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Feminism & Rape Culture 2014: My Post is Up Here Guys

Blazekickblaziken

Snarktastic Ditz
I think the biggest issue surrounding people not accepting rape culture, is that people think that rape culture means a society that approves and promotes rape, as opposed to a society wich has certain attitudes, beliefs, and values, all of which make rape more likely to happen. You CAN be against something but have attitudes that are counterproductive to your stance. (I mean just look at how religious conservatives hate premarital sex, but by refusing to educate youth about sex, they actually cause them to be more likely to have premarital sex at an earlier age.)

Also while it is certainly important to not characterize rape as a crime only men perform to only women, it is also disingenuous to act like there isn't a gendered dynamic to the whole situation. I believe I posted an article earlier which mentioned rape in the army. Most victims of rape were male, but it was noted that the population of the army was disproportionately male, and that each individual woman was still more likely to be raped than each individual man.
 

~CallOfTheIndie~

Now on vinyl
I personally am not a proponent of the feminist movement. Although I do believe that feminists have good intentions and do what they can to put women at equal footing with men, I can't help but to think they do nothing but argue with fallacies to get what they want. Many of the feminists I've seen while aimlessly walking around would argue with men and rudely talk over everyone to get their point across, which is not a healthy way to promote said cause. Therefore, it's fueling the notion that feminism is a negative connotation, ultimately dissuading many from being a part of the movement. Many women are capable achieving what they want in life, but we also have roles to fill. Women are meant to be the ones that nurture the family and children; we are the ones that bear children and protect them as ferociously as a lioness would protect her cubs. Our needs to succeed with our career endeavors should not be a reason to abandon our roles as wives, mothers, and anything else. After all, we are all just animals in the end and the females of every species were created to fulfill that purpose. If the woman was an inept mother, then child custody to the father is understandable. I believe that in order for a man to succeed, there has to be a loving woman who can guide him every step of the way, whether she's his mother or wife. Like me, for example; I was raised to understand my role as a woman and embrace it, but it isn't impeding me from ultimately achieving what I wish to achieve. Somehow I think feminism impedes equal success, placing women on a pedestal while making men suffer for their own endeavors. If we really wanted gender equality, we would have to mind both sides of the coin and not play favorites, which is what I believe feminism seems to do.
 
I think the biggest issue surrounding people not accepting rape culture, is that people think that rape culture means a society that approves and promotes rape, as opposed to a society wich has certain attitudes, beliefs, and values, all of which make rape more likely to happen.
Can I have a definition to work with? One was offered, but so far back I can't even find it. I believe it was defined along the lines of a society that excuses and condones rape as a whole? But since I'm not sure, if you would offer another that would be great.
 

WildHennaCharizard

Well-Known Member
Can I have a definition to work with? One was offered, but so far back I can't even find it. I believe it was defined along the lines of a society that excuses and condones rape as a whole? But since I'm not sure, if you would offer another that would be great.

You could look at Classical Greece and Rome. Rome had brothels, even the myths had Rape in them; Zeus raped Hercules mother, Medusa was raped by Piosdeion when she was human. Women could not vote, considered property and in some cities could not leave the house!
 

matt0044

Well-Known Member
Can I have a definition to work with? One was offered, but so far back I can't even find it. I believe it was defined along the lines of a society that excuses and condones rape as a whole? But since I'm not sure, if you would offer another that would be great.

Rape culture doesn't condone rape (at least not consciously like "rape is legal. Have at 'em, boys!") so much as cause people like authority figures to blame the female victims for "letting themselves get raped" and barely (if ever) holding the male assaulter accountable for his own damn actions. As for proof, well, get a barf bag ready...

Look, there's disagree with another's views and then there's denial. Not to mention invalidation of personal (and traumatic) experiences.
 
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Maedar

Banned
Know why the Republicans are in trouble? I'll put it simply.

Heard in a diner the morning after Election Day:

First customer: So, uh, did the rape guy win?

Second customer: Which one?


When more than one candidate in a political party can be identified by a controversial view on the crime of rape, the party is in trouble. Period.
 

mewslayer118

Mewslayer
This thread shouldn't be on this site. I have young family members who visit this forum and they should be able to safely browse without having to read about this garbage. The spoiler button hardly protects them and there is no warning of adult content when visiting the forums.
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Know why the Republicans are in trouble? I'll put it simply.

Heard in a diner the morning after Election Day:

First customer: So, uh, did the rape guy win?

Second customer: Which one?


When more than one candidate in a political party can be identified by a controversial view on the crime of rape, the party is in trouble. Period.

Getting your commentary from political cartoons? You are also describing any politician who's been accused of rape.

This thread shouldn't be on this site. I have young family members who visit this forum and they should be able to safely browse without having to read about this garbage. The spoiler button hardly protects them and there is no warning of adult content when visiting the forums.

It's a topic people want to discuss. Many debate halls are there so that older fans can discuss issues that interest them away from the areas that most of the younger members hang out in.
 

Maedar

Banned
No, I was getting it from an editorial commentary on a political talk show. And I think you know the two guys I meant.
 

Blazekickblaziken

Snarktastic Ditz
Can I have a definition to work with? One was offered, but so far back I can't even find it. I believe it was defined along the lines of a society that excuses and condones rape as a whole? But since I'm not sure, if you would offer another that would be great.

What's wrong with the definition I gave? Well, here's wikipedia's definition:

Within feminism, rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

Now, I'm aware part of the definition is "condone rape", please, please, PLEASE do not get hung up on that part. If a culture does even so much as one of the things on that list, it qualifies. Now you may argue that we don't tolerate (which I disagree with) or that we don't condone (which I feel is legitimately debateable) rape, but we definitely excuse it and normalize it.
 

WildHennaCharizard

Well-Known Member
This thread shouldn't be on this site. I have young family members who visit this forum and they should be able to safely browse without having to read about this garbage. The spoiler button hardly protects them and there is no warning of adult content when visiting the forums.

I sorry to say this but we do not live in a safe world; we live in a world where people will want to harm you and your loved ones. It is best to prepare your young family members to the danger that is out there.
 

Peter Quill

star-lord
This thread shouldn't be on this site. I have young family members who visit this forum and they should be able to safely browse without having to read about this garbage. The spoiler button hardly protects them and there is no warning of adult content when visiting the forums.

This thread is perfectly fine where it is.

The debate section as a whole houses threads which are garnered for more "mature" (for a lack of a better word) discussion. We've had your argument in the past over homosexuality for instance - but I'm not about to censor threads just because somebody asks me to. The entire purpose of a debate forum is about education through opposing viewpoints and engaging so that people can have a better understanding of divisive issues as a whole.

For what is "garbage", I would actually suggest that you re-read the thread again. It's fine if you don't, because it's a subject content that not many people like reading about. My point is that the moderation in the debate forum is very specific in comparison to the rest because we have to treat these sort of serious issues very seriously so that people can read about them properly. Anything that seems like it is outwardly trolling or has prejudice is treated accordingly through the infraction system.

Basically what it comes down to is that I'm not going to delete a thread that has serious discussion in a sub-forum that is full of serious discussion. If you'd like to talk about it more you can PM me. This is the last thing that I'm going to post publicly about it (and you should be thankful I'm not infracting you quite honestly considering your post is spammy) and I'm going to ask that nobody else comment on this thank you.

I sorry to say this but we do not live in a safe world; we live in a world where people will want to harm you and your loved ones. It is best to prepare your young family members to the danger that is out there.

Is a really important point that I hope you think about as well.
 

Iceberg

A human
I used to not describe myself as a feminist until I saw a post on Reddit one day that said "You know you are living in a patriarchal society when being a feminist is a negative thing" . My mind was blown. That post had wisdom. If the very act of fighting for women's rights is put down, then we can't in our right minds say that women are completely equal now can we?

On the topic of rape culture and s/ut shaming, I find the whole backbone of both things to be ridiculous. The ideology of "she was wearing a short skirt so she was asking for it" is completely flawed for two main reasons:

1) saying it is a woman's fault she got raped because of how she was dressed is like saying it was your fault you got robbed because you live in a nice house. No sane person would say or accept the latter, so why is the former okay?

2) as any psychologist will tell you, rape is not really about sexual attraction. Rape is about power. That's why women wearing burqa's get raped, little children get raped, elderly women get raped, and 'ugly' women get raped.
 
I used to not describe myself as a feminist until I saw a post on Reddit one day that said "You know you are living in a patriarchal society when being a feminist is a negative thing" . My mind was blown. That post had wisdom. If the very act of fighting for women's rights is put down, then we can't in our right minds say that women are completely equal now can we?
Just wanted to point out that Moogles, the main mod and sole proprietor of this thread, has made it fairly clear that he believes "men's rights" movements to be absurd. Whether this is true or not, it invalidates the idea that calling a movement absurd lends weight to the idea that that group is being oppressed.


On the topic of rape culture and s/ut shaming, I find the whole backbone of both things to be ridiculous. The ideology of "she was wearing a short skirt so she was asking for it" is completely flawed for two main reasons:
I wish we could get past the things that nobody in their right mind would attempt to advocate and move on to something that real people actually don't agree with. I never see dissent here anymore, due to this thread's moderation, and it doesn't help that people only add to the problem by posting things like "**** shaming is bad" and "sexual assault can't be justified by choice of clothing".

Would respond point by point, but frankly I don't want to be infracted. Been down that road.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
1) saying it is a woman's fault she got raped because of how she was dressed is like saying it was your fault you got robbed because you live in a nice house. No sane person would say or accept the latter, so why is the former okay?

Hmm...parents also teach kids that they shouldn't walk into a dark alleyway alone, or enter unsafe neighborhoods at night. You would say that their chances of getting robbed increases if they do choose to hang out at the wrong places. Are they asking for it? Well, they are obviously not be blamed if they get mugged, but they could have avoided the chances of it happening by not going there in the first place.

Anyway, obviously everybody will say that no woman regardless of how she dresses is asking to get raped and that she should is to be blamed for it. A better questioned to be asked is, "does the way a woman dresses play any contributing factor? Even a little?"
 

Peter Quill

star-lord
Anyway, obviously everybody will say that no woman regardless of how she dresses is asking to get raped and that she should is to be blamed for it. A better questioned to be asked is, "does the way a woman dresses play any contributing factor? Even a little?"

No.

Also everybody who says rape culture doesn't exist wow here's an example.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Anyway, obviously everybody will say that no woman regardless of how she dresses is asking to get raped and that she should is to be blamed for it. A better questioned to be asked is, "does the way a woman dresses play any contributing factor? Even a little?"

That's like saying "If you didn't want to get hit by that car running that red light you shouldn't have been driving your car safely like a normal person". That's just victim blaming.
 
Hmm...parents also teach kids that they shouldn't walk into a dark alleyway alone, or enter unsafe neighborhoods at night. You would say that their chances of getting robbed increases if they do choose to hang out at the wrong places. Are they asking for it? Well, they are obviously not be blamed if they get mugged, but they could have avoided the chances of it happening by not going there in the first place.
And you can bet that if caught, your robber will be charged with a crime regardless of where you were or what you were wearing. The same cannot be said about rapists. This whole analogy is **** anyway because once again it just likens women's bodies to property and material goods, lol.

Anyway, obviously everybody will say that no woman regardless of how she dresses is asking to get raped and that she should is to be blamed for it.
You are extremely fortunate to have the luxury of believing this.

A better questioned to be asked is, "does the way a woman dresses play any contributing factor? Even a little?"
That's not even a good question either. Who cares if it plays a contributing factor? Don't rape people. It's not difficult.
 

The Admiral

the star of the masquerade
Just wanted to point out that Moogles, the main mod and sole proprietor of this thread, has made it fairly clear that he believes "men's rights" movements to be absurd. Whether this is true or not, it invalidates the idea that calling a movement absurd lends weight to the idea that that group is being oppressed.

On this note, we need to not call these so-called "men's rights activists" that.

Because they're not. Look, I may be stupid as a rock, but I know what at least... let's say ten words mean, and with that limited knowledge, I can safely say that.

Anyway, obviously everybody will say that no woman regardless of how she dresses is asking to get raped and that she should is to be blamed for it. A better questioned to be asked is, "does the way a woman dresses play any contributing factor? Even a little?"

Wait, wait, wait.

If we shouldn't, then why are you saying we should? Since really, that's kinda what it seems like you're doing.
 
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