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February 22nd: SM63 - Burn with Passion, Nyabby! Down with Gaogaen!!

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p96822

Evolve me please
So this is going to be simallar to when Flectherder and Pignite evolved. They faced their evolved forms, then Evolve and then learn a new move in the progress
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Gladion might, but as far as Hau showing up I wouldn't count on that if anything I expect Kiawe or one of the other main characters to take Hau's place.

This episode should be about Ash and Litten, I doubt Hau will get to debut here since it would be out of place. If he did, I'd assume he'd debut with a Brionne.

Hopefully Kukui having Incineroar means Ash 'chose Rowlet as the PC' and evolves it up to Decidueye.

Keep Torracat as a cute little Torracat, I love Incineroar but Ash has far too many humanoid aces.

I agree. Though you have to wonder whether or not Decidueye is pretty much as humanoid as you can get, it's an owl that can shoot arrows like a human archer.. soooo.. xD

In any case, I like how everybody who said: "well, there's the eventual Incineroar for Ash", the moment we saw Torracat in the scan are now having serious doubts.. xD

More importantly, it implies they are keeping Primarina for Hau.

It could?

Aha! So Kukui's team is slowly being revealed. He mentioned Braviary was his partner, so that means that Incineroar was possibly his wrestling partner. Hey, with Kukui having Incineroar that means Ash's ace will likely be Decidueye. Makes sense, why bother giving him Incineroar is Kukui can just show it off.

Burnet is really into the Masked Royal persona in the games... I wonder if Kukui will show her his kink. :)

I hope Decidueye will be the ace, but you never know. It would need to happen fast.

Does Kukui wear a ring since they got hitched? That could be a tell for some of the characters..

Ash's Fletchinder beat Talonflame and still evolved.

And Ash's Froakie had serious problems against Sanpei's evolved forms, and it still evolved fully.

Win or lose, doesn't matter for Torracat's future, it's entirely up to the writers, though Incineroar belonging to "Kukui" is very problematic, unless he has all of the fully evolved starters and doesn't prevent Ash for at least having one fully evolved starter, then I honestly have no idea why they chose to give him an Incineroar.

And when Torracat doesn't evolve before 8th generation starts, NOTE that this stupid problem the writers have by forcing other characters with Pokemon preventing the main protagonist for example from having them, is why I'll be livid, going into the 8th generation anime. And I really hope I'm wrong and it does end up evolving.

I'll be far less upset however if Ash at least, does end up getting Decidueye, but again when 8th generation rolls around and Ash doesn't have Decidueye or Incineroar, I'll be extremely livid.

Honestly, when we're this deep into the series and Ash still needs to capture 2 pokémon and one looks like it will get released at the end anyway, there's going to be reasons abound to be livid with the animé. Seeing Ash with Decidueye would be the best scenario - it was the best scenario since they revealed Decidueye to be honest.

Paul had Torterra and Gliscor, Ash has Torterra and Gliscor. Barry had Heracross and Staraptor, Ash has Heracross and Staraptor. It can happen, but Paul's Torterra, Gliscor, Barry's Heracross and Staraptor all got massively swept under the rug in favor of not out performing Ash's (somehow this still applies to Ash's Torterra..).

I doubt he will, but if Hau appears, he will probably come with an Alolan Raichu.

I'd rather see him with Brionne, because as a rival we would still want to see some development in Hau and they could do that with him showcasing the midstage and working towards Primarina.

You mean like how Tepig fought Emboar, evolved into Pignite, and beat Emboar (and Heatmor)?

Inb4 Kiawe's Turtonator = Heatmor in this comparison. Now that I mention it, what if Kukui or someone else grants Ash Firium Z after Torracat's performance?

Now let's hope this episode doesn't end up doing the same to Litten as what that episode did to Tepig, where it evolved to Pignite and stopped there. I still want to see Ash with Incineroar tbh, even if I'm mixed about it (I don't hate it, but it isn't amongst my favorites either).

I hell, I hope that is what's going to be the case! I don't hate Incineroar, but I do think it's massively overhyped and its signature Z-move too ridiculous to do regularly in the animé.

Pretty sure Emboar didn't happen because Ash's team was too crowded in Unova. If he ditched some of the weaker members and focused on the better ones he would've had a great team of 6, but now he has a mediocre squad of 9 (excluding Pikachu). Pikachu, Unfezant, Emboar, Oshawott, Leavanny, Krookodile. #Trimmed

Or they could've been more creative and given him Hawlucha, a Pokemon that he doesn't have in the games.

Kukui only has Incineroar only if the player chose to give him Rowlet.

If Ash doesn't get Incineroar the only reason they're giving it to Kukui is because of the stupid excuse because now they don't have to give one to Ash. Just like what happened in 5th generation with Oshawott and Cameron having Samurott. Ash wasn't going to to debut any of the final evolved starters, so why not give Samurott to the convenient rival character along with Emboar and Bianca and Trip with Serperior. Along with Burgundy just an excuse not to evolve Oshawott, as well as the whole Trip situation which led to Snivy never developing in any meaningful way.

So I admit, it doesn't always happen, but when it does happen, it's painfully obvious.

But its why I'm leaving this open, because I don't know what's going to happen. It could be ultimately meaningless or it could be ultimately obvious.

No, you're seriously not suggesting that they should've gone off script and give him a Hawlucha? Just because you think it would interfere with Ash's chances to get an Incineroar when it fits PERFECTLY with the game and the character. I can't agree.

And which starter did Ash get first in Alola? Pretty sure that was Rowlet, so Kukui with Incineroar is what would happen in the games as well.

The only reason? It just looks as if you're looking for excuses here, the writers saw the painfully obvious connection between wrestler Kukui and wrestler Incineroar.

Oshawott didn't evolve because it was the follow to Piplup in that generation - BW-series was rushed as a whole and Ash had a crowded team. Oh yeah, because Paul debuting Torterra meant that Turtwig never evolved or developed in any meaningful way? Odd how your argument just falls flat with that one sentence. Was Kenny's Prinplup and Barry's Empoleon suddenly the reason why Dawn's Piplup never evolved? It works the other way around, Dawn's Piplup was never going to evolve because of marketing reasons, and then why wouldn't they show off the other forms with recurring characters?! You should really no better. The Burgundy excuse is the kicker of it all.. A tertiary character at best, that had zero to do with Ash, somehow being an excuse for keeping Oshawott from evolving..

Seems exciting that Incineroar appears in this episode, marking its debut in the SM anime, and that it will be battling Ash's Litten. Kinda exciting that it's a Battle Royale, but it just doesn't make sense to put it during the Ultra Beast arc.

It's quite simple, Ash needs the power-up. He has Pikachu and Lycanroc, and Rowlet and Litten at where they were just aren't believable counters to Ultra Beasts, not even when they attack as a group. If Torracat is shown to do well against Incineroar after the evolution, then it is instantly a lot more believable to hold its own against an UB. Simple as that.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Ah, so Akala and the Royal Mask is getting some love after all. Good to know the anime's going back to some of it's loose ends.

I'm guessing Litten will do the usual 'evolving mid battle' though. Meh.
 
This just proves that once again the fans freaked out for no reason.

Remember when the Akala arc was over and people acted like we would never see Battle Royale and then complained about it? And acted like we would never go to Akala again?
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
What if the Royal isn't Kukui I'm the anime, but Burnet? Or Oak?
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
I wonder how Burnet will react.... does she know. And i hope we at least get some shot of Molayne being in the audience for a set-up (He is the only one who knows who the Masked Royal is in the games, so makes sense if he at least is involved).
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
More importantly, it implies they are keeping Primarina for Hau.
That's assuming Hau appears in the anime, and at this point, I have a feeling he won't. Ash already has a rival in Gladion (who has decided to partake in the Island Challenge). Besides, I would rather see Lana's Popplio fully evolve.

This just proves that once again the fans freaked out for no reason.

Remember when the Akala arc was over and people acted like we would never see Battle Royale and then complained about it? And acted like we would never go to Akala again?
That's exactly what I was thinking when this episode was revealed. After the Akala Grand Trial arc was over, I kept saying there was nothing stopping Ash from returning to Akala Island in the future, because there was still a lot on Akala Island to explore,such as the Battle Royal. And look—now Ash and his friends are returning to Akala Island for the Battle Royal.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
I predict Kukui to have the last stage of all three starters, not just Incineroar, which will slowly be revealed, sloooowly, until the league.

I kind of hope Litten/Torracat loses this battle, because I want Kukui to be an incredibly strong trainer compared to Ash right now. But super excited for this evolution episode, Litten works so hard and deserves this. I'm curious if he'll learn double kick when he evolves, which then I could see Incineroar taking heavy damage from Torracat.
 

FrozTKnight

Will ORA ORA ORA you
I would honestly prefer if Litten stays a Torracat especially since the design looks cool as hell.

I mean its Pokedex entries already make its fighting style extremely unique and Ash has already had a Wrestler Pokemon "Hawlucha"

Sun At its throat, it bears a bell of fire. The bell rings brightly whenever this Pokémon spits fire.
Moon It boasts powerful front legs. With a single punch, it can bend an iron bar right over.

I wanted some Tai Lung/Tigress type of action from Incineroar but after watching the movie he looks extremely clumsy implementing his cat like running into its fighting style because of the messed up proportions of its limbs. But even Litten evolves in the Incineroar I wouldn't mind.

And if Rowlet does evolve Decidueye is the best form of the line, a ghost archer sounds way to cool and after looking at its Pokken fightng style its coolness factor reached to Sceptile and Greninja levels... And I don't if they would do this by it they actually give Decidueye he Z-Move I hope they change the one in the games to look more like his "Super Attack" in Pokken, since it looks way cooler and keeps it in line with it archer theme it has.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I predict Kukui to have the last stage of all three starters, not just Incineroar, which will slowly be revealed, sloooowly, until the league.

I kind of hope Litten/Torracat loses this battle, because I want Kukui to be an incredibly strong trainer compared to Ash right now. But super excited for this evolution episode, Litten works so hard and deserves this. I'm curious if he'll learn double kick when he evolves, which then I could see Incineroar taking heavy damage from Torracat.

Yeah cases where a Pokemon is losing, evolves and then suddenly cleans house come off as cheap to me. Him either evolving after the battle or evolving but only getting so much better would be a more natural way to progress things. Plus Ash could use a few clean losses.

That's exactly what I was thinking when this episode was revealed. After the Akala Grand Trial arc was over, I kept saying there was nothing stopping Ash from returning to Akala Island in the future, because there was still a lot on Akala Island to explore,such as the Battle Royal. And look—now Ash and his friends are returning to Akala Island for the Battle Royal.

I admit I'm liking how SM seems to keep going back to things that seem to get neglected or shafted. While Akala's run still feels a bit limited, a couple return trips like this would vindicate the first arc (which in fairness was a nice handful of episodes with good character development).
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
No, you're seriously not suggesting that they should've gone off script and give him a Hawlucha? Just because you think it would interfere with Ash's chances to get an Incineroar when it fits PERFECTLY with the game and the character. I can't agree.
It's called being creative, rather than typically boring, since you see to fail to see the countless examples of them going off script. The only reason your argument would make any sense is if Incineroar exists because of Masked Royal, or that Masked Royal was created because of Incineroar.

Korinna didn't even have a Hawlucha, and Volkner didn't even have an Ambipom (that we say of anyway).

They have gone off script, hell Lana has a Popplio, it wouldn't be surprising if they went off script for Kukui. And then there's Crasher Wake who was also a wrestler, but didn't have ANY wrestling themed Pokemon even IN the anime.

Besides if the argument is because Masked Royal is a wrestler is why they gave him Incineroar, would have to be implying Masked Royal is a heel wrestler.

And which starter did Ash get first in Alola? Pretty sure that was Rowlet, so Kukui with Incineroar is what would happen in the games as well.
Then why is it Litten vs Incineroar, or why does Ash even have a Litten to begin with. You honestly can't argue they injected Masked Royal into the series just because someone HAD to have an Incineroar and that it had to be used as a plot point to evolve Litten, as it would make it too dissimilar to the argument that it was because of "Rowlet"

The only reason? It just looks as if you're looking for excuses here, the writers saw the painfully obvious connection between wrestler Kukui and wrestler Incineroar.
Of course it's the only reason if Ash doesn't get Incineroar himself.

Because like I said, Kukui only has a 1 in 3 chance of even having an Incineroar on his team.

If Masked Royal being a wrestler truly mattered, he wouldn't have just used Rockruff in his only appearance as Masked Royal (at least in the Sun and Moon games, not sure about Ultra Sun or Ultra Moon), and they sure as hell would've given him Hawlucha instead of Braviary, at the very least if he had Primarina and Decidueye, if they were trying to make it not too obvious.

Oshawott didn't evolve because it was the follow to Piplup in that generation - BW-series was rushed as a whole and Ash had a crowded team. Oh yeah, because Paul debuting Torterra meant that Turtwig never evolved or developed in any meaningful way? Odd how your argument just falls flat with that one sentence. Was Kenny's Prinplup and Barry's Empoleon suddenly the reason why Dawn's Piplup never evolved? It works the other way around, Dawn's Piplup was never going to evolve because of marketing reasons, and then why wouldn't they show off the other forms with recurring characters?! You should really no better. The Burgundy excuse is the kicker of it all.. A tertiary character at best, that had zero to do with Ash, somehow being an excuse for keeping Oshawott from evolving..

Let me requote in bold what you apparently missed in my post the first time.

"So I admit, it doesn't always happen, but when it does happen, it's painfully obvious.

But its why I'm leaving this open, because I don't know what's going to happen. It could be ultimately meaningless or it could be ultimately obvious
"

Because apparently you missed the part where I said "It doesn't always happen"

But it's clear that when they choose NOT to give a character a certain Pokemon they have to shove that Pokemon in our face in some other way.

It'll be obvious should Ash not get Incineroar, that its the only reason they gave Masked Royal an Incineroar, because someone absolutely HAS to show off Incineroar.
 

Rajas

Well-Known Member
What ultimately confuses me about this episode is if Kukui is kept as Royal Mask, where the heck are his Pokemon on a daily basis? Constantly in Poke Balls seems a bit mean...
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
Incineroar is literally the wrestling Pokemon though, like of course they're gonna do an episode about that. And since there's already a wrestling human character as well, might as well put them together. Using Hawlucha wouldn't be more creative, that's already been done in XY, you gotta showcase the NEW wrestling Pokemon. And waiting for Ash's to evolve to do that episode wouldn't really make sense since Ash's cat isn't an actual wrestler, you need that veteran perspective to show off the sport. We wanna see the real tiger mask, not Ash's Incineroar awkwardly attempting to wrestle.

So basically this scenario makes all the sense in the world and it doesn't effect Ash's chances of getting an Incineroar at all unless Kukui's Incineroar becomes a permanent cast member after this, which I doubt, it seems more likely that it lives in Akala and only joins him for Battle Royal events (I'd hope at least, him having another hidden "partner" that no one has ever seen because it's always in its ball would be so weird, Braviary is already a stretch and I hope it has some specific backstory that's shown eventually).
 
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mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
I feel that kukui will be ash's final battle in alola, or at least the alola league
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
It's called being creative, rather than typically boring, since you see to fail to see the countless examples of them going off script. The only reason your argument would make any sense is if Incineroar exists because of Masked Royal, or that Masked Royal was created because of Incineroar.
Why would the writers give Kukui the Masked Royal a Hawlucha when Alola has its own native wrestling Pokémon in Incineroar? With his wrestler theme, the Masked Royal is the perfect character (aside from Ash) to debut Incineroar. Creativity aside, the Masked Royal having an Incineroar just makes sense.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
I'm really curious who the other two pokemon are in this battle royal, and are the rules going to be the exact same as the games or are they going to switch it up? It'd be more interesting if the battles went on until it was last man standing for Litten and Incineroar to go head to head after knocking the other two out, but i'm sure they'll make it work.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Why would the writers give Kukui the Masked Royal a Hawlucha when Alola has its own native wrestling Pokémon in Incineroar? With his wrestler theme, the Masked Royal is the perfect character (aside from Ash) to debut Incineroar. Creativity aside, the Masked Royal having an Incineroar just makes sense.

Then the Masked Royal is a heel wrestler, fine.
 
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