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Feminism & Rape Culture 2014: My Post is Up Here Guys

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Peter Quill, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. Peter Quill

    Peter Quill star-lord

    (Trigger Warning: This thread will be dealing with discussions of sexual assault.)

    Please take discretion while perusing in this topic. The OP has been put under a spoiler to be respectful.

    Feminism as a social movement is defined by Dictionary.com as the following: "The doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men." Feminism is a concept that has been seen all around the world and in some instances dates back to antiquity. However, despite how wide spread the movement is, it remains a very divisive and controversial issue as we continue along into the 21st century.

    The equality of women is currently seen as a problem in both the public and the private spheres. An example of the former is an example of "slut shaming", which refers to shaming a woman for the specifics of how she dresses. An example of such is "She's wearing a miniskirt so obviously she wants guys to stare at her as she walks down the street". A documented example in the private sphere is the phenomenon known as the "Glass Ceiling", a political term which is known as the "unseen yet unbreakable barrier that keeps minorities and women from rising to the upper rungs of the corporate ladder, regardless of their qualifications or achievements." [source]

    The main goal of feminists is, as following with the definition above, is to make both men and women equal. Contrary to the misconception, the main point of feminism is not to advocate a sort of "female supremacy". The goal is not to remove men's rights, or to make them inferior, as that would go against the point of making women equal in the first place. This means that a feminist is against the glass ceiling and also against slut shaming as a practice.

    The other thing that feminists actively oppose is something known as "rape culture". Rape culture defined is a systemic attitude that tries to normalize and condone rape in our society. Slut shaming and rape culture have been found to intertwine, saying that women who wear certain kinds of clothing are "asking" to get raped. Another common excuse surrounds the mentality that "boys will be boys" and can't control their sexual drives around women. Obviously rape culture turns into an issue that effects both men and women, both in stereotypes and the fact that most men know at least one woman who is important to them.

    There are obviously many other excuses that can be given for rape culture and other aspects that feminists try to fight in the day-to-day fight. This thread is for discussion on the success of feminism, how to improve upon it, opinions on feminism, and how to solve the issue of rape culture in our society today.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
    Steampunk, Psychic and ellie like this.
  2. Psychic

    Psychic Really and truly

    I know a number of women who've been treated in certain ways solely on the basis of their gender, from workplace discrimination to harassment to rape. Chances are just about everyone knows who have experienced this, and if you think no woman in your life has been affected by sexism, then they probably just haven't shared their experiences with you for whatever reason. If you don't think this is an issue, all you have to do is a Google search and you'll find hundreds of hashtags, articles, and even entire websites dedicated to women's stories. If you're willing to listen, then what you find can be very eye-opening.

    I'm a feminist because it's 2013, and half the population shouldn't have to deal with this BS. While I personally focus on women's issues, a lot of people forget that sexism is a double-edged sword - sexism hurts men just as it hurts women due to gendered stereotypes, expectations, and biases. Feminism accepts this. As a feminist, I believe it's wrong to automatically give mothers child custody over fathers, or to expect men to treat women like precious flowers who must be protected at the cost of their own well-being. However, we have to examine where these ideas come from and recognize that they are all a result of the same sexist notions, and that they don't actually benefit anybody. It's all based off assumptions that are simply sexist, and if an idea is sexist, we must recognize that we should do away with it. The sooner we do so the greater the benefit for everyone.

    To elaborate a bit more about rape culture, what a lot of people don't realize is just how pervasive it is. A culture of invading people's spaces without their permission and doing things without their consent doesn't come out of nowhere. Unfortunately, in North American culture, harassment is almost normalized. Women get catcalled and harassed in public and private (including minors and women who do not dress "provocatively"). Women are constantly objectified and viewed solely as objects used for sex (their own sexual desires and preferences being ignored), being inappropriately propositioned and even harassed (such as online). Those who speak up or complain are told they are "overreacting" and should "just get over it," which only normalizes harassment.

    Women are also told that dressing a certain way or having a certain kind of sex life means they will be treated as lesser, as having less rights, as deserving less respect. (Men, however, do not face this issue, making it a double-standard, and as I said, we must do away with double-standards!) Now, if one person doesn't need to be treated with the same respect as another, it becomes more acceptable to do awful things to them. People claim some women don't deserve to be respected or treated like anyone else because of the way they dress or their sex lives, because "sluts should be treated like trash." It means that some people are "asking for it," and it absolves the perpetrator of guilt. It means you can get away with hurting someone if you do it to the "right person."

    Let's remember that when a crime is committed, the only guilty person is the one who committed the crime. If I pick a victim and choose to assault them, I am the one who made the decision and I am responsible for making that decision and doing the action. I can choose anyone to be my victim. Nobody has a flashing light on their head saying them want to be attacked, yet we as a society have a serious problem of focusing on the victim. Instead, we should be talking about the responsibility of and the decision made by the perpetrator. Sexual assault is the only crime for which we do this.

    I'd also like to mention consent and define it properly. "Consent" means that if you want to do something with someone, you can only do it if they say "yes!" A "yes!" cannot be given if "no" is not an option, such as a student feeling they cannot say "no" to a teacher's come-ons for the fear of being given a failing grade. Just because there isn't a "no" doesn't mean consent was given, either. Unfortunately, a lot of young people (of all genders) are not taught this, and as a result many adults simply do not understand what constitutes consensual sexual activity versus rape (evidence: the many Republicans who talk about "legitimate rape" or "forcible rape").

    Asking for consent means respecting that person and their choices, and also being open to receiving a "no." Avoiding asking for consent can be a symptom of a fear of rejection, or just not respecting that person and what they want, and that's not cool. Unfortunately, a lot of people avoid or don't even think to ask for consent, which contributes to the problem.

    I could go on, but this is the gist of the issues of slut-shaming and rape and some of the reasons they're such an issue. The basic tl;dr is treat men and women equally, understand the definition of rape and consent, and know the difference between being a perpetrator and being a victim.

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
    ellie likes this.
  3. Steampunk

    Steampunk One Truth Prevails

    Ok, I have not had as much experience in feminism as the other posters here have, but I will state my opinion anyways.

    While making remarks like this ARE wrong, the problem is that they are not completely unfounded. Yes some women will wear a miniskirt to get the attention of men, and so when someone would encounter a situation like that, then they will generalize the entire population of women who do this.

    So What I am saying is, women like that have depreciated from your own movement, and to you will need people to get past that if you ever want them to be on your side.

    Not saying I agree with this, but you must wonder if there is a similar situation to the one I mentioned before, "If a women fulfilled the (incorrect)stereotype, then others may have a reason for their thinking." IF so, then we have to find the cause of the stereotype and be rid of it.

    Now this....I do think that what a women wearing certian clothing are more likely to be raped in certain areas of the country. I am not saying that the guilt of the crime is on the women, but her clothing may have been why the rapist chose her over some other women. Either way a women was getting raped, your clothing may have an effect on whether or not it was YOU who got raped. But once again, the guilt is not on the women.

    I cannot emphasize how much I agree with this. I know personally.....My aunt is a B****, she steals my Uncle's meds, she doesnt feed him when he's bedridden, she doesnt feed their child when he's bedridden, and so on. Yet the judge gave custody to her recently, I don't think she'll have my cousin very long because a child abuse report is very likely in her future, but still, the judge ave her custody because she was the mother.

    One thing we must realize is that this stereotype came about because of the actions of men AND women. Some women WANT that, and we just need to realise that not all women WANT that. People just need to get that through their think sculls.

    Not sure if you are alluding to prostitution here or not.

    No. But one women may have it when compared to another. As I was saying earlier, you may have more control over WHICH women gets raped. A women is going to get raped either way, and that is not on the women, its on the rapist, but come on, men are more attracted to provacativness most of the time. Will the rapist go after the women who is wearing modest clothing, or the one who is already half nude?

    Like I said, just my opinions.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  4. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    I think the only remotely negative opinion I have about feminism is that it needs to call out the (honestly very few but fairly loud) people who call themselves feminists but just hate men -- because that harms the movement if all people hear about it are some people on Tumblr who think all men are shit. Of course, all movements need to shake off their extremists, but for this one it is even more important.

    Or, more generally, people need to realize that feminism is not sexism against men and need to stop using it as such -- whether to describe their opinions or to argue against feminism.

    Before anyone says it, no, there is not a systemic sexism against men in existence, but there are and have historically been a few select people who have held sexist beliefs against men.

    They do that because they're stupid. That generalization is completely unfounded.

    And no, it doesn't hurt the movement that someone acts to get the attention of men. What hurts the movement are stupid people who suddenly decide that one person doing that means all women are like that.

    Questionable. Many instances of rape are about power, not sex.

    You're still pinning it on her choices. How exactly do you perform the logical gymnastics that let you do that while still believing you don't consider it the woman's fault.

    I don't believe your argument to be true, but I agree that it's a stupid thought arrived at by stupid people.

    Could be anything. It doesn't matter.

    I've gone over this already.
  5. Steampunk

    Steampunk One Truth Prevails

    Yeah, you're right.

    True. It can go either way.

    Ok, I wasn't insinuating that a woman who was scantily dressed would turn your average run-of-the-mill guy into a rapist. But when a rapist leaves to find a woman to rape, he usually has something in mind, and in my experience, it seems to be women who are scantily dressed. Now think about this, if a rapist sits and waits for a woman to pass who is scantily dressed and lets several modestly dressed women pass by because they are not what he is looking for, then did the women who dressed modestly show good sense?

    This is an argument that I know not all people will agree with, but i would like to state again for emphasis, that it is not the woman's fault that she was raped, because if a rapist is bent of rape, you cannot stop him, but if he is specifically looking for a woman who is dressed a certain way.......Idk, this requires more discussion.
  6. Super Nerd 7997

    Super Nerd 7997 Crazy Plant Guy

    Just thought I'd point out that, as you said, it's a double-edged sword and cuts both ways. The difference being that feminism has very publicly made sexism directed at women known, whereas sexism directed at men goes unchallenged and is often ignored or applauded in modern society. Women are chastised for expressing their sexuality, but on the other hand, men are often called losers or homosexuals for not doing so.

    As far as "rape culture" goes, I don't see rape itself directly advocated or called normal. It is still frowned upon, and, in fact, is more harshly punished due to feminism. What I do see in western culture is an attitude that boys and men are mindless, sex crazed animals, and women are helpless victims who should be scared to death and constantly calling the folks in blue on anyone they deem "creepy" because men are all basically rapists, dont'cha know? And in a world with a startling lack of upstanding male role models, young boys hitting puberty start internalizing society's view of men into their heads; they start thinking that maybe sex is all there is to life. Except girls are chastised for willingly having it, and by and large instinctually practice hypergamy. So you have a lot of young men under tremendous pressure to get something they can't get by asking nicely. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to tell you where that leads.

    This is, of course, blatantly wrong for them to do, but post-modernism and multiculturalism have done a pretty good job of doing away with the concept of a moral code, because, after all, we wouldn't want to offend people...

    Again, it cuts both ways.

    Disclaimer: I am not at all a feminist; in fact, I blame feminism, particularly the blatantly man-hating kind, for a lot of issues in today's society. I'm not saying it hasn't done some good, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all. I do not wish to start a flamewar here, merely state the truth as I see it and try to shed some light on things from a different perspective. I come from a more traditional western background than most here probably do.

    As for the issue of women dressing a certain way, I can't say I've had a lot of experience in areas where this would come up (bars, etc.), but it seems to me to be a miscommunication on some level. Women do sometimes dress a certain way to get attention from men (usually they have a certain kind of guy in mind, and if you're not that kind of guy, well, you're considered a creep for noticing). The trouble is, women see this as getting attention, and guys tend to see it as advertising. This is probably where the "she was asking for it" line comes from. Again, I'm not saying rape is justified (far from it), I'm merely trying to illuminate both sides here.

    I do believe someone made a comment about the "legitimate rape" line that one politician said. I believe that was likely a mistake in phrasing that the left ran off with. But it does raise a good point; I think there is a definite need to differentiate between actual coerced sex and the whole gamut of things that have been called "rape" at one time or another by the crazed moonbat man-haters. These are people who have claimed that merely checking a woman out is raping her, as well as the process of giving birth in a hospital is somehow "raping" the mother. But then, these people have also claimed that logic and reason are tools of oppression.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  7. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    You know, I don't think that it's really a matter of you being malicious about this so much as just not being perfectly informed of how saying that a woman dressed in a provocative manner being more likely to be raped is a matter of blaming the victim. I think the argument is nonsense because, as stated many instances of rape are about power and not sex, even ahead of whether or not it's blaming the victim.

    So, I guess arguing it may not get us anywhere.
  8. The Federation

    The Federation Why Not?

    The only problems I have with feminism are the tendency of the belief to lend itself to radicals and party pleasers and a belief in The Patriarchy, which absolutely does not exist in our society.

    Other than that, the fundamental tenets of the system are beneficial and sound. I generally accept feminism, without taking into account the factors above.
  9. Nightmareisalive

    Nightmareisalive Well-Known Member

    Well feminism as a whole has done a lot of good especially when it comes to raising the issue about rape though I would never call myself a feminist due to the number that are man hating or the scary large number that don't seem to realize their movement must also take in issues that effect men to actually be about true equally.

    Rape as far as I know is not tolerated where I live. Anyone who rapes can expect their life to be made into a living hell and I don't think I have ever heard anyone talk nicely about rape. One thing about rape culture that often never gets spoken about is false rape where someone (mostly a woman) accesses someone of raping them. I have heard more and more stories about it and it's scary how some women will use something as horrible as rape to try and get back against a man who has either hurt her or in her head wronged her in someway. It's a horrible thing to due especially since the news usually report about the rape the man's face gets shown all over and their life turned to hell until they can prove they are innocent and even after that they can still expect to face problems or that fact the woman who accessed them of rape does not get punished at all. That is a very dangerous problem since it can cause people not to take people who say they were raped seriously undermining real rape cases and is more insult to those who were raped that other people can lie about it so easily.
  10. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    It's not so much that there are a lot of people who are anti-men* as the fact that the radicals are extremely good at being a vocal minority. This is the case of all extremists, of course.

    *"anti-men" because who even takes the term "misandry" and its derivatives seriously anymore

    Must be regional. Often, while yes, rape is not directly promoted, people are often very willing to, as it were, "look away."

    I know someone has the statistics about this, but this is pretty rare, last I checked.
    ellie likes this.
  11. Super Nerd 7997

    Super Nerd 7997 Crazy Plant Guy

    Oh, yes, absolutely. I had meant to comment on that as well, but I didn't want to get off track in my comments. Absolutely disgusting that someone would abuse the legal system that way.

    Misandry absolutely exists in mainstream culture. It's just so prevalent in a thinly-veiled form that most people take it for granted. I find your tone here a bit insulting, to be honest.

    The trouble with the "vocal minority" argument is no one has any numbers to back it up. In addition, there's a deafening silence from the more "moderate" feminists whenever the crazies speak up.

    I've heard figures all over the place, ranging from 0.001% to almost half of all cases. It's not something you can easily find the real data on because false claims might be assumed true by the court system, and vice-versa. That it can happen easily, and the way the accused are considered guilty until proven innocent should be concerning enough for anyone.
  12. Psychic

    Psychic Really and truly

    This is called "stereotyping," and it's part of the problem. If you think one person in X group doing Y means all people in X group do Y, then you are making generalizations and assumptions. People use this as a justification for discriminating against entire groups, like "I hate all black people because one black person did Y." That is called racism. Sexism works precisely the same way.

    Also, just because a woman dresses a certain way for attention does not mean she wants to be treated like crap. There is zero correlation here, and there is no justification for harassing someone. A lot of people think catcalls are an appropriate way to "compliment" someone, but they don't realize that it can often come across as dehumanizing or even threatening. Just because I meant well when I yelled "you have a nice butt!" does not mean the person is going to take it well.

    No. When an aggressor picks a victim, they are going to choose someone who looks vulnerable. This is the way most people function when selecting a victim - you look for whoever is most vulnerable, and vulnerability has nothing to do with what clothing you wear.

    No, I literally mean that some people decide how they treat others based off whether or not they approve of that person's sex life. Everyone has different sexual preferences, and that's fine, but some people will judge others if their sexual preferences don't match up with their own. Some people can't abide by sex before marriage, others resent anyone who's had more than X number of sexual partners, and yes, others still automatically hate anyone working in the sex industry. I was being vague on purpose.

    Some men might be more likely to engage (such as flirt) with a woman who dresses a certain way, but the idea that a rapist only rapes women who dress a certain way is ridiculous. Women is niqabs are raped, despite covering every inch of skin, for instance.

    The point is that if a woman in certain clothing is raped, we say "she was a slut, she had it coming. She could have avoided it by not being such a slut." This is what I mean about treating a woman as "lesser" because she dresses a certain way or has a certain kind of sex life. If you're right and this person would have raped someone no matter what, then why are we focusing on "well the victim could have been someone else if you had only done X!" instead of "this person was going to rape someone no matter what, and unfortunately they chose you"? That's ridiculous.

    Agreed, and easier said than done. Unfortunately every group has its extremists (religious groups, political groups, you name it) and unfortunately they are the small but loud minority. Since these are the people most seen, they are most associated with feminism, and you get huge misconceptions about what feminism really is. It's frustrating.

    Please define what you mean by "in my experience" and give some concrete proof, because this sounds pretty fishy. Your example is nothing but hypothetical as far as I can tell. Anyone should be able to wear whatever clothing they want so long as they're not breaking any laws. The only person not showing any "good sense" is the person who decides to go out and rape another person.

    Ansem, you can't really have it both ways. You can't say a victim is blameless, and then in the same breath say she could have avoided being the victim (allowing just a different person to be the victim instead) had they had the "sense" to dress differently. The problem is that no matter what, someone would be raped, and that's the problem. It doesn't actually solve the problem of people being raped! Someone is still getting raped at the end of the day no matter what. Again, you have entire societies of women who dress "modestly," and rape is still a huge issue there. What on earth would you tell a woman in a niqab who was raped?

    A few interesting points here.
    Firstly, rape culture isn't just about rape itself being normalized, though it is hard to deny when you have so many jokes and threats that say "I'm going to rape you" or "you should be raped." It's also about a culture that normalizes harassing women, to the point where many are afraid to speak up because "you're supposed to just deal with it and not talk about it" (see #everydaysexism for thousands of stories of just this). Also, many rape victims simply aren't believed. The majority of rapists never face any repercussions.

    Secondly, that is a perfect point about sexual expectations of men. We are told that men are supposed to always want sex, and that women are never supposed to want sex. Men and women who don't follow this are seen as deviants and are outcasted. This also makes it harder for men and women to express their desires in a healthy way.

    Regarding women's paranoia around being assaulted, you also have to consider it from a female perspective. 1 in 4 women will be assaulted in her lifetime (meaning you know at least one person who has been assaulted). We are told from a young age not to dress in certain ways, not to be alone, not to trust men we don't know and even men we do (the majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows). We have to carefully regulate how much we drink and plan how to get home from parties. We are told that we are responsible for preventing rape, and that if we do get raped it's our fault for not protecting ourselves well enough. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. So yes, a lot of women can be put on edge by what you might consider a minor thing, because we're taught to be on edge. I can tell you first hand that it sucks for us, too.

    I was the one who mentioned this, and I linked to multiple politicians who have said equally idiotic things. In some cases, they literally do not understand biology. If you want to define rape, go back to my definition of consent: if you don't get a "yes," then it's non-consensual, and thus rape. If this definition does not cover the idea one wishes to convey, then find a different term.

    Yeah this doesn't usually happen, and I'm pretty tired of the topic. I think we can all agree that anyone who accuses an innocent person of committing a crime should be punished. That said, there is also a difference between claiming to have been raped without being raped VS being raped and nobody believing you, assuming you made it up. This also makes it incredibly difficult to get the help and support they need.

    Do moderate religious folks have to speak up every time an extremist says or does something extreme? What would you have us say, anyway?

    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
    ellie likes this.
  13. The Admiral

    The Admiral solid state survivor

    Be specific?

    I think that those statistics would depend on the sample, in terms of the wildly varying percentages you claim the existence of. Actually, if you could post those, that would probably be useful.

    Of course. It's definitely not easy, but I think that it's a push that should be made, if only to point out that the extremists do not speak for the whole.

    I guess that people who are led to believe that all feminists are man-haters are probably too set in their ways to convince, though.
  14. Nightmareisalive

    Nightmareisalive Well-Known Member

    Well most cases yes. I have seen Muslims having to defend their religion because of Muslim terrorists who make a very small number of the whole Muslim community. Feminism would also have to defend itself because of the actions or words of a small minority of the whole group. I think about it like this. Feminists have no problem arguing and dealing with a sexist pig who hates feminism but struggle or just ignore a sexist pig who says they are a feminist.Why the double standard? Is feminism in that such a need for members that they let people say sexist things and be openly hateful to one sex just because they say the are feminist even if they don't follow what the word feminism is meant to mean? If I was a member of a group and that groups reputation was being ruined because of a small few I would have to say or do something. Either to the person(s) or to say sorry to people who were targeted by that person(s). If you really cared about something you would defend and protect it no matter what even if it meant having to turn on other members if they are causing harm to what you believe in.
  15. Super Nerd 7997

    Super Nerd 7997 Crazy Plant Guy

    Well, yes, there are lots of stupid politicians, I was just trying to make a point about how the word has started to lose its meaning. I agree with your definition, however, there's a bit of dispute over what consent means. For example, saying yes while intoxicated is not considered giving consent (rightfully so), but somehow if both people are equally drunk and, in their intoxication, decide to have drunken sex, the guy is still considered to have "raped" the girl, even though neither party could have given consent. Why is this?

    This is a serious problem you bring up, and sadly one that does not have an easy solution. The best thing to do as a society is to be less quick to judge the accused as guilty before having a fair trial. It wouldn't fix the problem, but I think it would help.

    Not every time, but if you notice most Christians, for example, have done a great deal to distance themselves from the Westboro Baptist Church. Simply telling them that not all men are evil rapists would be a good start. I do kind of see your point here, though.


    This seems like a good place to start: http://www.theforensicexaminer.com/archive/spring09/15/
  16. The Federation

    The Federation Why Not?

    Meh, wearing little to nothing in the way of clothing is definitely going to effect the way you're perceived by your peers, society, and even family. While this doesn't mean it's fine or acceptable to harass someone wearing skimpy dress, it does mean that you accept the implications of how you dress. This is true for any style of dress, but it's pertinent here.

    A compliment about someone's body, whether it be a man or a woman, is less than stable or consistent. That's why you don't make remarks on other people's bodies, good or bad, unless you know that person will accept it and appreciate it.

    This is false. You are perceived as more vulnerable the less clothing you wear, something I might have never considered unless it was presented to me in the gaming feminism thread. You are seen as a more emotional object the less you wear. A rapist already has something mentally wrong with them, so moral evaluation isn't something that is going to be considered when they pick their victims. Knowing this, clothing plays a big part.

    It's sad, but this is fact. Dressing modestly might actually help women in avoiding harassment and even rape.

    Yes, it can and does happen to women of any dress, but that doesn't mean it doesn't contribute to a rapist's choice of victim.

    The sentiment that "women had it coming" is wrong, but the message might just be right. How you dress has an effect on how you are treated and how you are perceived, as a victim or an authority. If a woman is raped wearing very little clothing, you have to understand that it probably contributed to the likelihood of rape.

    In no way does this mean it's ok, or that it could have been avoided, because we don't know if it could have been, but it is a factor that needs to be examined.

    Society considers bashing men ok, but bashing women is completely amoral. For proof, walk into a public area and ask if people want to hear a joke, then tell one that's anti-female and one that's anti-male, and see which is accepted.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  17. Eterna

    Eterna Well-Known Member

    Rape culture does not exist.
  18. Super Nerd 7997

    Super Nerd 7997 Crazy Plant Guy

    ...and I've now got some negative rep calling me disgusting and uninformed because of this thread. I've tried to be very fair with my statements here, and express my point of view without trampling over others. If people can't handle dissenting opinion they shouldn't be reading the debate forum.
  19. Peter Quill

    Peter Quill star-lord

    Congratulations on proving what with this post? If you're going to say that at least back up your claim jfc.

    You know I think that it's fair that you're upset, but this isn't the medium to bring up concerns about reputation or not. Complaining against reputation in a public setting is against the rules and really isn't suited for the debate forum. Feel free to PM myself about any negative reputation in the debate forum and the rest of the debate staff can make a call on if it's abusive or not.
  20. Eterna

    Eterna Well-Known Member

    If they couldn't bother to respond to your arguments here and instead decided to just neg rep you then don't worry about them. They aren't worth the time and effort.

    I don't need to. You need to prove to me that Rape culture exists as it is your original post that implied its existence despite the fact I see no proof of its existence.

    Edit: Ah, an Infraction. I find it hilarious considering my post contains just as much substance as the claims in the original post. Gotta love biased moderation.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013

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