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Feelings on Journey/OT Fics

Legend of Lucario

Songwriter
Mehh, I know, you guys probably want to destroy me for even asking such a silly question but, seriously. How do you guys feel about journey or OT fics?

I like to read them, as long as they don't reek of cliche. Now, I really don't have too much room to talk because all of my failed attempts at journey or OT fics were full of cliches like "OH MY GAWD, I CONVENIENTLY LIVE IN THE SAME TOWN AS THE POKEMON PROFESSOR. I'M GOING TO GO INTO HIS LAB, TALK TO HIM AND THE GRANDSON WHO'S NAME HE CAN'T REMEMBER AND THEN ASKS ME TO TELL HIM SO I CAN NAME HIM SOMETHING VULGAR, GET A PIKACHU THAT HATES ME AT FIRST AND A POKEDEX AND BE ON MY MERRY WAY!"

Which I'll admit that the child being in the same town is okay (to me, anyways), but the Pikachu/Charmander/Cyndaquil thing is what gets on my nerves.

But then again, if that's the Pokemon that you want the trainer to have, mehh.

I've also taken notice that most people start their trainer off in Kanto or Johto, which doesn't really bug me but, still.

Anyways, the reason I'm really asking my question, is because I'm thinking of writing another one, and I'm praying to God that it won't die in the cliche trap but still, I just wanted to know everyone's feelings before I go filling up the Fan Fiction section with another OT/Journey Fic.
 

Wyrm

~Setting Sail~
Journey fics must either smell of originality or just be the equivalent of the great American novel in order to really be noticed. Otherwise, nuts to all of us.

Here's the deal: we can conclude that journey fics were always cool for the first couple of months since their invention. Then they glow, and evolve into an ugly cliche. Congratulations, that's one more idea down the garbage can. People have grown tired of 'I choose you, Cyndaquil!' and look for other things which are still in the pre-evolution of the cliche: 'the latest in fashion'. Or at least something which isn't a carbon copy of the same old thing that's already been done thousands of times. Unless the journey is that of sheer literary beastliness, we (and I) usually just go 'meh' and scoot on over to something else.
 
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Sound

Well-Known Member
Journey fics, for me, have to be really original. I don't write them, so I can't help you there, but I have read several good ones. For example, nobody considers "The Awesome of Awesomeness" and "The Random of Randomness" to be cliche, even though they do technically fall into the Journey fic category. You'll want to be as original as possible, while sticking with the genre. One example is to write the chapter, then ask the question "What could go wrong in this?" Maybe the trainer runs into a pack of wild pokemon, or is ambushed by the villians. Anything that keeps it from getting too dull and predictable, really. It would also be a good idea to include some running gags.
 

Dragonfree

Just me
Unless the journey is that of sheer literary bestiality
...I do not think that word means what you think it means.

People love journey fics. There are always threads about how everybody hates them but ultimately the most popular long-running fics on the forums tend to be journey fics. Hell, they don't even have to be overly original to get huge followings. Of course, making it good in the eyes of more discerning critics is a slightly different matter.
 

JX Valentine

Ever-Discordant
...I do not think that word means what you think it means.

And if ilovedragonites did mean it that way, I want to state for the record that I would read the mess out of that fanfic, just to see how that would work.

That being said, I'm personally "meh" about them. It's not due to whether they're cliché or not because I know that there are some journey fics I enjoy that pretty much hit every trope on the way down, if you know what I mean. It's because it's just not my cuppa. In other words, it's like saying that sci-fi isn't everyone's favorite genre or that not everyone jumps at romance. Sure, you might justify it by saying X, Y, or Z, but in the end, it just doesn't float your boat. That's how journey fics are with me. I can enjoy them if they really happen to be good in my book, but I don't enjoy every single one of them and generally don't go out actively looking for more of it. And the difference between the ones I enjoy and the ones I don't is basically that the ones that I don't enjoy don't have what I consider to be likable characters or a plot that interests me or a writing style that catches my attention and holds it. *shrug*

Also, I always find it interesting that a lot of people say the word "cliché" in a thread like this, but the definition of what a cliché fic is never really gets brought up. Or if people do mention a few things that are clichés, that list only covers things that would be brought up in the first few chapters. For example, we've already mentioned the starter issue, the meet-a-professor issue, and the region issue. (Side note: Don't forget the fics that always start off in the newest region or fan-created regions. I'm not sure if it was as bad here as anywhere else, but I remember that when DP came out, everyone and their mothers on other outlets had their characters start off in Sinnoh. Nowadays, there's quite a lot of Unova fic but not Hoenn or Sinnoh fic.) Those are clichés that are problems of only the beginning of the fic, but what about issues later on? If a journey fic moves past that point, what about the other 90% of the story? Can it be well-written if the first 10% is horrendously cliché? What kinds of clichés should a writer watch out for later on?

I ask this because it feels like this would be a good opportunity to teach people how to write a journey fic, but it always feels like discussions about them get hung up on the fic's beginning. Which I guess is a warning in itself, but still.
 
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Legend of Lucario

Songwriter
I ask this because it feels like this would be a good opportunity to teach people how to write a journey fic, but it always feels like discussions about them get hung up on the fic's beginning. Which I guess is a warning in itself, but still.

You know, I didn't think about that, but most of the cliches are in the beginning of a journey fic. The things that are usually pointed out are cliches are

> Begins journey in popular region (or newest region).
> Trainer conveniently lives right next door to the Professor, who is either going to give them the most popular starter of that generation or a Pikachu, or Eevee, or something like that.

Then again, there is also the Mary-Sue, Gary-Stu factor, but then again, that really isn't a cliche it's more bad character development.

If an author does have a great writing style, the cliches can almost be overlooked, really. I absolutely love HLBMA, which actually is a remodeled version of Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald, but since Breezy's a fabulous writer, you kind of get over that, because she develops likable characters and has excellent flow.
 

Laevateinn

Ghost-Type Trainer
You know, I didn't think about that, but most of the cliches are in the beginning of a journey fic. The things that are usually pointed out are cliches are

> Begins journey in popular region (or newest region).
> Trainer conveniently lives right next door to the Professor, who is either going to give them the most popular starter of that generation or a Pikachu, or Eevee, or something like that.

Then again, there is also the Mary-Sue, Gary-Stu factor, but then again, that really isn't a cliche it's more bad character development.

I noticed that too. I pretty much began tearing my hair out on FanFiction.net due to the fact that most "novels" people had written were either half-finished, had no effort or thought put into them, or fell victim to the cliche monster that is "journey fics". Most follow the same pattern - go to lab, get cliche starter, fight rival, blah, blah, blah. What most of these fics are lacking is a personal and original twist - for example, I read one once which started as a journey fic. But the main character encounters a Smeargle which uses Sketch on the pokeball as it captures it and thus, the Smeargle can now be used to capture any pokemon the trainer chooses... which eventually leads to a life of crime.

I think it also depends on the main character, I pay special attention to fanfics where the main character has some sort of (or various) disability or ailment, mentally and/or physically, they need to overcome during the journey. Any character which starts off as the bog-standard trainer which is a copy of Ash or other protagonists and doesn't change at all is as interseting as toast to me.
 

Avenger Angel

Warrior of Heaven
They were good the first few times, and then I just got tired of them. Sure, it's nice to read about someone else's journey besides Ash Ketchum, but after a while, you realize their story is pretty much the same, the setting is the same, and so on. The process is too standard, and even slight deviations from the original formula the game uses just don't cut it for me anymore. It's like reading a story about an alien invasion, and the aliens are out to kill humans, and they've got better technology than we do. We've all heard it before, and it's like a worn down horse that now needs its rest.

Truthfully... things would have to be drastically different for me to pick up a journey fic again. And I mean DRASTICALLY different. The formula of a fledgling trainer beginning their Pokémon journey is fine, but I want to see it happen in a world that isn't so ordinary. Maybe something dark and dangerous happened that changed the world forever, but somehow, someone still feels it's important for trainers to carry on, and keep the tradition alive however they can. Maybe training Pokémon for protection and survival has become more important than before now...

Maybe this journey fic happens in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where most cities are only burnt husks of their former urban majesty, and instead, Pokémon leagues and battles take place in junkyard towns, all built by survivors from the remnants of what was found in the rubble. In a setting like that, there's more danger than what meets the eyes in the wasteland, such as pillagers, raiders, and those seeking to take advantage of shattered society. And maybe there's some other goal that the trainer also has to do, the reason why they're training Pokémon in the first place. Or maybe, these are the ways society is trying to build itself up again from the ashes of whatever disaster left the world to waste. I would love to check out a trainer fic that does that (I'm a Fallout, Book of Eli, Mad Max, and Borderlands junkie, so of course I would). That's thinking outside the box.

Or maybe it all happens in a darker, cyberpunk world where Pokémon training is contraband, but an underground organization is doing it in secret, and wants to create an uprising against the system, kind of like V for Vendetta. Battles are underground, gyms are in the abandoned subways and sewers, and the league is always operating in secret, always trying to protect itself from those that would seek to dismantle the entire thing. These are ordinary people during the day, but when the night is alive, the leagues go underground, and away from the authority's prying gaze. However, the league always has to be careful about who they decide to trust, and the threat of them being exposed is always there. The fledging trainer knows the risks they are about to take on, but they still want to do it. Maybe because this time, the purpose of training Pokémon now means so much more.

And these are just two examples of trainer fics that would be interesting and would catch my eye. Unfortunately, I really haven't ever seen this kind of thing done before, but I hope someone's reading this and gets inspired from it.
 

donotlookatdiagram

Active Member
Neo Pikachu said:
Maybe this journey fic happens in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where most cities are only burnt husks of their former urban majesty, and instead, Pokémon leagues and battles take place in junkyard towns, all built by survivors from the remnants of what was found in the rubble. In a setting like that, there's more danger than what meets the eyes in the wasteland, such as pillagers, raiders, and those seeking to take advantage of shattered society. And maybe there's some other goal that the trainer also has to do, the reason why they're training Pokémon in the first place. Or maybe, these are the ways society is trying to build itself up again from the ashes of whatever disaster left the world to waste. I would love to check out a trainer fic that does that (I'm a Fallout, Book of Eli, Mad Max, and Borderlands junkie, so of course I would). That's thinking outside the box.

Or maybe it all happens in a darker, cyberpunk world where Pokémon training is contraband, but an underground organization is doing it in secret, and wants to create an uprising against the system, kind of like V for Vendetta. Battles are underground, gyms are in the abandoned subways and sewers, and the league is always operating in secret, always trying to protect itself from those that would seek to dismantle the entire thing. These are ordinary people during the day, but when the night is alive, the leagues go underground, and away from the authority's prying gaze. However, the league always has to be careful about who they decide to trust, and the threat of them being exposed is always there. The fledging trainer knows the risks they are about to take on, but they still want to do it. Maybe because this time, the purpose of training Pokémon now means so much more.

... I might want to take you up on that offer.

On topic, I personally liked the first few journeyfics I read, but now, I don't really read the more serious ones and tend towards the comedic ones.

However, I will read more serious journeyfics if they have an original twist that gets me hooked on the story. I do believe that people should write journeyfics, because they are an excellent exercise in characterization. Because the plot is already written for you, all you need to do is come up with character traits for all of the characters. However, you need to make the characters interesting in order to make the story interesting. The challenge lies in not making a Sue, especially your first time writing.
 
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M-Dub

Μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω ᾿Αχιλῆος
In terms of writing journey fics, the best advice I can give is this: pick something that you usually see and turn that son of a Beedrill on its head. While I don't for a second advocate changing things up just for the sake of trying to be different, that is, in a way, exactly what I'm suggesting. Whoops. Er, what I mean is this. It often helps your OT fic to stick out from the crowd if it is noticeably different in at least one huge way right from the beginning. Invert something, subvert something. Trainer's on his way to see the professor on his tenth birthday? Bam, he falls into a pitfall trap set by Team Rocket and joins them instead, or goes on a rampaging quest for revenge. That sort of thing.

Of course, it's not just plot-wise that you can do this. To use my own fic as an example (because I know it better than I do any other), Champion Game is an OT fic. I wanted to write an OT fic, with battles and Gyms and things. But I didn't want to fall prey to that exact formula that so many OT fics do get trapped in. So I looked around for tips. One of the most common hints was 'start the story later. Skip the first Pokemon, first battle, first wild Pokemon capture, even the first Gym battle and get right into it.' I took that one step further and started after my Trainer becomes the Champion. The fic then deals with his struggles to come to terms with that responsibility and his battles with Elites and Champions from all over the Pokemon world, etc etc. (There's also a massive sword-and-sorcery fantasy thread running through it, but that's largely separate at the moment.)

That's something you can do too, actually. Blend genres. You want to write a journey fic, but you also want to do something that crosses Pokemon with magic and swords and explosions and dreams within dreams? Do both! Without going too heavy on the genre-sprinkling, of course. Much like a painting of an object can look much better when surrounded by a contrasting background, two very different genres can look really good when you blend them together. But if it's clumsily done, it's like picking clashing colours for your painting. Pink and green, ugh.

As for the reading of journeyfics, I don't really go for them any more than any other kind. I have genres I avoid (often for reasons unbeknownst even to me), like Pokemon-centric, Pokemorph and romance, but journey/OT is not one of them. While I am extraordinarily wary of journeyfics, I have nothing particularly against them. They just do seem more prone than other types of fics to falling prey to those tropes.

As for why all the tropes mentioned so far centre around the start of the journey, mightn't it perhaps be because we, as discerning readers, tend to stop after that point if a journeyfic exhibits those characteristics from the very beginning? I know that I certainly do, for the most part. I couldn't point you to any tropes used around later Gym battles, for example, simply because the good journey fics I read tend to have their own, successful ways of dealing with that sort of thing.

I should be writing. Mnn.
 

Legend of Lucario

Songwriter
Something that I took notice of last night, which I meant to post, and then passed out, was that I've never really read any journey fics about coordinators. Most journey fics are based around the "Go collect badges and face the Pokemon League." The main character might meet someone who does contests or whatever, but I've never read any coordinator specific fics.

Maybe something dark and dangerous happened that changed the world forever, but somehow, someone still feels it's important for trainers to carry on, and keep the tradition alive however they can. Maybe training Pokémon for protection and survival has become more important than before now...

Maybe this journey fic happens in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where most cities are only burnt husks of their former urban majesty, and instead, Pokémon leagues and battles take place in junkyard towns, all built by survivors from the remnants of what was found in the rubble. In a setting like that, there's more danger than what meets the eyes in the wasteland, such as pillagers, raiders, and those seeking to take advantage of shattered society. And maybe there's some other goal that the trainer also has to do, the reason why they're training Pokémon in the first place. Or maybe, these are the ways society is trying to build itself up again from the ashes of whatever disaster left the world to waste. I would love to check out a trainer fic that does that (I'm a Fallout, Book of Eli, Mad Max, and Borderlands junkie, so of course I would). That's thinking outside the box.

Or maybe it all happens in a darker, cyberpunk world where Pokémon training is contraband, but an underground organization is doing it in secret, and wants to create an uprising against the system, kind of like V for Vendetta. Battles are underground, gyms are in the abandoned subways and sewers, and the league is always operating in secret, always trying to protect itself from those that would seek to dismantle the entire thing. These are ordinary people during the day, but when the night is alive, the leagues go underground, and away from the authority's prying gaze. However, the league always has to be careful about who they decide to trust, and the threat of them being exposed is always there. The fledging trainer knows the risks they are about to take on, but they still want to do it. Maybe because this time, the purpose of training Pokémon now means so much more.

Well hello there, Mr. Creative! Those are very unique ways to do a journey fic. I actually really like those ideas (not that I'm saying I'm going to take them on, haha.)
 

Ysavvryl

Pokedex Researcher
Yeah, so journey-fics are cliche. I have one called ClicheStorm, so I should know. *giggles* But I won't dismiss them for that. It is a working format and they can be fun. Twisting things is a great idea, though. That way, it isn't quite the same thing as every other one.

I think the reason why so many journey-fic cliches are focused on the very start is that so many people start one, realize that it is a serious and long-term effort, and give up after posting a few chapters. The journey-fic looks easy at the start: you just follow the games or anime along, right? Yeah, well, there's this thing about having eight Gyms, plus a whole bunch of plot between them, plus whatever twists you add. ClicheStorm's outline currently has 50 chapters and I know that's not going to be enough!

So to anyone considering a journey fic, let me tell you: it will be a long story. It does take commitment. And it isn't as easy as it looks.

Maybe this journey fic happens in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where most cities are only burnt husks of their former urban majesty, and instead, Pokémon leagues and battles take place in junkyard towns, all built by survivors from the remnants of what was found in the rubble. In a setting like that, there's more danger than what meets the eyes in the wasteland, such as pillagers, raiders, and those seeking to take advantage of shattered society. And maybe there's some other goal that the trainer also has to do, the reason why they're training Pokémon in the first place. Or maybe, these are the ways society is trying to build itself up again from the ashes of whatever disaster left the world to waste. I would love to check out a trainer fic that does that (I'm a Fallout, Book of Eli, Mad Max, and Borderlands junkie, so of course I would). That's thinking outside the box.

While that does sound awesome, there's one pretty big flaw with this idea: journey-fics rely on a stable organization and/or a stable government. It's something that's not obvious but looking deeper, I feel that it must. When it comes to Pokemon fics, journey-fic usually means challenging the League and becoming Champion. Having a Pokemon League requires organization: who decides who gets to be Gym Leader or Elite? Who takes care of the Pokemon Gyms? Who decides the rules and deals with cheaters? Who supplies the participants with the items they need?

A Pokemon League would not work out in a lawless land. It might work out as a thug group replacing the League, but you'd have to make lots of changes to make this work out.

But it'd be possible if you get past that problem and make the whole thing plausible.
 

Avenger Angel

Warrior of Heaven
While that does sound awesome, there's one pretty big flaw with this idea: journey-fics rely on a stable organization and/or a stable government. It's something that's not obvious but looking deeper, I feel that it must. When it comes to Pokemon fics, journey-fic usually means challenging the League and becoming Champion. Having a Pokemon League requires organization: who decides who gets to be Gym Leader or Elite? Who takes care of the Pokemon Gyms? Who decides the rules and deals with cheaters? Who supplies the participants with the items they need?

A Pokemon League would not work out in a lawless land. It might work out as a thug group replacing the League, but you'd have to make lots of changes to make this work out.

But it'd be possible if you get past that problem and make the whole thing plausible.

I honestly think it could work though, but yeah, it definitely wouldn't be as formally organized as it was before whatever cataclysm left the world in ruins. A Champion is really just the strongest, seasoned veteran trainer in a league, and Gym Leaders are typically the toughest trainers within a certain geographical boundary, usually in one town. Maybe in the beginning, after the wake of such a disaster, former trainers got together and decided to reorganize the system. Sure, some of these titles might be self-proclaimed in the beginning, but in time, they become instilled as norm, and eventually everyone recognizes that person as having that role because they fit it the best. Not to mention that Gym Leaders typically stay in that one location and don't travel. Heck, even in the anime, Brock and Misty had to leave the responsibly of gym leader to someone else back in Pewter City and Cerulean City. The same kind of situation could apply in a post-apocalyptic world. You could still have John Doe, a gruff Gym Leader who uses ground type Pokémon, handle the Blackditch Gym, only the gym battle takes place on an airfield runway among the burnt out airplane hangars and airplane husks. And said gym badge may only be a particular beer brand bottle cap with his scratched initials on it.

Meanwhile, in a setting like this, there are other challenges. Healing items, for example, aren't going to be conveniently in a shop. Money and legal tender may be completely different as well. Trainers may need to barter some of their personal belongings to get the things they need. Or they'll need to venture out in the wild and search for herbs and other materials to make their own makeshift medicines that may not work as well as your typical Super Potions, Revives, and so on. Not to mention trainers will definitely need outstanding survival skills.

As for the gyms themselves, none of them would be in top condition anyway, and wouldn't receive much in the ways of maintenance. Not to mention it would be unlikely league battles would be taking place in a formal gym setting where boundary lines are clearly defined and so on. One gym might be on an old freight ship, or another may be in an old warehouse. Plenty of them may be just conducted outside in an arena surrounded by walls made of rubble, destroyed cars, metal sheets, and other similar materials. All that's really needed is a large enough setting to host a Pokémon battle, which plenty of places can fill that role (not to mention it would be interesting for the readers to see what each town uses as a gym). As with most post-apocalyptic settings, people tend to have to improvise solutions, as the original structures, tools, and remedies may be gone, causing people to have to reconstruct things and devise makeshift solutions to solve problems. But it could be done.

As for the law, in most apocalyptic settings, there is some form of law, but not everyone recognizes it. Meanwhile, the law becomes more open to vigilantism, as somewhat like a wild west scenario. Or, laws may only exist in one particular town, but when someone steps outside, they'd better have their wits about them.

So yeah, I still think it could work pretty well, but would definitely require the author to think outside the box. Yes, I know a lot would be different, but when it comes to originality and trainer fics... that's pretty much the point that's needed to make them interesting.
 

Laevateinn

Ghost-Type Trainer
I honestly think it could work though, but yeah, it definitely wouldn't be as formally organized as it was before whatever cataclysm left the world in ruins. A Champion is really just the strongest, seasoned veteran trainer in a league, and Gym Leaders are typically the toughest trainers within a certain geographical boundary, usually in one town. Maybe in the beginning, after the wake of such a disaster, former trainers got together and decided to reorganize the system. Sure, some of these titles might be self-proclaimed in the beginning, but in time, they become instilled as norm, and eventually everyone recognizes that person as having that role because they fit it the best. Not to mention that Gym Leaders typically stay in that one location and don't travel. Heck, even in the anime, Brock and Misty had to leave the responsibly of gym leader to someone else back in Pewter City and Cerulean City. The same kind of situation could apply in a post-apocalyptic world. You could still have John Doe, a gruff Gym Leader who uses ground type Pokémon, handle the Blackditch Gym, only the gym battle takes place on an airfield runway among the burnt out airplane hangars and airplane husks. And said gym badge may only be a particular beer brand bottle cap with his scratched initials on it.

Meanwhile, in a setting like this, there are other challenges. Healing items, for example, aren't going to be conveniently in a shop. Money and legal tender may be completely different as well. Trainers may need to barter some of their personal belongings to get the things they need. Or they'll need to venture out in the wild and search for herbs and other materials to make their own makeshift medicines that may not work as well as your typical Super Potions, Revives, and so on. Not to mention trainers will definitely need outstanding survival skills.

As for the gyms themselves, none of them would be in top condition anyway, and wouldn't receive much in the ways of maintenance. Not to mention it would be unlikely league battles would be taking place in a formal gym setting where boundary lines are clearly defined and so on. One gym might be on an old freight ship, or another may be in an old warehouse. Plenty of them may be just conducted outside in an arena surrounded by walls made of rubble, destroyed cars, metal sheets, and other similar materials. All that's really needed is a large enough setting to host a Pokémon battle, which plenty of places can fill that role (not to mention it would be interesting for the readers to see what each town uses as a gym). As with most post-apocalyptic settings, people tend to have to improvise solutions, as the original structures, tools, and remedies may be gone, causing people to have to reconstruct things and devise makeshift solutions to solve problems. But it could be done.

As for the law, in most apocalyptic settings, there is some form of law, but not everyone recognizes it. Meanwhile, the law becomes more open to vigilantism, as somewhat like a wild west scenario. Or, laws may only exist in one particular town, but when someone steps outside, they'd better have their wits about them.

So yeah, I still think it could work pretty well, but would definitely require the author to think outside the box. Yes, I know a lot would be different, but when it comes to originality and trainer fics... that's pretty much the point that's needed to make them interesting.

This is a very interesting interpretation that, I do agree, would need a lot of thought and planning. But I can cleary see what you're interpeting, it's ture, you ahve to think out of the box when it comes to doing a 'theme' for a Journy fic. For example, for a change of setting: Why not something like a space station being a region, just for example. Scientists wish to try and see if they can create an entire region in space and see what different and new kinds of methods they can find and apply to regions on Earth, a guniea pig, you could say. Here are a few pros and cons I can see about this:

1. Wild Pokemon - No grass. No Wild Pokemon. Perhaps certain routes could be bio-domes, with Pokemon bred intentionally for trainers, another new idea is that perhaps you have a limit on how many you can catch at a certain time.

2. Age limit - There is no way that a little 10-Year old would be sent to live on a space station. Ages would more likekly to be 18 (for a change of character development via maturity) with a few years training to handle space, meaning that they'll be around about 20-21 by the time they're sent up. The only exception to this is if a child is born on the space station.

3. Dangers from the outside. Such as meteor showers and certain kinds of gases, heck, that could even be a plot device now that I think about it. Scientists try the experiment for a few years and eventually claim it to be indestructable.

4. New gym tricks. Some gyms might decide to ramp the challenge up a little bit by turning off the gravity in the gym(!). Moves like Earthquake would no longer be useful (e.g: Fire-Type Gym + Gravity Switch = Bye-Bye Ground-Type moves)

But I digress, there are many more things I could talk about concerning 'out of the box' journey fics, including the commitment you have to have to write one. When it does work and I do find a journey fic that succeeds at keeping away from cliches, it becomes a real joy to read.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
I have not really gone around to try and reading journey-fics, they've just never appealed to me. I may have read a few (unless it was just Saber's journey-fic from looooong ago), and they were very interesting. But that was about it. It inspired me to want to write one of my own, but I never got far with it even though I still cherish the original characters I made for it.

Every now and then, though, the thought would always come to me, wondering if maybe I could try my hand at a journey or OT-fic. Of course, it would take place in the same boring place known as Kanto or Johto, but I would have tried to add a more of a realistic time setting for it, like how long it would take to travel to-and-from cities, and just how big the cities were. This would mean I'd consult Bulbapedia and the anime for a more accurate portrayal (since I'm more for the anime universe than I am the games, though I do try to incorporate a mixture of the two).

But still, it's the clichés I'm more worried about. I may or may not know every single cliché, but I do want to try to be more original about it. There is still originality out there, I just worry I do not have the ability to find it. And even IF I do have originality, it's just trying to keep it within that originality the whole time that worries me, especially if I have a hyperactive character which, I have to admit, is inevitable for me. I HAVE to have a character who is a little wacky at times, it's just the way I am.

Anyway, I think I went a little over my head there, I don't think I even made my point. So I'll just say I don't have a problem with it, but chances are likely I may not read it because it doesn't appeal to me at the moment.
 

JX Valentine

Ever-Discordant
As for why all the tropes mentioned so far centre around the start of the journey, mightn't it perhaps be because we, as discerning readers, tend to stop after that point if a journeyfic exhibits those characteristics from the very beginning?

While this is certainly true, the point is that there are more tropes and traps that a writer can fall into besides the ones at the beginning. Just because you manage to have an original first chapter doesn't necessarily mean that you've taken a fresh look at things from that point onward. For example, when reading a journey fic set in Kanto, one of the things I like to do is skip to the chapter with Bill in it. Even if the first chapter checks out (trainer got a starter that wasn't Pikachu/Eevee/author's favorite/traditional, trainer woke up on time, writer didn't bother with the whole "breakfast -> leave the house -> walk to the professor's lab" process, character is actually well-developed and likable), if I see that they've turned Bill into a Pokémon or trapped him in a costume just so the main character can help him change back/get out, I stop reading. It's not because I'm biased. It's because that's a certain sign to me that eventually, they stop bothering to come up with original plot points and have started to rely on copying the games and anime.

Then, there's other factors too. If your standard evil team members behave like the TRio, I stop reading. If your standard evil team members are ~*~darker and edgier~*~ but are still after taking over the world/destroying the world/awakening legendaries for no discernible reason, I stop reading. If your standard evil team is a cult, I stop reading unless said cult is well-developed and have coherent philosophies besides "lol let's awaken Gozer." That's because these are all clichés in their own right, and they're massively important to the plot. So as soon as I see them, I know exactly what's going to happen in the story anyway. (It's probably best to see my thoughts on villains if you're wondering what I don't turn away from.)

And then, you've got the traveling companions. If the companion is of the opposite sex and acts like a tsundere, I hit the back button because it looks like you're setting up the Ash-Misty dynamic. If your character is basically a carbon copy of Ash's other companions, you can bet your britches I'm hitting the backspace key like it's my job. If your characters are competent and compelling on their own, then I stay because you get what characterization is.

And the first battles. If your character wins, I get a little uncomfortable but proceed. If your character wins most battles after that, I hit that back button. It's not because I think your character is a Mary Sue. It's because I think every battle is going to be predictable because I can tell you've stacked all the odds in your character's favor. I stop caring about the battle itself, even if it's extremely detailed and has characters pulling crazy-awesome stuff, because I know that unless it's a plot point that the character loses, what happens in that battle doesn't matter. They'll win, regardless of whether or not it's by deus ex machina.

Same couple of things apply to gym battles. The gym leader has to have some semblance of characterization; they can't just exist as badge dispensers. Moreover, the battle needs to be exciting in that the outcome needs to be questionable. Ash may have won all his badges eventually, but it wasn't unusual for him to lose the first time around -- or, in the case of the first season, not earn his badge through battling at all. (Hi, "Pokémon Scent-sation." Can we talk about how awesome you were as an episode?)

To continue on the subject of gym battles and clichés, quite often, a gym chapter consists of this: the gym battle. And that's about it. It starts with the character waltzing into the gym and ends with the character waltzing out with badge, and in between is basically nothing but the gym battle. There's usually no character development for the gym leader during this chapter (and if there is any at all for them, it's outside of that chapter), and there's usually no effort to note gym puzzles or other trainers in said facility besides the gym leader. (As in, it's not that difficult to find the resident badge dispenser.) And this is quite odd and awkward for fic based on the games, but it's just as awkward for fics based on the anime, where even Ash might have had to jump through hoops to find the gym leader in their own gym. (Most first-season gyms were like this, if I recall, and in later seasons, you had gyms like Mauville City and Nacrene City.)

Then, let's talk about the Pokémon team. If they're basically ignored until a battle comes up, I hit the back button because congratulations on missing the point of a trainer fic. If they're treated like animals, I stay because yay for sharing headcanon. If they basically are carbon copies of Ash's team one way or another (examples: a Pokémon that refuses to obey and is subsequently violent towards the trainer for comedic effect, a Pokémon that has a crush on its trainer, one that was abused and abandoned because it's weak so it has an inferiority complex, and so forth), I hit the back button because I don't find those characters compelling. Even "funny" characters like a sarcastic (insert something here) and a clueless (insert something else here) interacting a lot doesn't hold my attention for that long because I've seen it countless times already.

And I could keep on going, but I guess the point is that there's definitely more that could be predictable in a fanfiction than just the beginning, and a lot of these things are elements a lot of people don't realize are clichés. It's definitely worth talking about what clichés are besides just the ones in the beginning because a fic could have an original beginning but an unoriginal everything else. The reason why is because it's entirely possible to have a writer who's conscious of the standard list of clichés, but because that list only seems to cover the beginning, they won't be aware of what else could be lurking after the first chapter. Hence, they'll go out of their way to create an awesome beginning... but fail pretty hard later on in the fic.

And even then, there's usually very little discussion as to why the clichés at the beginning are bad (or why they're bad at all). Quite frequently, discussions like this just say "you've got to be original" but don't really go into why. They don't really detail that, yes, it's extremely bad if your reader can basically predict everything that happens from the beginning on out or feel as if they could, and they certainly don't mention that the reason why it's extremely bad for a reader to do that is because the fic stops being exciting for them. It's not really mentioned that a lot of clichés tend to ignore logic, like how difficult it might be to train a Pokémon that doesn't want to obey you at first and that the reason Ash could was because he nearly risked his life to earn Pikachu's respect. Not to mention it's never brought up what kinds of implications encountering a legendary at the start of the fic have on a character (if that even makes sense) or why a character needs to have a good reason for traveling besides "I'm of age so why not." Heck, most people don't even really touch upon why having a character hit up a professor's lab for their starter isn't always a good idea (besides "every other fanfic does it").

I guess what I mean to say is that it's okay to say "clichés are bad, kids," but if you're going to say that in a thread like this, you might as well discuss... well, clichés. And you can't stop at just the beginning because that only covers the tip of the iceberg and (inadvertently) teaches writers that clichés for journey fics only exist in the beginning.

Or in even shorter, yes, good, successful fics generally avoid clichés later on in their storylines, but just because a story has missed every cliché normally present in the beginning doesn't necessarily mean it's a good, successful fic.



While I'm here, I'd also like to object to one other point in this thread.

A Pokémon league doesn't necessarily have to be supported by a government. It could according to your headcanon, but ultimately, it's a sports league, not a government organization. (If you're not looking at Special, anyway.) While you'd still need some semblance of organization for the exact reason you mentioned, Ysavvryl (i.e., the fact that someone has to decide who're the gym leaders and whatnot), that can be formed independently from the legislative structure of society. So, you could theoretically have a Pokémon league or something resembling it in a lawless region; it's just that the rules might be a bit different based on what the people organizing it think would be important to have in place. In fact, we have one example of such in canon: Pokémon Colosseum.
 
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Diddy

Renegade
I had to laugh at the Ghostbusters 2 reference, Jax. xD

The only real feelings I have towards journey fics are, should I devote my time and energy to reading it? Most of them *shifty eyes* don't even get finished, so why bother?

It could be the best thing ever but what's the point if I don't get to read it all?

So I can pull out my hipster glasses and say I read it before it became cool?

Jeff Goldblum said it best in Jurassic Park.
 
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Laevateinn

Ghost-Type Trainer
While this is certainly true, the point is that there are more tropes and traps that a writer can fall into besides the ones at the beginning. Just because you manage to have an original first chapter doesn't necessarily mean that you've taken a fresh look at things from that point onward. For example, when reading a journey fic set in Kanto, one of the things I like to do is skip to the chapter with Bill in it. Even if the first chapter checks out (trainer got a starter that wasn't Pikachu/Eevee/author's favorite/traditional, trainer woke up on time, writer didn't bother with the whole "breakfast -> leave the house -> walk to the professor's lab" process, character is actually well-developed and likable), if I see that they've turned Bill into a Pokémon or trapped him in a costume just so the main character can help him change back/get out, I stop reading. It's not because I'm biased. It's because that's a certain sign to me that eventually, they stop bothering to come up with original plot points and have started to rely on copying the games and anime.

I understand this entirely, as soon as I see things which look a little too much like anime/games then it usually puts me off. If the writer has done it in a way which is clever and throws my expetation off on multiple occasions where key parts of the original fall into place, then it usually ends up as a good work of fiction.

Then, there's other factors too. If your standard evil team members behave like the TRio, I stop reading. If your standard evil team members are ~*~darker and edgier~*~ but are still after taking over the world/destroying the world/awakening legendaries for no discernible reason, I stop reading. If your standard evil team is a cult, I stop reading unless said cult is well-developed and have coherent philosophies besides "lol let's awaken Gozer." That's because these are all clichés in their own right, and they're massively important to the plot. So as soon as I see them, I know exactly what's going to happen in the story anyway. (It's probably best to see my thoughts on villains if you're wondering what I don't turn away from.)

Again, 100% agreement here. The evil teams often lack any motive except world domination. This is why I liked N in Pokemon Black/White, sure he wanted to separate pokemon, but he believed it was the right thing to do, and it was the only thing he had ever been taught by Ghetsis and lived around, which is often what happens in real life in some cases.

And then, you've got the traveling companions. If the companion is of the opposite sex and acts like a tsundere, I hit the back button because it looks like you're setting up the Ash-Misty dynamic. If your character is basically a carbon copy of Ash's other companions, you can bet your britches I'm hitting the backspace key like it's my job. If your characters are competent and compelling on their own, then I stay because you get what characterization is.

Ah, my old nemesis, Carbon-Copy Companions, how I hate you so. I don't blame you at all for hitting he back button when you come across flaws such as the companion. However there is another side to it, if your main character has no companion other than his/her pokemon, it can be a challenge to keep readers interested. More often than not, if people do this, they usually have a pokemon like Eevee or some other sickly-cute pokemon that is as brain-dead as Ash's Pikachu. That's when I hit the back button.

And the first battles. If your character wins, I get a little uncomfortable but proceed. If your character wins most battles after that, I hit that back button. It's not because I think your character is a Mary Sue. It's because I think every battle is going to be predictable because I can tell you've stacked all the odds in your character's favor.

I used to do this so much in my younger years, and now that I look back on it, I want to kick myself. Favor is another big issue for me, what I sometimes do is start a new Pokemon game, but instead of using the starter Pokemon, I use a Pokemon that nobody would be mad enough to use (and trust me, it's difficult playing through B/W with a Yamask when everything knows either Pursuit, Bite or Thief... >.<) and see if it would make the odds a little more even if it were the protagonist's first pokemon.

Same couple of things apply to gym battles. The gym leader has to have some semblance of characterization; they can't just exist as badge dispensers. Moreover, the battle needs to be exciting in that the outcome needs to be questionable. Ash may have won all his badges eventually, but it wasn't unusual for him to lose the first time around -- or, in the case of the first season, not earn his badge through battling at all. (Hi, "Pokémon Scent-sation." Can we talk about how awesome you were as an episode?)

Yes, let us talk about your awesomeness, "Pokemon Scent-sation". The reason why I loved that episode was because of how original it actually was compared to other episodes. On one hand, yes, Ash didn't even get the chance to battle Erika and still got the badge, but on the other hand this is justified because he managed to rescue Gloom and put himself in extreme danger for the good of another. Then we have my other favourite atempt to get a badge - the Marshbadge. Ash and his friends literally suffered to get what they were after, and it was a great episode because it also showed the tormented psyche of a gym leader that I'd never seen before. Sabrina suddenly became a great character and did not remain a mindless badge drone that most stories have.

So, you could theoretically have a Pokémon league or something resembling it in a lawless region; it's just that the rules might be a bit different based on what the people organizing it think would be important to have in place. In fact, we have one example of such in canon: Pokémon Colosseum.

This is why Pokemon Colosseum was one of my favourite games, partially to due with the different context of a "Pokemon League" in the game, but also for its more gritty and unwelcome setting where there is little to no system in place.
 

MHugs

Swadloon cuddle~
I've got issues with OC fics, period, so I don't really read anything that centers on one. Why do I have these issues? Maybe it comes from experience reading miserably writtern, possibly self-insert OCs (gag) flatter than a coordinate plane. Maybe I'm closed-minded.

Journey fics, though, I don't have much for or against. They tend to dip into the same old tropes over and over, and I've never seen much originality of any kind in one. On the other hand, there's nothing about that formula that particularly grates my nerves, so I can imagine liking a well-written journey fics with OCs that are not awful.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
Honestly, I haven't read many journey fics that get past the first couple chapters, so it's hard to judge. Regardless, it can seep unoriginality from the beginning to the end, but a fresh beginning definitely helps get on the right track.

Even so, there often are readers for trainer fics with even the cut-and-paste starts. Despite the complains we've had in past discussions about trainer fics, there is generally still an audience for them no matter where you go. People loved going on their own journeys in the games, and when writers flesh out that journey in writing to make it feel like a real place beyond pixels, well, I'd suppose that's just an enticing thing.

On that note, I would like to express my own disinterest for the fad of original regions/Pokemon that comes and goes every so often. Few writers are able to formulate an original region, a whole new 'Dex of monsters, and an enticing storyline and characters all at the same time, while, again, keeping it going for more than a few chapters. More often than not they're just about showing off some monsters that vaguely look like Pokemon, and that's about it. Dragonfree's fic does a fine job because it isn't just look at these cool new Pokemon I made, it's also look at this quest and these characters and these legendaries and this plot.

As with any story, you need to give each aspect of it equal attention. If one thing is original and another is unoriginal/we've seen it a dozen times before, then you're not setting up something the majority of readers will enjoy, especially if they've seen it all before.


I've got issues with OC fics, period, so I don't really read anything that centers on one. Why do I have these issues? Maybe it comes from experience reading miserably writtern, possibly self-insert OCs (gag) flatter than a coordinate plane. Maybe I'm closed-minded.
To be fair, there are plenty of fics centered around canon characters that are terribly dull, have the characters acting out of character, or that ship canon characters with self-inserts (even if in the guise of a canon character). My point is really that whether characters are from canon or original, you can still find crappy writing. Alternatively, there are great fics that explore the depths of canon characters, as well as fics featuring wonderfully fresh original characters which may also explore another aspect of the Pokemon world. As with any genre, you can find the good, the bad and the ugly anywhere. Don't judge a book by its cover.

~Psychic
 
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