I don't know...it's a decent idea, though.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
In regards to this whole chapter length debate, let’s establish a few things first.


1) If is clearly doesn’t follow the basic requirements in the first post, such as actually including the first chapter, not being written by someone else and being appropriate for the forum, it gets closed automatically. This is because al members are absolutely obligated to read the rules of a section before posting in it, and if they don’t, they have only themselves to blame.

2) If a story has extremely poor spelling and grammar, it will be closed automatically since these mistakes can easily be fixed with any word processing program (a spellchecker is even linked to in the Rules).

3) If all fic chapters are extremely short, it’s pretty safe to assume that it’s because the chapters are simply not paced well, aren’t fleshed out enough and don’t have enough happening in them. Keep in mind that a chapter should translate into about half an hour if it was on film.

4) Skilled writers can still make a great story without a minimum length. Having a short story or short chapter can be used as a literary technique to create a mood or make an impression on the reader, doing so in few words because that’s all that’s needed. Examples include:
-Ernest Hemingway’s short story: “For sale: baby shoes, never worn.” (Why expand on it when it’s perfect the way it is?)
-Langston Hughes’ three-line poem Suicide’s Note (if it’s any longer, it detracts from the effect of suicide itself being very quick and abrupt)
-Chava Rosenfarb’s biography, The Tree of Life, about her experience as a Jew in the Holocaust, where the chapter on her experience in a Nazi concentration camp is described through one short paragraph (ten blank pages follow.)
-And of course plenty of other stories that are under two pages long

A story does not need to reach a certain length to be good, and padding out a story just for the sake of it detracts from the story itself. We do acknowledge, of course, that not all writers can pull this off. But it works, and there’s no denying it.

5) Consequently, if we do make a length minimum, then yes, we will allow exceptions, so long as they are cases like those above. We will use common logic here; most newbies, unless they are already quite skilled (as some are), will not be exceptions, but if a writer has a bunch of long chapters, then suddenly a short (well-written) one, there will be no punishment so long as it’s being done for the effect.


I think that these are pretty reasonable points that most everyone can agree on. Now that that’s clear, I just want to reiterate my own personal opinion: if you tell a new writer that they’re not allowed to write something under x length, period, they may be discouraged and not even try, which is not what we want to do. On the other hand, if there’s no real minimum and they just write, as they get reviews and gain more experience, they’ll usually learn as they go that short chapters aren’t really optimal, so they’ll naturally come to make them longer.

Of course, neither theory is true in every single case, but I think they do apply to a fair few people.


Anyway, with all the above in mind, here’s a suggestion:
If a chapter is say under three pages, and written reasonably well (spelling/grammar/language is decent enough), they are considered to be at a basic level. But since the story should probably be padded out more (considering the length), the writer is shown how to improve it by adding whatever is necessary to flesh the story out more, improve the pace and so on through giving a thorough review. The writers must then start using the advice given to them, and improvement should be evident in the next chapter.

Thus, the goal really is to improve quality, though length is partly used as a gauge. Reviewers would have to be committed to really putting in the effort, and the Mods would have to really have a good, unbiased eye out for improvement, because if the writer really doesn’t use the advice given, the fic would get closed and they’d be told to get it up to the proper standard for next time.


It’s a very rough idea, so I’d love to hear what everyone thinks of that/how it could be improved upon.




I never thought what duncan pointed out was an issue, but I suppose that if people really are avoiding posting because they don't know what sorts of posts are legal, we can go into that. Though it should be noted that that's pretty much addressed in the recent announcement. That just seems like one of the things that shouldn’t exactly be a rule, per say; I think there is going to be a separate thread on posting etiquette, since it seems a lot of people really need a lesson in it.


PetuniaBubbles, you're thinking of bashing/flaming, and in those cases the poster should be reported. No matter what, telling someone that they suck, their story sucks or insulting them in any way is not criticism, and is not acceptable. Real criticism is polite, explains everything to the writer and showed how improvements can be made (this is explained in the recent announcement).

We really can't force these sorts of people to add one good comment. When reviewing, you ARE supposed to point out the good along with the bad, but there's nothing we can do if a reviewer didn't see/point out anything positive. Giving infractions for that reason wouldn't really be right, but like I said, the actual bashers should be reported to the Mods.


Technically, when you sign up for SPPf you have to do something similar, Arcanine Royale - it's just that everyone ignores that contract. But really, there aren't any options (at least that I've ever heard of) to have something like that. The closest thing would be Mod approval for threads, but I don't think that's really suited to fan fics, especially because if we don't allow a thread to be posted, the poster may not understand why. If they at least post it we can still explain the problem, and add helpful tips on how to improve before we lock it.


Having rules for “newbies” and almost separate rules for “vets” seems sort of wrong, PPG, even aside from the fact that not everyone knows how to classify themselves. It’s just segregating too much.

I think what’s needed is a thread of your very basic, boiled down rules for the forum, mainly on how to post your fic. Then, to keep things simple, there would be another thread specifically there about posting etiquette, as in how to post a basic reply, how to write a review, and also how to respond to reviews. And then of course there’s the Advice for Aspiring Authors, which I said I’d try revamping…and which I really need to get back to doing. (But that topic’s for another day.)



You guys all stress a point that you are trying to foster newbies and push them a long, but I haven't seen this. Sanda said that she closed threads because they are "such an eye sore" etc. So what if the author used horrible and appalling grammar? So what if they thought it would be cool to color coat their text? So what if the outline of their story is pathetic it makes you want to puke? You don't just brush them off as idiots. You try to help and have it be in a constructive manner.
Well, the idea is that if they're doing these things, it's because they haven't read the Fan Fiction Rules. If you had someone make a thread in the Debates forum with the first post "Homosexuals deserves to burn and die in hell! Don't you agree with me?!" it would get closed.

If they had read the Debate Rules, they would know that this wasn't allowed, and one of the Debate Mods would close it. It's the exact same case here: if a member doesn't read the Rules before posting, it's their own fault. The people who run around calling them idiots, however, are the exception, not the rule, and they should not be acting this way, since our policy is to be helpful and encouraging. When we see a thread that breaks the Rules, we tell the poster to go read the sticky threads, possibly give them some tips on how to improve, then lock it if it’s that bad.


A lot of this so called "spam" is just bad writing habits that should be improved. So decreasing the page limit causes more spam? I don't really see that as an excuse. If there's more spam, deal with it. Really, modding is just a bunch of mouse clicking and should bother no one in the slightest. I value the creativity and ingenuity of an individual over 5 spam threads.
Eh, I think modding is more about actual communication with members (explaining what they did wrong and such) – that’s really the most important part, imo.

In any case, I don't exactly see where this "minimum = SPAM" thing is coming from. o_O The debate isn’t really about that, to my knowledge. Maybe I'm not speaking for everyone or something like that, but we're just trying to find a compromise on what is acceptable for a chapter in regards to quality and quantity. Either way, if a posted fic is just really bad, it will be closed because they just haven't even bothered putting effort into it. And the fact of the matter is, if you can't put the basic amount of effort into writing a story (basically having proper spelling, grammar, paragraphing, etc.), there's no point in any of us putting in the effort to say what was done wrong. All we can do it tell them what to read, give some very basic pointers, and if they still can't reach the basic standard (basically having at least two or three pages of good grammar), then there's just no point in going on.

We can't help writers if they can't help themselves, and we can't spoon-feed each and every person every step of the way. We simply do not have the manpower (because this means writing out a real review for a dozen fics a day, which can take anywhere from ten minutes to an hour, and the three fic Mods and a handful of decent reviewers isn't enough to do that).


In summary, you guys need to loosen up a little and show a more compassionate attitude. Genuinely try to help people, don't discourage them.

As I said before, maybe I'm just plain ignorant because I haven't been on the seen for awhile, but whatever.
You’re right in that there are a fair few members who have the wrong attitude towards reviewing, and that is exactly what the new announcement was meant to change (though that will probably be combined with another thread that goes a bit more into depth on etiquette). However, since you don’t frequent this section, you might not be completely aware of what our policies are. We don’t hate newbies or anything like that – in fact, we have a specific set of guidelines in regards to the proper treatment of writers, and reviews as well (see the recent announcement and Fic Rule 14), since we know that this is sometimes an issue.

We appreciate that other Mods are trying to give their input, though you may want to have a peek at the other sticky threads to have an idea of what’s currently going on, since things have probably changed a bit since you were last here.


~Psychic
 
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Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
3) If all fic chapters are extremely short, it’s pretty safe to assume that it’s because the chapters are simply not paced well, aren’t fleshed out enough and don’t have enough happening in them. Keep in mind that a chapter should translate into about half an hour if it was on film.

See, that's what confuses me. A half hour is an absurd amount of writing if the primary focus is on dialogue. I can't think of any single chapter of Obsession that would fill a half hour, even the ones that're four pages long. Surely time passes in some, but those are cut away without detail. Others, where it's focused around conversations, could be that length and acted out in a space of five minutes. Like in chapter 18, the telephone conversation takes up the bulk of the chapter. That whole thing, pauses and stammering and everything, I would be *surprised* if it managed to stretch out that long.

It seems a very bizarre length of time to pick, not to mention that it's a rather arbitrary way of measuring chapter length.
 

Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
...yes, that's what I meant too. I was saying that if it were to be acted out it wouldn't take up *five* much less thirty. Given how little time most words take to say, it takes an unreal amount of dialogue to fill thirty minutes, and that's just not realistic to expect people to write out. It gives an unfair advantage to action-driven stories because in those, the passage of some amount of time is a given, while in a dialogue-driven story you have to write and write and write and holy cow that took me an hour to come up with but only three minutes to SAY?

See what I mean?

The example I used was in this chapter. See how much text is between "I answered the telephone in the living room" and "That's good to hear"? Yet say it all out loud. It takes up only a couple of minutes. Yes it says they talked for longer, but that's glossed over and not given. What appears in the story itself is only the dialogue given between those parts.

There, in fact, I just recorded the dialogue. Took me two minutes flat and that's with adding intro speech to it. Take away the narration and the dialogue time is cut down to nearly nothing.
 
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And because I haven't yet, thank you all for the contributions so far :) We'll whack these into shape one way or another, I know in my case certainly quite a few points that never occured have popped up.

Sandra
 
My opinion:Get rid of the 2/3/whatever page rule on MS word altogether. Good fics don't have to be long.
 

Negrek

Lost but Seeking
See, that's what confuses me. A half hour is an absurd amount of writing if the primary focus is on dialogue. I can't think of any single chapter of Obsession that would fill a half hour, even the ones that're four pages long. Surely time passes in some, but those are cut away without detail. Others, where it's focused around conversations, could be that length and acted out in a space of five minutes. Like in chapter 18, the telephone conversation takes up the bulk of the chapter. That whole thing, pauses and stammering and everything, I would be *surprised* if it managed to stretch out that long.
Ditto-ditto. I've never seen anyone allude to this "thirty minutes of TV" rule anywhere else, and I have no idea why you would hold someone to a measure like that. Television and literature are entirely different media; saying that a good chapter should be like thirty minutes of a television show is roughly equivalent to saying that a page on a web site should be the equivalent of one three-panel cartoon strip. Cartoons and web sites are both visual media that convey information through a combination of images and text, but you cannot compare them in that way.

That rule seems to be based too much on some idea that chapters should be episodic, a la your thirty-minute sitcoms (although of course, these are shorter if you cut out all the commercials). The majority of fanfiction is not similarly episodic. Sometimes, chapters might have to stretch out over the equivalent of hours of television programming; at others, just a couple of minutes is enough. I really don't see why you would measure things in this way.
 
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