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Farewell, Ash-Greninja! Xerosic Strikes Back!! (942)

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
Looking back at this episode, I kind of have mixed feelings for Greninja's fate. On one hand, part of me is still upset and disappointed about this since Ash released yet another powerful pokémon due to the plot demanding it, leaving us to wonder why he can never have nice things. On the other hand, I honestly think that this is a better send off for Greninja all together than leaving him at Prof. Oak's lab. With the way they were building up the bond between Ash and Froakie throughout the entire series, to the point where they achieved this level of power that no one has ever seen before, it feels more respectable for Greninja to be left this way since it keeps his bond with Ash intact and shows how much Ash's love and connection helped Greninja reach this level. In contrast, leaving Greninja at Prof. Oak's would kind of feel like a middle finger to all of this development since -whether or not Ash is going to be reset for Sun & Moon - will be stuck at the lab regardless and ultimately forgotten, making it feel like Ash never cared about Greninja in the first place and that all of this build up we've went through was just for nothing. That's kind of what I felt with Infernape since he kind of went through the same development & treatment after Sinnoh, with nothing more than a group photo cameo that didn't even make its way into the dub.

So, while it stinks that Ash is losing another powerful pokémon, & this is still just another marketing strategy, it's still probably the smartest thing to in order to respect everything they've done with Greninja up until this point. Besides, since Greninja is so popular, there's still a chance they'll find a way to bring him back
 
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Hero of Truth

Lillie Fan
In reviewing the episode and its contents. Like almost everyone else, I'm disappointed that Greninja was released, but at least the writers gave a decent reason for it.
Also, really liked how they stayed true to the games and gave Xerosic one last time to shine before he gets arrested, similar to X/Y's post game story. Though it didn't follow the games' plot, at least we got to see more of Xerosic's character, which turned out to be similar to his character in the games. I still wish this was a Malamar episode though, what happened to those guys?

7.5 / 10
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Mal's Review:

All things IKUZE must come to an end


Pros:

* "Zettai Akiramenai!" Based OP is based

* Nice use of the bond connection

* Ninja frog actually being a ninja...

* Clemont outsmarting Xerosic again

* Amphibious flashback in the feels


Cons:

* That fake worry from Serena? Please, these creatures are literally bred to tank energy bombs...

* ...and completely failing by stepping on a twig

* No Gangster Malamar...RIP subplot

* C'mon, no meaningful farewells from Smogonbird or Lucha? Disappointing..


Thoughts:

* Buh-bye Barney! Thanks for losing to Bisharp and drawing to a Slurpuff! You da real MVP!

* 'Negative energy' - man, I'm still waiting for the explanation of what the hell was that sentient monolith-shapeshifting-Zygarde thing

* 'Even if we're separated, we're still connected.' See, I don't understand the release worries. Pretty sure if Ash really wanted IKUZEfrog again, he'll just tap into that connection or some reason out of the hat by the writers


Well maybe SatoSmogonfrog will be the next Charizard, and make a cameo return in Alola.

6-6.5/10
 

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
Looks like this episode (dub) was leaked too. Still pretty sad and emotional at the end I must say, but good episode overall. ;)
 

DS0308

<--- Actually me
Wouldn't exactly say "leaked" as it's more another country (probably Canada again) has played it before the US.

Xerosic is incredibly psychotic this episode, the **** was that laugh? :S

There were a few lines at the start of the episode that I just thought came out as strange, I'm pretty sure Clemont just repeated something Serena (I think it was) said before the opening played just with a little more detail. I assume that was in the Japanese version too but I didn't watch it with subs because of my semi-salt levels that Greninja got, for all intensive purposes, released and I didn't want to put myself through that again lol. Maybe I did but I just can't remember because it was a few months ago, or maybe I should say it was last year. Heh...

Didn't really have anything from the dub BGM that made me want to rip my ears out necessarily but I wish they'd stop using that piece with the accordion, or whatever it is, in every melancholy or sad moment.
 

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
Xerosic is incredibly psychotic this episode, the **** was that laugh? :S
That laugh and his voice is hilarious imo lol. I also really liked the interaction between Xerosic and Clemont inside the ship too when the rest of the gang was present, "Time to admit you've been defeated!"

Yeah I guess "leak" is the best choice of words, it's just a bit weird seeing these dub episodes earlier than expected.
 

doofinc

get rillaboomed
What in gods name was that marimba to start off the sad music? And what is that fanfare in the middle this isn't supposed to be happy moment. I really hope they hired someone else to handle the dub music for the Sun and Moon music. This dialogue is pretty cringey as well but the scene between Bonnie and Squishy at the end was pretty well done to be honest. But oh my god what is Noivern's cry like that is nightmare fuel. ples dub.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
"Oh, Greninja"

I'm sorry, I'm done.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
I confess, I didn't watch the entire episode; I only watched the farewell scene at the end (as I was most curious as to how the dub would handle that scene), and... what in the name of Arceus did I just watch?! That scene had so much emotion in the Japanese version. The way Ash's voice trembled, you could tell he was trying his hardest to put on a brave face, even though he was falling apart inside. Even Greninja was more somber than usual, and its voice actually cracked when it said its final farewell.

Here, Ash hardly sounded sad at all. He sounded a little less cheerful than usual, but he certainly didn't sound like he was about to break down in tears. It really lessened the emotional impact of the scene, IMO. The dub's background music for that scene didn't help at all. I thought the dub tended to leave music adapted from the game soundtrack intact. Why couldn't AZ's theme play during that scene?
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
I confess, I didn't watch the entire episode; I only watched the farewell scene at the end (as I was most curious as to how the dub would handle that scene), and... what in the name of Arceus did I just watch?! That scene had so much emotion in the Japanese version. The way Ash's voice trembled, you could tell he was trying his hardest to put on a brave face, even though he was falling apart inside. Even Greninja was more somber than usual, and its voice actually cracked when it said its final farewell.

Here, Ash hardly sounded sad at all. He sounded a little less cheerful than usual, but he certainly didn't sound like he was about to break down in tears. It really lessened the emotional impact of the scene, IMO. The dub's background music for that scene didn't help at all. I thought the dub tended to leave music adapted from the game soundtrack intact. Why couldn't AZ's theme play during that scene?
xD the crappy music and lousy VA absolutely killed the scene
 

deafcat

Active Member
Wouldn't exactly say "leaked" as it's more another country (probably Canada again) has played it before the US.

Xerosic is incredibly psychotic this episode, the **** was that laugh? :S

There were a few lines at the start of the episode that I just thought came out as strange, I'm pretty sure Clemont just repeated something Serena (I think it was) said before the opening played just with a little more detail. I assume that was in the Japanese version too but I didn't watch it with subs because of my semi-salt levels that Greninja got, for all intensive purposes, released and I didn't want to put myself through that again lol. Maybe I did but I just can't remember because it was a few months ago, or maybe I should say it was last year. Heh...

Didn't really have anything from the dub BGM that made me want to rip my ears out necessarily but I wish they'd stop using that piece with the accordion, or whatever it is, in every melancholy or sad moment.

I don't think Teletoon has aired it yet. My PVR would have recorded it as it is only set to record new episodes of Pokemon, and everything that aired yesterday (Pokemon Sun and Moon Epijsodes 1 and 2, Volcanion Movie, The First Day of the Rest of Your Life) recorded as scheduled (unlike last week where it started early so my recording started when Team Rocket was already talking to Giovanni)

My PVR would have recorded it if it aired on Friday during the Mon-Fri airings.

Facing the Needs of the Many is scheduled for the 7th on Teletoon.com, my tv guide just has a placeholder
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
This episode can be summed up by two phrases. "Greninja spamming" and "poorly written."

The entire episode is clearly drafted around releasing Greninja. Effectively it's one last display of awesomeness before the star of Ash's Kalos Team "grexits" stage left. Evidently Greninja is too awesome to Oak. Sitting around in an old man's lodge isn't a retirement betting of the ninja frog - that's for the Buizel's, Oshawott's and Snivy's of the series. No Greninja gets to fight mutant trees. And of course we can't have such a powerhouse by Ash's side when he starts from scratch as a student in Alola now can we?

And that might have been okay if the episode had been written better. But the justification for Greninja leaving is that it needs to help Zygarde (that's right even a legendary Pokémon recognises his Ninja awesomeness) fight vines created by negative energy that for an unexplained reason only he can see - that's convenient. Worse still is the actual goodbye scene. This entire "Bond Phenomena" was supposed to be caused by the strong bond between Greninja and Ash. Olympia said that Greninja had chosen to be with Ash because it was looking for love. Yet when Zygarde gives it's request Greninja more or less goes without a backward glance. No tears, no apparent conflict, just a hug and "see ya I'm off to fight mutant trees." And Ash, who raised him from a Froakie, more or less shrugs Greninja's on the spot decision to leave off saying he understands and it's what Greninja has to do. He sobs a little, but it's noticeably less painful for him than when he threw himself onto Goodra and crying into it's shoulder.

Did they actually like each other that much at all? Greninja's release seemed to consist more or less of Greninja saying "bye Ash, I'm off to play with my cool new legendary friends and won't see you again. But it was kinda cool you like, raised me and helped me become this strong and all." Even when Greninja hugged Ash, it's lack of any emotion whatsoever made it almost cold and meaningless. Ash's speech almost made it sound like he wanted Greninja to go, or at least didn't really care if he did. Strong bond implies strong friendship, which should mean not shrugging off the fact they'll never see each other again.

Aside from that the rest of the episode is fairly poor. The return of Xerosic is so rushed and simple that it feels like a prelude to the release scene and nothing more. Xerosic acted like a caricature of an evil villain rather than an actual character, his Team Neo-Flare consisting of just himself and Malamar, his project to finish Lysander's work involved driving around in a bus collecting Zygarde cells one by one - No cores apparently and he's foiled relatively easily by Clemont avoiding being mind controlled, Greninja awesomely climbing onto his bus's wing and a short battle in which Crobat and Malamar go down easily. So much for an evil genius. His plan was worse than most of Team Rocket's schemes. Why couldn't we have had something involving Essentia and Malva like in the games.

It's not like it immediately jumped and agreed to the Zygardes' request. IMHO, it seemed a little hesitant; it was only after Ash's speech that it decided to stay to protect Kalos. Part of loving someone is knowing when it's time to let them go; and you can love someone deeply, even if you are far apart from each other. Ash said so himself; his and Greninja's bond won't be broken by distance.

That's literally what happened. Ash said Greninja what will it be, and Greninja walked over to Zygarde. Ash's speech made it seem like he was completely understanding of why Greninja wanted to leave and if anything encouraged him to do so. There was no "I'll miss you" or "I don't want you to go." And while you can love someone deeply even if you are apart, the fact remains here they're never going to see or even talk to each other again. They can still love each other, but they can never express that love or enjoy each others company, which is kind of part of loving somebody. Their connection with each other now will only exist in memory. The bond may not be broken but it doesn't really mean anything.

"The bond Ash and his Pokemon share transcends any silly goal of winning the League. In a close relationship that a Pokemon and their trainer share, we have been shown time and time again that trainers always take into consideration their Pokemon's wishes and vice versa. It's a mutual relationship of respect.

It's not so much that the wishes should not have been taken into account but the fact that they existed in the first place. Greninja literally seems to have decided on the spot, "yeah I want to go and fight mutant vines with legendaries, goodbye Ash" despite the fact that they're supposed to, as Olympia put it, love each other. It can't really be a close relationship if one partner is happy to end it to do something he only found out was a thing less than five minutes before. At least when Goodra left, a more emotional scene, it was to be with and protect friends and family it had been with long before it had met Ash and presumably had a closer relationship with and cared more for then it did with Ash. When Dustox and Butterfree left in their respective seasons it was to be with a mate and for the opportunity to start a family - that's something that the two Pokémon were probably instinct driven to do so it's understandable why those wishes exist. What is Greninja exchanging Ash and a chance to grow stronger with him for - a chance to fight vines with two Zygarde cores it had only just met to combat a threat it had only just heard about. I suppose you might leave a partner for a job or out of a sense of duty but I'd expect most people to be sad about it. Greninja brushed it off like it was nothing.

"
And I repeat, Greninja was never going to make it to Alola anyway, so I am pleased it got its own story.

The release isn't so much the issue it's the bad justification for it. Goodra left to be with friends it had before meeting Ash and to protect them, Butterfree and Dustox went to be with their mates - who they'd only just met. Could we have at least had a Greninja mate or a pond full of Froakie that needed him more than Ash. Random vines, filled with never heard of before negative energy that Greninja it just so happens is the only one who can see is poor.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
That's literally what happened. Ash said Greninja what will it be, and Greninja walked over to Zygarde. Ash's speech made it seem like he was completely understanding of why Greninja wanted to leave and if anything encouraged him to do so. There was no "I'll miss you" or "I don't want you to go." And while you can love someone deeply even if you are apart, the fact remains here they're never going to see or even talk to each other again. They can still love each other, but they can never express that love or enjoy each others company, which is kind of part of loving somebody. Their connection with each other now will only exist in memory. The bond may not be broken but it doesn't really mean anything.

I'm not sure if you watched the original Japanese version or the English dub, but at least in the Japanese version, you could tell that Ash was trying to put on a brave face and do what he felt was right for Greninja, regardless of his own personal feelings. And you could tell that he was actually falling apart inside. The choked up tremor in his voice; how he finally gave in to his tears; even his little "Yes, this is for the best," as if he were trying to convince himself - those said it all.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the English dub completely ruined the emotion of the scene by...well, Ash not being emotional enough. There was hardly any sadness in his voice. And the musical score certainly did NOT help.
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if you watched the original Japanese version or the English dub, but at least in the Japanese version, you could tell that Ash was trying to put on a brave face and do what he felt was right for Greninja, regardless of his own personal feelings. And you could tell that he was actually falling apart inside. The choked up tremor in his voice; how he finally gave in to his tears; even his little "Yes, this is for the best," as if he were trying to convince himself - those said it all.

None of that appears in the dub. I only watch the dub. In the dub Ash sounds almost cheerful as he's saying why he's happy for Greninja to leave.

But it's still not clear why what's right for Greninja meant waving goodbye so Greninja could fight vines with his cool Zygarde friends. And even if Ash is emotion Greninja isn't. The frog parts with Ash as if it were nothing.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
None of that appears in the dub. I only watch the dub. In the dub Ash sounds almost cheerful as he's saying why he's happy for Greninja to leave.

Yeah, and that bothered the **** out of me. In the Japanese version, there was so much emotion in that scene. Ash's voice trembled, and you could tell he was close to breaking down in tears. He was putting on a brave face and trying to do what he felt was best for Greninja, regardless of his own personal feelings, but you could tell this was really hard for him.

But it's still not clear why what's right for Greninja meant waving goodbye so Greninja could fight vines with his cool Zygarde friends. And even if Ash is emotion Greninja isn't. The frog parts with Ash as if it were nothing.

That's another difference between the Japanese version and the English dub. In the Japanese version, Greninja's voice actually cracks when it says its final farewell (as it's walking away with the Zygardes). Throughout the entire scene, Greninja's voice was pretty quiet. Also, the Japanese version used AZ's theme for the background music, which really added to the emotion of the scene.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Dubbed or not, Greninja's farewell is so extremely random and weird.

Well, his hidden power as the CHOSEN ONE from the beginning in a story about a random Ash-looking Greninja saving a ninja village (called NINJA VILLAGE) in the distant past was also extremely random and weird.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Yeah, and that bothered the **** out of me. In the Japanese version, there was so much emotion in that scene. Ash's voice trembled, and you could tell he was close to breaking down in tears. He was putting on a brave face and trying to do what he felt was best for Greninja, regardless of his own personal feelings, but you could tell this was really hard for him.

The dubbers looked at Charizard and Goodra and were like "**** that, we know he's coming back."


Dubbed or not, Greninja's farewell is so extremely random and weird. Well, his hidden power as the CHOSEN ONE from the beginning in a story about a random Ash-looking Greninja saving a ninja village (called NINJA VILLAGE) in the distant past was also extremely random and weird.

Did the dub every clarify the whole sentient monolith-shapeshifting-Zygarde thing?
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Did the dub every clarify the whole sentient monolith-shapeshifting-Zygarde thing?

Apparently, that was the magic of Mega Evolution energy, implied Zygarde radiation that happened to assimilate Chespie into it and give it a not-so perfect form, and a LEGENDARY GIANT ROCK mixing together.

I could theorize merging with the Sundial would have made it a Perfect Zygarde that would blow up and destroy the world. (No, seriously. It was shown the world would be destroyed that way).
 
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