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Feminism & Rape Culture 2014: My Post is Up Here Guys

LDSman

Well-Known Member
@LDSman

You seem to not understand that rape roleplay is fundamentaly different than rape. Rape is what it is because it lacks consent. If it doesn't lack consent it's not rape. It's a pretty simple concept. It doesn't matter that person 1 gave complete control of the situation to person 2. This is done with the understanding that if at any point person 1 says stop, person 2 will do exactly that. If person 2 doesn't stop, then it stops being roleplay and becomes rape. Not to mention that in these scenarios, the partner who is the agressor is suposed to be aware of the other person and make sure they aren't taking things too far.

I am quite aware of what the roleplay is supposed to entail. I am also aware that there are people who want the reality. The difference between the fake vampires who drink a bit of blood and the person who found someone who was willing to be killed and eaten. Every fetish has an extreme dark side that someone want to do.
 

Maedar

Banned
What in the ever living heck are you talking about? Whoopi Goldberg defended Roman Polanski. According to her, it wasn't "rape rape."

That's the first I've heard of it.
 

Peter Quill

star-lord
as fascinating as debating about Whoopi Goldberg is maybe you guys can take that to PMs because obviously Maedar doesn't know the story involved if his last post is an indicator.
 

Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
@LDSman

You seem to not understand that rape roleplay is fundamentaly different than rape. Rape is what it is because it lacks consent. If it doesn't lack consent it's not rape. It's a pretty simple concept. It doesn't matter that person 1 gave complete control of the situation to person 2. This is done with the understanding that if at any point person 1 says stop, person 2 will do exactly that. If person 2 doesn't stop, then it stops being roleplay and becomes rape. Not to mention that in these scenarios, the partner who is the agressor is suposed to be aware of the other person and make sure they aren't taking things too far.

I would also like to add to this by saying that the culture surrounding BDSM is heavily rooted in misogyny and violence against women and contributes so much to rape culture. People's sexual desires/kinks don't exist in a vacuum and they also aren't inherent. Just because people have "rape fantasy" kinks does not mean those kinks are not problematic or don't contribute to rape culture as a whole. BDSM (and an unwillingness to be critical of BDSM culture by playing it off as "safe, sane, and consensual" without taking into consideration the wider repercussions of encouraging such culture) is part of the problem.
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
I wasn't trying to debate about Whoopi. I was trying to point out that there are also Democrats that argue what rape is. I wasn't expecting Maeder to make wild assumptions and not just ask or even google it. The last link provided should cover it. Maeder can google it if he wants to know more.

Hopefully back on topic.

India has a huge issue with their caste system that lends itself to justifying assaults. Hopefully the media coverage will aid in eliminating that. It will take awhile. You don't get rid of cultural assumptions that easily.


I would also like to add to this by saying that the culture surrounding BDSM is heavily rooted in misogyny and violence against women and contributes so much to rape culture. People's sexual desires/kinks don't exist in a vacuum and they also aren't inherent. Just because people have "rape fantasy" kinks does not mean those kinks are not problematic or don't contribute to rape culture as a whole. BDSM (and an unwillingness to be critical of BDSM culture by playing it off as "safe, sane, and consensual" without taking into consideration the wider repercussions of encouraging such culture) is part of the problem.

You have anything to cite that says that "BDSM is heavily rooted in misogyny and violence against women"? There are whole groups that have woman as the ones punishing men.
 
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Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
You have anything to cite that says that "BDSM is heavily rooted in misogyny and violence against women"? There are whole groups that have woman as the ones punishing men.

I think it's kind of obvious even to an outsider viewpoint. I'll have to see if I can find anything that's been studied, but until then I'll just use a little bit of critical thinking. The vast majority of doms in the BDSM subculture are male (one only has to ask someone within the culture, or even just browse a site like FetLife to figure that one out). Also consider the high popularity of hardcore porn and the amount of violence in it, and it's primary audience: males. The whole concept of getting off to dominating, humiliating, and punishing a woman is misogynistic. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand that. And while there are female doms, the reasons for male subs getting off on the idea of a woman dominating them is also misogynistic: because they see it as something that doesn't happen "in the real world" outside of the bedroom. Because in everyday life, men are the dominant class, so male subs the idea of a woman being in a dominant position is different and "kinky."

I'll look and see if I can find some specific links, but much of what I know comes from people inside the culture (so people who actually enjoy that kind of thing, but thankfully aren't above criticizing it) so I don't know how much of an "official" source you would consider them. I think it's a pretty easy concept to understand, though, all things considered.
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
I think it's kind of obvious even to an outsider viewpoint.
There are many things that appear obvious but aren't actually true. Correlation does not equal causation.

I'll have to see if I can find anything that's been studied, but until then I'll just use a little bit of critical thinking.
Studies would be preferred to opinion.


The whole concept of getting off to dominating, humiliating, and punishing a woman is misogynistic. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand that. And while there are female doms, the reasons for male subs getting off on the idea of a woman dominating them is also misogynistic: because they see it as something that doesn't happen "in the real world" outside of the bedroom. Because in everyday life, men are the dominant class, so male subs the idea of a woman being in a dominant position is different and "kinky."
Isn't this a bit of a double standard? Men do it so they can act out their violent fantasies. Women do it so men can act out there submissive fantasies.

I'll look and see if I can find some specific links, but much of what I know comes from people inside the culture (so people who actually enjoy that kind of thing, but thankfully aren't above criticizing it) so I don't know how much of an "official" source you would consider them. I think it's a pretty easy concept to understand, though, all things considered.

People don't always see things the same way.
 

Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
There are many things that appear obvious but aren't actually true. Correlation does not equal causation.

I'm well aware of that, but critical thinking never hurt anyone.

Studies would be preferred to opinion.

I'll work on it... even if people in this thread typically like to ignore my studies in favor of their opinions, which is kinda funny.


Isn't this a bit of a double standard? Men do it so they can act out their violent fantasies. Women do it so men can act out there submissive fantasies.

How is that a double standard? I never said the women in these communities aren't above criticism either. One also has to consider where these fantasies come from, which is society's gender roles: men are supposed to be strong and dominant and get what they want, while women are supposed to be passive and let the man call the shots. In BDSM, it's just taken to a much more extreme level.


People don't always see things the same way.

I don't know what this has to do with my post.


Edit: Just as one article (I know it's not a study, but I'm working on it) that talks about some of the issues in BDSM culture from people within the culture itself.
I'd like to bring attention to one very important paragraph (emphasis mine):
As word spread about the multiple accounts of consent violation, the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom (NCSF) launched a survey. “We haven’t closed it yet, but so far we have 5,000 responses, and over 30 percent of them had have their previously negotiated limit violated, which I think is horrific,” said spokesperson Susan Wright. “There is still confusion between consensual BDSM and assault.”
Here's another one with lots of links, including to the NCSF survey. (The NCSF and its survey have been criticized for silencing abuse survivors within the BDSM community so it's worth taking into consideration that the percentage of consent violations may actually be much larger, but 30% is still a really big chunk.)
 
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LDSman

Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of that, but critical thinking never hurt anyone.
Critical thinking works better with more data.

I'll work on it... even if people in this thread typically like to ignore my studies in favor of their opinions, which is kinda funny.
I don't have an opinion on BDSM other than it's a kink I'm not interested in.

How is that a double standard? I never said the women in these communities aren't above criticism either.
Everything is done on account of the men. It doesn't account for the women who are either interested in the submitting or in the dominating.


I don't know what this has to do with my post.
People will look at a situation and each come to a different conclusion. Your friends' opinions on the BDSM community may not reflect the reality. A social pariah may claim a group hates him and works against him all the time, while the reality is that the pariah messes things up on his own.
 

Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
I don't have an opinion on BDSM other than it's a kink I'm not interested in.

I wasn't talking about you. I was just pointing out something for my own amusement.


Everything is done on account of the men. It doesn't account for the women who are either interested in the submitting or in the dominating.

Because the overwhelming majority of violent people in the BDSM subculture are men. That's not to say that some of the women don't have anything to answer for. There are plenty of "sex-positive" women within the BDSM community who excuse a lot of the problems within the community and that is also a problem. Someone can be into/like something and also be critical of aspects of it.


Your friends' opinions on the BDSM community may not reflect the reality. A social pariah may claim a group hates him and works against him all the time, while the reality is that the pariah messes things up on his own.

Considering most of the people I've met who are in the community are heavily invested in it and they're not the only ones who have had bad experiences, I'm willing to consider their experiences to be pretty representative of reality. However, I know they can't necessarily be "proven" but I think their experiences matter.

Edit: Also, "You're just saying it to be a victim" is a really dangerous accusation to make toward oppressed groups who constantly have their experiences dismissed as no-big-deal, and it seriously pisses me off so I might have to step out of this conversation for a few days if people keep having really gross attitudes towards victims.
 
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EmphaticPikachu

A tired little girl~
/Oh god why am I commenting on this.

I'm not really part of a BDSM culture or know the culture that well, so if you're criticizing the culture/sub-culture go right ahead, but I have to wonder about the base of the kink you're describing.

Are you absolutely sure the reason why males like being subby is because it's "different"? I consider it a stress reliever, and the dom just so happens to be the sex I am attracted to. It's a stress reliever more then the dominant role because if I go dom, I am constantly worrying about if I've gone to far, or what are their limits, etc. That's why the sub role is so fun to me, a complete lack of control or very little of it, and the face of enjoyment on the dominator. My enjoyment on the base of it hardly has to do with gender roles.

I admit there's some correlation between gender roles and BDSM, given that in fantasies I sometimes tend to imagine a male "penetrating" me by accident, and get turned on by it only to realize a second later "Wait a second..." and go back to a female dominating because I've realized my mistake. Also sometimes referring to me as "female" or feminine like makes me feel more submissive, but it's hardly the reason why I truly enjoy it. If anything, I'd say that is societies biases and gender roles reflecting onto the concept itself, rather then BDSM controlling and solidifying gender roles. But that happens with so many things in society, I hardly think it's special in any way shape or form.


PPS: Blazekickblaziken, I do appreciate the calm response you gave me before about the rape question, I just never really felt like responding and thanking you. But since I'm here anyway, I might as well thank you. ^^
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking about you. I was just pointing out something for my own amusement.
I was just pointing out that I don't do that.

Because the overwhelming majority of violent people in the BDSM subculture are men. That's not to say that some of the women don't have anything to answer for. There are plenty of "sex-positive" women within the BDSM community who excuse a lot of the problems within the community and that is also a problem. Someone can be into/like something and also be critical of aspects of it.
Okay.


Considering most of the people I've met who are in the community are heavily invested in it and they're not the only ones who have had bad experiences, I'm willing to consider their experiences to be pretty representative of reality. However, I know they can't necessarily be "proven" but I think their experiences matter.
Possibly. People do complain more about bad experiences than good ones.

Edit: Also, "You're just saying it to be a victim" is a really dangerous accusation to make toward oppressed groups who constantly have their experiences dismissed as no-big-deal, and it seriously pisses me off so I might have to step out of this conversation for a few days if people keep having really gross attitudes towards victims.

Definitely not going that route. Some people do consider themselves to be victims when they are responsible for what happened. Not people who are victims of crimes but people who make bad financial choices or choose to speed or laze about and fail to complete an assigned project. Or even the people that act like jerks to others and then blame the others for not hanging out.

/Oh god why am I commenting on this.

Personal perspectives are always welcome.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Yes. It happens. Usually the male is the one that gets accused of rape and he may end up punished in some manner for it. Most rape laws are worded so that ahhh..penetration... is required for there is be rape. Unless the female has a device, the laws don't consider it rape. It's rather biased that way.

So if two people comparatively under the influence go have consensual sloppy drunk sex, they'd technically be raping each other? Is the law really that vague...?
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
So if two people comparatively under the influence go have consensual sloppy drunk sex, they'd technically be raping each other? Is the law really that vague...?
Only if a complaint is filed.

Some states are overally specific and require penetration of some sort to be considered rape. Which means if the woman files a complaint after she sobers up, the man might get arrested. If the man files the complaint, he may get told it wasn't rape, even if he was actually restrained. Other states just lump it all under sexual assault 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree with unwanted sex(rape) as 1st going down from there.

Some groups claim that if alcohol is involved at all, it is automatically rape with the female as victim, regardless of whether or not they are both drinking.
 

Iceberg

A human
Only if a complaint is filed.

Some states are overally specific and require penetration of some sort to be considered rape. Which means if the woman files a complaint after she sobers up, the man might get arrested. If the man files the complaint, he may get told it wasn't rape, even if he was actually restrained. Other states just lump it all under sexual assault 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree with unwanted sex(rape) as 1st going down from there.

Some groups claim that if alcohol is involved at all, it is automatically rape with the female as victim, regardless of whether or not they are both drinking.

This is the messy area when it comes to rape. As with practically all social issues, there is a grey area that some people let muddy the whole issue (not saying you are, but I've seen it happen).

If you want my personal opinion, I'd say that either party calling rape when they were both drunk is bullocks. If we aren't going to expect a drunk woman to be able to fend for herself/make responsible decisions, how can we expect a drunk man to do those things? This scenario is very different from when only one party is drunk, because then the sober party is, or should be, legally responsible to draw the line.

All of this talk about alcohol muddying rape claims or sexual kinks making the line unclear (*cough* Blurred Lines - a whole song about how men "know you want it") is a really good example of rape culture. If rape was so completely and 100% taboo people wouldn't so openly sit around and discuss situations or reasons why the raper is not in the wrong. Is this a good thing or bad thing?

That isn't for me to say.

What I can say is that I have to work at the local police station for part of my uni's forensic science program. One day my partner and I were watching the forensic specialist overlook some of the samples they just got from examining a rape victim when we overheard the rape victim talking to a police officer (who was a ~50 year old man). What was the police officer saying to her, you ask? He was trying to convince her to not press charges. Some of the questions he was asking her (besides "are you sure you want to press charges") were "What were you wearing?", "How drunk were you?" and "did you lead him on in anyway?" Suffice to say, I was outraged. My partner was so outraged the specialist and I almost had to restrain him. In case this story seems unbelievable to any of you, remember that I hail from the city where police refused to press rape charges even though there was photographic evidence of the act because the 15 year old girl in question was drunk.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
Wow, a lot happened while I was gone. Okay.

The very far end of spectrum does include people who want an actual lack of control.
Sure, but it's by far a minority, which you get with any kink - a very small number of people who take it too far. There are some people who like to role-play sex with a family member, and then there's a tiny subset of people who really do want to bang their sibling or step-parent. You also get people who want to have sex with animals or corpses. For most of these people these all remain fantasies, and of them only a small portion will act on those desires. We are not talking about a lot of people here, and we probably aren't talking about people with pristine mental health either. I'm not sure what there is to say about this except "there will always be a few people who want to do crazy ****."

I said "few female rapists compared to male rapists." If there is 1 female rapist per 19 male rapists, then yes, that is comparatively few. I am by no means saying they don't exist. iirc, child abusers are more likely to be female, but I'm not sure if that's necessarily the same subject.

Unless they can get it directly from the Facebook account, it's hearsay. And the media frequently gets things wrong.
*shrugs* He printed it out, saved the conversation and showed it to police immediately. You're right that it still isn't the best proof, but I'm merely pointing out that there is a lot to the story that hasn't been covered.

True for the drunk victim. Maybe not so true for the second. A lot of people carry even if they are with friends because something might occur that doesn't involve the friend.
The idea that people will sit at home watching TV or eating dinner with a single friend while armed is really quite saddening to me. Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian and guns really aren't a part of our culture, but this sounds like pretty intense paranoia.

It's also interesting how people often complain (such as on the first pages of this thread (example)) about how women get so paranoid around every single guy and how unfair it is for Nice Guys to be prejudged. But then you get someone like yourself at the opposite end of the spectrum who encourages that paranoia by suggesting all people be armed at all times. It's clear both sides of the argument want what's best, but I find it absolutely baffling.


Who prevents crimes then? The police exist to catch those that break the law.
How many other crimes do we ask this of?


Are there studies that show that people don't know what consent is or that sex ed prevents rape?
Someone who knows what consent looks like and actively seeks it is less likely to rape someone "by accident" (as in not having any malicious intentions). The fact is that a lot of people just don't understand what constitutes consent, and some realize after the fact "now that I know what consent is, I realize that something I did once wasn't really kosher." That said, I will look for some statistics.

Nice jab at Republicans. What about the Dems? Whoopi springs to mind. There are groups that constantly redefined what rape is. Both of you have drinks first? Rape. You didn't plan on sex for that date? Rape. You regretted it the next day? Rape.
I wouldn't have to point it out if it weren't so prevelant. Also, from what I've seen, the difference is that Republicans attempt to make laws around their misconceptions around rape. I'm not saying Democrats are perfect, but I have yet to see them do the same, unless I am looking in the wrong places.

Is it okay to respond to this? As links have shown, guns stop crimes anywhere from 1 million to 2.5 million times a year. guns used in crimes? Around 400,000.
That was an unfair jab and I apologize, but my point remains that there is no risk of people getting hurt because they were educated too much.

I am quite aware of what the roleplay is supposed to entail. I am also aware that there are people who want the reality. The difference between the fake vampires who drink a bit of blood and the person who found someone who was willing to be killed and eaten. Every fetish has an extreme dark side that someone want to do.
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I'll just say that this is still a very small minority, and the people who do have those kinds of fixations often have personal issues associated with that kink that are best resolved with a counsellor, not in the bedroom.


I would also like to add to this by saying that the culture surrounding BDSM is heavily rooted in misogyny and violence against women and contributes so much to rape culture. People's sexual desires/kinks don't exist in a vacuum and they also aren't inherent. Just because people have "rape fantasy" kinks does not mean those kinks are not problematic or don't contribute to rape culture as a whole. BDSM (and an unwillingness to be critical of BDSM culture by playing it off as "safe, sane, and consensual" without taking into consideration the wider repercussions of encouraging such culture) is part of the problem.
I'm going to have to disagree with this one, actually.

I strongly believe that as long as any sexual act is done safely, sanely, and with consent of all parties, it's your own business and it's not a problem. An individual's personal fantasies and what they do behind closed doors does not necessarily affect the rest of their life. You certainly do get some kinksters who, for example, want to take the master/slave dynamic into their regular life, but even that's only as problematic as you make it.

Frankly, I'm also someone believes that if a woman or man truly wants to be a stay-at-home parent without a career, they should as long as they are doing it because they want to and not due to pressure or coercion (because feminism to me means having all those options). (I personally believe everyone should have a career, and in a perfect world nobody would choose to do this, but that's me.) That said, you will get controlling, abusive a-holes who force their spouse to stay at home, and that, to me, is when it becomes unacceptable.

In the same vein, you also get a-holes who enter BDSM communities with no actual idea of what BDSM is and how it differs from abuse (like the author of Fifty Shades of Grey), or people who do know that difference, but use BDSM as an excuse to find victims to abuse. These are the types of people who will coerce, who will push boundaries, who will hurt their partners without realizing or caring. These are people who should not be in the community.

That is not, however, to say that there isn't a swath of people who just enjoy the different elements of BDSM, be it the helplessness of being tied up or the power of spanking someone. If you want hot wax dripped on your belly and someone enjoys dripping hot wax on other people, let them be happy together. Fantasy is fantasy, and as long as you keep your fantasies separate from your daily life and the important decisions you make, what you do behind closed doors shouldn't matter.

I also feel that your posts don't really take the desires of a number of people into account. For example, in cases of same-sex individuals performing BDSM scenes, there generally isn't the gender dynamic you're referring to. Men from a variety of social classes enjoy being dominated, and part of why it appeals to so many people (women included) is the loss of power or control. You get rich CEOs and politicians who just want to let go for a few hours, and there is something liberating about that. But just as you get men who are only subservient in the bedroom, so too do you get women who are only subservient in the bedroom. Sexual role-play allows you to try out different scenarios and different roles and discarding them afterwards, be it a sexy nurse and patient or a slave and master.

Do rape fantasies contribute to rape culture? I'm not sure, but I do believe that a s long as they remain in the bedroom between two consenting adults, it doesn't have to be problematic. It may be a symptom, but to say it actively contributes might be pushing it.

Is there a lot of violence in porn? Absolutely, but I'd rather people get it out of their system through pornography than by actually going out and hurting people. For instance, there is a correlation between access to pornography and lower rape rates, as seen in this study.


Also, a note about sex positivity, because I think that might be misunderstood: sex positivity is not "everyone should have sex all the time." Sex positivity is "sex is okay, sex is not something to be ashamed of, having a different sexuality is not something to be ashamed of, our bodies are not things to be ashamed of - in fact, these are things we should celebrate." I should add that "different sexualities" includes asexuality. Anyone who claims to be sex positive and talks solely about how everyone should constantly be having sex is either misguided or trying to coerce you.


If you want my personal opinion, I'd say that either party calling rape when they were both drunk is bullocks. If we aren't going to expect a drunk woman to be able to fend for herself/make responsible decisions, how can we expect a drunk man to do those things? This scenario is very different from when only one party is drunk, because then the sober party is, or should be, legally responsible to draw the line.
In the majority of cases yes, but I'd like to point out that a drunk person can absolutely rape another drunk person.

~Psychic
 
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Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
@Psychic: I probably should have made it clear that I don't necessarily have a problem with BDSM as whole. However, the normalization of it in mainstream culture (50 Shades is a pretty large example of it, but not the only one because parts of BDSM are seen in all kinds of other media from violent pornography to mainstream movies) has really taken a toll on the community because there are clearly enough people who think it's acceptable to use the community to fulfill their violent fantasies. The fact that almost a third of people surveyed in the NCSF survey have had their boundaries violated and their safewords ignored is a problem. I also don't believe that what you do in the confines of your bedroom don't have an affect on the way you look at the bigger picture because as I said, kinks don't exist in a vacuum. I think it's important to consider why someone gets off to something and not just that they do get off to something, you know what I mean? That's just looking at the sexual abuse side of BDSM culture and not at some of its other problematic aspects; age play and race play being examples of other problems. I don't have anything against kinks, but I also don't think they're above criticism. On a similar note, I take no issue with sex positivity but rather I take issue with certain parts of the movement that are resistant to certain aspects of sex (namely kinks and other such "private" things) being criticized.

But honestly, my biggest issues was the idea of saying that rape fantasies mean rape isn't always rape, which is such a terrible way to look at things, especially when so much of BDSM can be seen as a moral grey area in regards to consent, etc.
 
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EmphaticPikachu

A tired little girl~
I also don't believe that what you do in the confines of your bedroom don't have an affect on the way you look at the bigger picture because as I said, kinks don't exist in a vacuum. I think it's important to consider why someone gets off to something and not just that they do get off to something, you know what I mean? .
While under the influence of sexual lust and desire, your reasoning ability literally starts to shut down. (It is because of this that I prefer to just not even start something rather then try to resist.) Because of this factor, I have a hard time trying to judge a person's true opinions on a matter while under the influence of this. It's best in my opinion if we can just separate the two.

But I DO support looking into why though. Don't get me wrong. It perplexes me sometimes. Who knows, maybe there is something that drives us all to do this stuff that can be modified and changed for the better.
 

The Admiral

the star of the masquerade
@Psychic: I probably should have made it clear that I don't necessarily have a problem with BDSM as whole. However, the normalization of it in mainstream culture (50 Shades is a pretty large example of it, but not the only one because parts of BDSM are seen in all kinds of other media from violent pornography to mainstream movies) has really taken a toll on the community because there are clearly enough people who think it's acceptable to use the community to fulfill their violent fantasies. The fact that almost a third of people surveyed in the NCSF survey have had their boundaries violated and their safewords ignored is a problem. I also don't believe that what you do in the confines of your bedroom don't have an affect on the way you look at the bigger picture because as I said, kinks don't exist in a vacuum. I think it's important to consider why someone gets off to something and not just that they do get off to something, you know what I mean? That's just look at the sexual abuse side of BDSM culture and not at some of its other problematic aspects; age play and race play being examples of other problems. I don't have anything against kinks, but I also don't think they're above criticism. On a similar note, I take no issue with sex positivity but rather I take issue with certain parts of the movement that are resistant to certain aspects of sex (namely kinks and other such "private" things) being criticized.

So, basically, a lot of this sounds like "it's been ruined by stupid people who Just Don't Get It."

Sounds about like what I'd expect.

Though I can certainly agree that anyone who thinks they are beyond criticism are probably the ones who are least so.
 

Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
While under the influence of sexual lust and desire, your reasoning ability literally starts to shut down. (It is because of this that I prefer to just not even start something rather then try to resist.) Because of this factor, I have a hard time trying to judge a person's true opinions on a matter while under the influence of this. It's best in my opinion if we can just separate the two.

While I'm not expecting people to ask themselves, "How does slapping your ass with a riding crop get me off?" while they're in the act, it doesn't hurt to ask yourself why you like things before/after the fact.

So, basically, a lot of this sounds like "it's been ruined by stupid people who Just Don't Get It."

Sounds about like what I'd expect.

Though I can certainly agree that anyone who thinks they are beyond criticism are probably the ones who are least so.

Well, to be fair, there's a lot of room for abuse in a subculture that thrives on playing violent roles. The fact that the mainstream has tried to delve into it without the understanding of the ideas of "safe, sane, and consensual" just gives more abusers the green light to use it as an outlet. And then you have large social networking communities, such as FetLife, that actively hide and shelter abusive individuals. And a lot of the racism, sexism, and violence is directed toward women.
 
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