Fansubs

[Chris]

So I was browsing about and a particular article caught my interest. FUNimation had sent out a C&D (Cease and Desist) letter out to a certain fan-subbing group and forced them to take down all of their torrents of anime. FUNi had caught wind that they were distributing anime they were in the process of announcing the acquirments, as well as that they used to distribute Fullmetal Alchemist episodes as well as Dragon Ball manga scanlations.

Now, for those who are unaware of these terms, I'll explain them. A fansub is basically a digitally recorded TV episode of a language different from that of most viewers and is given translated subtitles by fans working on distributing the show. Scanlations are somewhat similar, however they're simply scanned books (generally manga) that have the Japanese text wiped and replaced with translated text.

After viewing the article, I caught a rather large debate over at ANN. You had your typical whinings of people being annoyed that they couldn't download the episodes they wanted of certain shows, people pointing out how FUNi was in the right, and your occasional idiots bashing FUNi as if they were still in 1996 where all they dubbed was Dragon Ball and did a piss-poor job with it.

So now I wish to know what the people of this section think about all of this. Some people have pointed out that they can't afford certain anime, while others mentioned that they're in the right for downloading anime.

Personally, I'm as guilty as most people are for downloading anime subs and manga scanlations. I won't lie to you. I downloaded the entire FMA series as it was progressing in Japan and even after FUNi licensed it and was just starting the casting. I'm also guilty of downloading Bleach episodes as well as Pocket Monsters/AG. And also Naruto, especially dubbed episodes. Plus I'm also guilty of following up on the Fullmetal Alchemist manga as well as Midori no Hibi, even when they've been licensed by Viz.

However, unlike most people, I'm not exactly a cheap bastage. I'll fully support the companies that make these anime and manga available in my territory. I've currently got the first six FMA DVDs (including the two boxes that FMA 1 and 6 came with), four Dragon Ball DVDs, nineteen Dragon Ball Z DVDs, four Dragon Ball GT DVDs, and a large chunk of manga of the anime and manga I download (even going as far as to owning all of what's available for them).

Downloading fansubs is a bit of an iffy subject with me. As long as someone actually supports the company, it's really alright with me. But when someone downloads for the sake of being a cheapskate, then there's a problem. Although there is the problem that some anime aren't even being released completely on DVD, even in Japan. Not to mention, how some companies (4Kids) force fans to resort to fansubs since there are no official translations or uncut versions in English (One Piece).

I've seen suggestions about official pay-per-episode, but no one would really go for that. You'd be better off just buying box sets or single DVDs. If anything, more companies should include a bonus starting episode of one of their newly acquired anime to gain interest in fans (like what FUNi did in FMA DVD 4 by including Spiral episode 1 as a bonus).

Viz is kind enough to put up scans of parts of a chapter to some of their manga on their website to get people interested. You can even find books that they and TokyoPop tend to release once a year that includes previews of their new manga.

The general excuse I hear is "I can't afford DVDs/graphic novels!" from people in the US. The excuse is null when there are a TON of sites that offer DVDs cheaper than retail price, even actual stores like Best Buy. There's even one site that sells cheaper than retail price, but also offers free shipping in the US. Manga tends to range from $7.95 to $9.99 per volume. Quite possibly CHEAPER than what manga used to cost back in the day. Of course, this becomes a problem from those outside of the US, like in the UK, where anime isn't heavily distributed there. But this also nulls the "DVDs are too expensive" excuse in the US since everyone else, including Japan, has to pay HIGHER prices (for 17 movies, a box to hold the DVDs, and two walkie-talkie Scouters, the Dragon Ball Movie Dragon Box set costs up to $400, where even the Fullmetal Alchemist limited edition movie set,which includes movie with Japanese AND English subtitles and additional DVD, goes for up to $70 in RETAIL PRICE).

Again, as I asked, what's everyone else's thoughts about all of this?

And on an additional note, FUNimation's vastly improved since they first started and do so much better for their shows..except when it's Dragon Ball related or has a HUGE amount of episodes (such as Detective Conan...releasing 3 episodes per disc for $25 for a 400+ episode series that's still going in Japan and rereleasing the first DVD to be included with episodes skipped on DVD = NO). The one gripe I have with them is that they put way too little on their DVDs for some of these series' that go on forever. DBZ's got a HUGE list of volumes, whereas Japan is releasing THREE DVDs per month which include 6 episodes a disc for about $26 and will have just about as short as 40 volumes (whereas FUNi's go into the 80s count). They obviously have a ton of space (as seen on their fourth FMA DVD which had four episodes in two English selections and Japanese, a music video, trailers and a bonus episode of a different series) that they choose not to use.

 

[Silver Fusion]

I download subs. But only when I know that they aren't coming to the U.K for a good few years. e.g- Pokemon movies (Still waiting for movie 6 dub).

I would buy the DVD if it was available. I buy FMA DVD's. I don't download subs. For 2 reasons: I don't know where to get them and my DVD has the Japanese and subbed versions on it.

Anime is quite expensive. £20 for 4 episodes. Plus you have to preorder anime DVD's.

Manga on the other hand can be very expensive if you live in England. I tried to buy online once. It cost $69.00 for the shipping. (Thats alot of money I assume).

Now can I ask. What the hell is Best Buy?

 

[MondoTR]

What the hell is Best Buy?

Best Buy sells stuff like DVDs, CDs, games, computers, and things like that. It's an electronic store.

Anyways, I've a few subs as well as a few dubs. But I plan to get the DVDs. AMG first. <3

 

[FlamingRuby]

I get subs if:

A. The anime in question isn't out in English yet
B. The anime in question has a bad English dub (Tokyo Mew Mew, anyone?) ::hugs her CDs of TMM fansubs::

 

[Skiks]

One piece is the only anime I would approve of not buying their dvds. Once all the fma dvds come out I will buy them. D= I always support companies after I download fan subs. The only reason I haven't bought HxH dvd's is because their not out in english yet.

 

[Wandering Rhythmical Phoenix]

I'm giulty of the Fansubbing and Scanalations myself (Namely FMA and Naruto)
I dont see the stink they have about it, Ive been buying the DVDs and Manga, If i want too compair the two soursces, Goddamnit, let me!
I can understand the aspect that ALOT of people dont turn around and buy it, but couldnt it be said the same for the Anime on TV? Not everyones gonna go and buy the DVDs

 

[HK]

Actually, the only anime that I've really kept track of when it comes to fansubs is Black Cat, and that got liscenced by FUNimation just when the ninth episode came out (which suprised the hell out of me seeing that it got liscenced so quickly). I'm more guilty of getting manga scanlations, including already liscenced series -- i.e. Berserk, Death Note, Hellsing, Monster (although Viz has delayed it for the THIRD FUGGIN TIME), Trigun/Trigun Maximum, etc.

The only time when I truly encourage viewing of fansubs or scanlations is when the English representation, or dub, itself is just plain awful. Everyone here knows the tragedy of 4Kids' dub of One Piece, and some also might know CMX's raped version of Tenjho Tenge/Tenjou Tenge (there is some irony and a pun in that last statement, btw). In those cases where censoreship is brought upon the media do I ever believe that fansubs and scanlations are the answer, otherwise, support the manga-ka and the anime company that made the series by buying the products.

That is another thing that p*sses me off: otaku who have this elitist complex that believe that there is no good dubs out there and say that people who like dubs aren't real fans, and yet they don't even bother to support the series that they are watching/reading and being immature dumbf*cks about it. Those types waste space on this planet and we could really do without them.

 

[Fullmetal_Alchemist]

If it wasn't for the fansubs then I would never have been able to see FMA since it's only showing on a digital channel here. However, I do import the Region 1 dvds, ditto the manga. If it's available in the US or even here officially then I would buy it, but if it's not then I'll see if I can get a subbed version for example the FMA movie. Assuming FUNI manage to buy the rights for it, it would be years before it would get an official UK release.

Anime is quite expensive. £20 for 4 episodes. Plus you have to preorder anime DVD's.

Manga on the other hand can be very expensive if you live in England. I tried to buy online once. It cost $69.00 for the shipping. (Thats alot of money I assume).

If you've got a multi-regional dvd player then I recommend http://www.playusa.com they have volumes 1-6 of FMA for only £13.99 - 15.99 each, plus free postage. Also, Amazon.co.uk is quite good for manga, I ordered FMA Volume 4 on Friday for only £5, and it should arrive here tomorrow

 

[Kamex]

I don't download any anime or manga from the internet. I just watch what's shown on my good ol' TV. Can't bring myself to go through the hassle of finding that stuff to download. >_>

So, if it's illegal, and someone actually manages to catch you for illegally downloading and pirating anime and manga on the internet, what are the consequences?

 

[Wolf Goddess]

I think that if you're using fansubs to 1) See if you like an anime before buying it, 2) to get away from God-awful dubs, such as One Piece, 3) or make sure you aren't in your fifties when all of Detective Conan comes out *cough*, it's okay.

But people who are just downloading it because they're cheap make me laugh.

 

[BlueFlameCharizard]

I admit that I do purchase fansubs on Ebay (yes, I know most are crap =P and obviously not worth it), and on a very rare occasion download an anime. But as long as they release the origional versions with Japanese langue and maybe an option for Subs (I like Raws too, even if I only know like 5 words in Japanese ^^() ) I'll be happy to replace any fansubs I purchase with legitiment copies when they are made avaible...

The only exceptions I have so far are my 4 pocket monsters movies and my Sonic X copies (I lost interest in Sonic X sadly anyway =S). My friends got me attached to prefering Japanese versions regardless, so if they don't provide it and I can find a fansub I will always take the fansub... (On a side note, if I have an option between legitiment import and fansub I take the legitiment import btw)

 

[Gravy]

Fansubs and downloads are essentially all I've got. As you already pointed out, the UK gets the royal shaft when it comes to anything animé/manga related, and unless you're willing to scour the land for a comic store that actually has any sort of variety, you'll be hard-pressed to find anything outside of the Eva series and scatterings of Nadesico or dubbed TV animé.
It also doesn't help that a lot of the animé I favour tends to be dubbed by 4Kids. So, yah. Fat chance I'm buying any of their crud. UK Sonic X DVDs = Total BS.

If more shows with decent dubs or subtitles were available in the UK, I'd gladly give up the fansubs. Hell, even if we were to get some more decent dubs like FMA on TV I'd be satisfied. But as it stands there isn't, so I'll continue to resort to downloading my animé instead~

Any hack-job series such as One Piece however, is mandatory. And really, I don't think anyone who can actually bother to locate fansubs in the first place would pass up on that one.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I look upon downloading episodes this way: It's just like taping them off TV. The companies don't gripe about losing business to people who tape episodes, why should they care about people who load them?

 

[Kecleon Freak]

Though I did get interested in the manga first, I wouldn't be such a big One Piece fan if it wasn't for subs. It and YGO GX are the only animes I download though, as all my other favorite animes got good dubs.

 

[BlueFlameCharizard]

Fansubs and downloads are essentially all I've got. As you already pointed out, the UK gets the royal shaft when it comes to anything animé/manga related, and unless you're willing to scour the land for a comic store that actually has any sort of variety, you'll be hard-pressed to find anything outside of the Eva series and scatterings of Nadesico or dubbed TV animé.
It also doesn't help that a lot of the animé I favour tends to be dubbed by 4Kids. So, yah. Fat chance I'm buying any of their crud. UK Sonic X DVDs = Total BS.

If more shows with decent dubs or subtitles were available in the UK, I'd gladly give up the fansubs. Hell, even if we were to get some more decent dubs like FMA on TV I'd be satisfied. But as it stands there isn't, so I'll continue to resort to downloading my animé instead~

Any hack-job series such as One Piece however, is mandatory. And really, I don't think anyone who can actually bother to locate fansubs in the first place would pass up on that one.

I actually did pass up an offer at last years Otakon for One Piece season two because I didn't want it without season one... =S

I kindive regret it now... =S

 

[Juputoru]

I think that if you're using fansubs to 1) See if you like an anime before buying it, 2) to get away from God-awful dubs, such as One Piece, 3) or make sure you aren't in your fifties when all of Detective Conan comes out *cough*, it's okay.

But people who are just downloading it because they're cheap make me laugh.

Amen to that. I probably wouldn't have gotten into, lesse...Bleach, Ah! My Goddess, Detective Conan, FMA, Tokyo Mew Mew, One Piece, and Naruto had it not been for fansubs. And two of those have horrible dubs(with no hope for a good DVD release), and at least one has DVDs being released too damn slowly. I do try to buy DVDs whenever I can, though.
But I'd like to add point number 4:If you're using subs to watch series that are only availble in Japan ATM(Bleach >_>), it's OK. I think that most people who'd buy the DVDs would wait until they got a US(or wherever they live) release, so...(unless it's, say, Detective Conan. Then you really only have subs & DVDs imported from Japan as options for getting a good chunk of the eps before you're 60. Speaking of which...)

Being a fellow DC fan, I have to say this: I DL Conan fansubs, but...at the rate Funi's releasing DVDs, I'll be an old woman by the time they catch up to where Japan is now...and by then there'll be several hundred more eps left to dub(and yeah, it'll probably end at SOME point before then, but still). By that point Funi'd be rich if Conan was actually popular in the states! I know of three subbing groups that have been subbing it for quite a while, all at different points in the series, and there's still a LOT of unsubbed eps. Now, consider the fact that these groups are subbing at lightning speed when compared to Funi's DVD releases...

And come to think of it...is Funi ever going to dub the DC movies? If not...grr, I say. Grr. (well, OK, I'll admit I've already seen all the movies subbed, other than the 9th, but I WOULD like a DVD version so that I could A)Watch them on an actual television B)Not have them take up a small chunk of space on my hard drive whenever I want to watch them and C)Have at least 2 DVDs with Kaitou Kid on their covers. Er, I meant "be able to support Funi's DVD releases more".) Remind me again what it'll take to get Funi to be reasonable about their Conan releases?

...how'd I shift from my opinion on fansubs to my opinion of how DC is being released in the states? >_> Getting back on topic...

And I also agree with Blackjack on the "its like taping episodes off of TV" point, except when it comes to DVD-only anime(I can only think of a few right now, but I'm sure that there are quite a few of 'em out there). It's a tad hard to tape something off of TV when it *doesn't* air on TV, after all.

All in all, I generally don't mind fansub watchers as long as they make an effort to buy the DVDs when they come out(unless it's something that shows no signs of getting a good and/or well-paced DVD release).

 

[Chris]

That's the thing, they don't really care about recording onto VHS. If you happen to be the type that watches and records at the same time, you're still giving them ratings. Ratings = Money for them. Although most people encourage to buy the DVDs.

And the thing is, recording on a VHS is quite different than downloading an episode. With VHS, it's your personal copy unless you give a viewing to friends or family. With downloads, you'll have someone record the episode onto their computer, pass it around to fellow group members to tidy up the quality while translating and putting subs into the episode, and then distribute the episode to litterally THOUSANDS of people who have not tuned in. Possibly even millions.

VHS is a personal copy. Downloads get passed around on the internet.

And to answer an earlier question, anime companies aren't being like RIAA. They won't target the people downloading, but rather the people offering the downloads.

 

[DigitalKaede]

Yeah. I only download subbed anime (direct or Bit) if it hasn't be dubbed, or the Dubs horrible (like FlamingRuby Said). But I only download Bleach. Getting DVDs and VHS are kind of lame, so I just download them, rather than buying anime DVDs or VHS.

 

[Chris]

Yeah. I only download subbed anime (direct or Bit) if it hasn't be dubbed, or the Dubs horrible (like FlamingRuby Said). But I only download Bleach. Getting DVDs and VHS are kind of lame, so I just download them, rather than buying anime DVDs or VHS.

How's it lame to support a company and anime that you like by actually giving them money for better quality versions with more accurate subtitles?

Some people seem to forget DVDs have so much better quality than a lot of TV rips.

 

[DigitalKaede]

Yep, DVDs are better than TV Rips. But simply, I don't get DVDs or VHS cause either:

A. None of my favorite anime is on there.
B. I know that the dub is horrible (like One Piece).

Again, like people said, I only download my Fave animes cause it's only availabe in JP, or the episode hasn't been dubbed yet. Ex: Bleach, because it's only available in Japan, and I'd rather have it subbed than dubbed cause US voices would ruin the anime.