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Farewell, Sophocles! (969)

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Kinda disappointed they skipped past Grubbin, my favourite of the line. It if anything would have been more effective if Ash finally caught that elusive Grubbin....only to give let his buddy take the glory.

Concerning the ending, I feel like maybe it would have been better if the others, rather than just being generically warm and understanding, were just so excited that he wasn't leaving that they just comically missed the point, so still being forgiving to Sopociles, but in a much more comical way.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
i'm more surprised Ash brought the Charjabug in a cage, that seems like something TR would do.

I admit if they didn't add 'give 'em to the boss' nearly every time they try to snag a wild Pokemon, this show would begin suffering serious protagonist centred morality.

"You evil monsters! You can't take that Pokemon!"

"Why? You were trying to just now."

"W...becau....it.....Cause you're not using a Pokeball, man! What kind of barbarians are you?" XD

This episode really continued to show the problem the SM anime continues to have the longer it goes on...

For one, why do they have to make Ash singled out as the ultimate idiot in all of his reactions? This isn't even showing personality at all; it's degrading him from what he was in OS. He's not "acting his age" when it comes to way he "walks off angrily"...it's just stupid. But that's a minor quibble given my thought about Ash suddenly no longer being Ash in a general sense.

My real problem is the "companions" (a word I use loosely) just being handed stuff. Mallow was given an evolution despite Bounsweet and herself not actually doing anything until the episode where she did evolve; Lillie was just given the egg because why not (admittedly, this is less of a problem considering her character), and now Sophocles was given a Charjabug...because he lied about something? Like, fine, he battled but still...He was essentially given a reward for lying. Great lesson right there. Wonder what will be handed out next...

In fairness Ash's weird storming off was in Sopociles' daydream (along with everyone else hamming it up and Lana blowing a raspberry at him of all things). It's more how one of his companions views him, whether that helps or not. The companions tend to see Ash as this weird but brilliant foreign exchange student.

And the handed stuff thing is a bit irritating, but it's been done since the show begun (though Lillie getting the egg seemed no different from being handed a starter, at least there was some work involved raising it). As mentioned, we at least saw a companion still have to battle for it this time round.
 
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Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
Sophocles confirmed to be ambidextrous? In the beginning, his mouse was on the left side of his keyboard, but then throws a Pokeball with his right hand to catch Charjabug. :p

So the things I liked about this episode:

- Pikachu in a Popplio balloon when Kukui was teaching the class. :D
- Lana was suspicious of Sophocles actions when he tells the classmates of what he wants to do, w/out telling them the truth. The quiet one always knows, hehe.
- I liked the BGMs being used (Snowbelle City BGM, telling his classmates about him moving and flying around with Kiawe. The Egg is Safe BGM being played when Sophocles was with Lana, riding around, etc..)
- The classmates reactions in Sophocles vision (especially Lille and Lana :p ) when he knows that he has to tell them that he's not moving.
- The food in Mallow's establishment was cool, and oh Lillie...why must you cry and make me a little sad as well.
- The ending was a bit humorous as well, with just about everyone getting shocked.
- Ash getting a Charjabug for Sophocles (even though we already knew that, thanks Rotomdex!)

This episode was ok, but I can obviously see why Sophocles was a bit worried about telling his classmates the truth and prolonged it. I think it's normal for a kid his age (something people have to remember, he's a kid, and kids do these things), and it's also normal that his classmates were glad or not angry about him lying to them in a sense, because he was in fact staying (I obviously base that on their reactions to the news of his leaving throughout the episode and how sad they were about it).
 

flashtone

Active Member
The Snowbelle City music theme playing just after being asked by his classmates why he wasn't his usual self was the highlight of this episode for me
 

mystic9899

Pokemon fan
so apparently the reason lillie cried was that when she moved to melemele island, sophocles was the first person she talked to.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
so apparently the reason lillie cried was that when she moved to melemele island, sophocles was the first person she talked to.

This will be enough for the anime shippers. That's all they need to know.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Is there even a Sophocles and Lillie ship?

I guess they're both smart...nerdshipping it is
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Um...in the end, the fact that he knew the truth at any point and withheld it is intentionally lying. It's pretty much a textbook definition of it. Doesn't matter the reason why, particularly since he was reaping seeming benefits from it. It's no different than Clemont trying to divert attention from Clembot taking over his gym, which was treated as a lie there, as well. Maybe not the same magnitude but still...a lie is a lie.

Having finally seen the episode, I can see that even with my no knowledge of the Japanese language (though some people have also clarified), none of the criticisms about Sophocles is really valid. If you don't like Sophocles fine, but don't put him under a category of scum a category doesn't belong.

Now if I understand correctly:

1. All Sophocles knew that he was moving it wasn't until near the middle of the episode he realized he wasn't moving all that much.

2. Kiawe's "gift" to Sophocles has to be ignored because if I understand the timeline, he STILL assumed he was moving away and only learned otherwise AFTER Kiawe taking him to a volcano.

3. After learning the truth, Sophocles was terrified of their potential reactions, and therefore was unwilling to reveal what was going on.

4. Lana then took it upon herself to take Sophocles to a sunset and Wailord watching (or something close to that)

5. On the supposed last day everyone parted ways while Sophocles DID try to tell everyone at that point, but everyone hurried up.

6. I assume he was at Mallow to try to tell the truth, I assume that because Mallow forced him into the restaurant, if he was the scum everyone is criticizing him for, apparently then he would've gladly walked in.

7. Meanwhile to the ignorance of everyone else, Ash was trying to give Sophocles a Pokemon gift.

8. While celebrating Sophocles's farewell, Sophocles while enjoying the food, was completely uneasy about the whole situation, with the added guilt of not being able to tell. Cue Lillie crying.

9. Ash returns, leading to Sophocles catching Charjabug.

10. Everyone is saying their final goodbyes, resulting in Sophocles crying because he couldn't handle the guilt of not being able to tell them sooner that he wasn't actually leaving, just moving a way, and he was sorry for everyone who was being nice to him because he left, but instead of them reacting the way he thought they were relieved and happy he wasn't leaving.

The only fair criticism that I can think of Sophocles, is that he must think of them lowly to assume that they would stop being his friend just because of a misunderstanding.

But everything else is not what I would consider valid criticism.

Sophocles did not LIE to benefit everyone treating him nice, if you think that, then I would question your logic here. If it takes Sophocles leaving for his friends to be THIS nice to him, then how is Sophocles in the wrong here? Sophocles barely benefited and didn't fully enjoy what he was getting. As I said Kiawe has to be excluded immediately because Sophocles only found out the truth afterwards. The most beneficial thing that Sophocles ever received in this episode was the food Mallow made for Sophocles. While Kiawe (to generally add him to this not that it counts) and Lana could easily had been more friendly to him and offered him the things they gave him before.

Now I suppose there is Charjabug and Ash, but I wouldn't consider that truly beneficial since even though Ash did put effort into bringing Charjabug to Sophocles, Sophocles did battle and catch it like a normal Pokemon, not entirely sure Sophocles "benefited from lying" as people claim. Especially since there was literally no way for Sophocles to admit the truth to Ash before that happened except for the Lana day, and even then there's a couple of problems: Sophocles was entirely caught up in his fear of what his friends would say, and more than likely was caught off guard with Lana.

By the next day they all left before Sophocles could admit what was going on, and unless he specifically went to Kukui's house to talk to Ash first, there's probably no way Sophocles could've stopped Ash from getting Charjabug.


Like I said the only fair criticism is Sophocles doubting his friends and what they think about him. Everything else, not so much. Especially with the consideration that they would only be THIS nice to him and do THESE kinds of things just because he's moving and this is THEIR farewell gifts? Kind of think Sophocles is okay enjoying these moments.

However if we go back to Mallow, I don't know if Mallow can be included here since she has done these things before, she does work at her family restaurant, and I feel like I said, this is probably the only one I would argue would be Sophocles's fault, at least to a point. I don't know if the restaurant was normally closed at that time, and Sophocles was just an exception, or that Mallow reserved that time for Sophocles, I don't know if Mallow used special ingredients that she can't use willy nilly but could because of what she thought was Sophocles's farewell, the only thing truly questionable but I expect Mallow would've done it for certain special occasions was the Sophocles and Togedemaru decorations on the food so even then I don't think that was truly out of the wall for Mallow.

But kind of shame on Kiawe and Lana if they were only doing those things because they thought Sophocles was leaving. It was nice gesture, but something you couldn't have done before? I mean sure, I do get the idea that you do normal things with friends on a normal day but for special days you especially go out, but hanging out with Sophocles didn't exactly strike me as going all out for your friend because of the occasion that it was. I'd say Kiawe might be more justified than Lana since Kiawe took Sophocles to Akala Island, but Ash has visited Akala island so unless Kiawe would normally only hang out with Sophocles on Melemele Island, I'm not seeing how much of a special occasion it was or how much effort it was for Kiawe to doing it. But it was more extreme than sunset and Wailord watching unless it was a seasonal thing and Lana was hoping to do it with someone else.

But yeah, I'm not seeing the hate being justified for Sophocles.
 

satopi

Go’s Scizor needs to Hassam better episodes:/
The Snowbelle City theme is being overused at this point. It doesn't even make me feel that emotional, use different music that isn't obvious choices from the previous saga.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
The Snowbelle City theme is being overused at this point. It doesn't even make me feel that emotional, use different music that isn't obvious choices from the previous saga.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using themes from a previous series, as long as they fit. The Snowbelle City theme was a great choice for Litten's mourning in SM21, for instance. That being said, I'm not sure it was the best choice of BGM for the scene where Sophocles told his friends he was moving. I've come to associate the Snowbelle City theme with sadness and parting in the anime, and while Sophocles telling his friends he was moving was sad, the moment Mallow went into party-planning mode, the mood changed. It also didn't really work as well when Kiawe was showing Sophocles the Wela Volcano park.
 

Darthlord7

Explorer
They should honestly start bringing back pre BW bgms for more variation.

Unfortunately, the pre BW ost seems to be pretty much dead at this point if you exclude the cut off version of the Sinnoh Gym Leader/Elite Four theme which plays randomly from time to time.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
This episode was ok, but I can obviously see why Sophocles was a bit worried about telling his classmates the truth and prolonged it. I think it's normal for a kid his age (something people have to remember, he's a kid, and kids do these things), and it's also normal that his classmates were glad or not angry about him lying to them in a sense, because he was in fact staying (I obviously base that on their reactions to the news of his leaving throughout the episode and how sad they were about it).

I think that's something else people need to remember, as well: Sophocles is a child. His behavior is completely understandable and natural for a child, especially one who has insecurities about others' opinion of him. Also, as you said, it's more natural for Ash, Lillie, Kiawe, Mallow, and Lana--who are also children--to be happy and relieved that their friend wasn't moving after all, than for them to be angry with him for withholding the truth (although he did try to tell them).

Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think one of the lessons here was for Sophocles to learn that his friends care more about him than he thought they did even if, as dman_dustin pointed out, it took for them to think he was moving for them to actually give him presents, and their getting angry with him would have taken away from that lesson.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Think the biggest problem with Snowbelle City being used as BGM was that it had been used for Goodra's release and Litten's mourning, actual events that cause sadness.

Sophocles' 'leaving' was a fake out (and everyone in PAD Spoilers knew that he wouldn't leave because of a VA list)
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Ah, 'shocking' that he didn't leave. It's nice to see that a Charjabug will be part of the main cast. I think it may even be that Grubbin from before.
 
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