Feminism & Rape Culture 2014: My Post is Up Here Guys

[bobjr]

See? That's the thing, you're thinking solely about the women and not the men. The only way we can get rid of sexism is to stop talking about it.

Considering being raped is one of the most traumatic experiences someone can go through it's only right to have sympathy for them. Sexism will exist regardless, it's all about making the line as equal as possible.

 

[Ivoright]

Eww...

Yea, no, I don't think that's the best way to remove sexism from our society. In fact, I don't think that approach really works with anything anywhere.

I think what was meant was that, in not talking about sexism, which includes being sexist in and of itself, it is taking a step in the right direction.
I think that was what was meant, but I'm not positive.

 

[bobjr]

It feels to me it was more of a "Let's sweep this under the rug and ignore it, because it'll go away then!" which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[The Federation]

What do you mean, "sexist in and of itself"? How is discussing gender disparity sexist in any way? Any discussion is a step in the right direction.

 

[The Meddler]

I think what was meant was that, in not talking about sexism, which includes being sexist in and of itself, it is taking a step in the right direction.
I think that was what was meant, but I'm not positive.

Ivoright was, dare I say, ivo"right". The more it's a battle of the sexes, the more it's a battle of sexism where the roles in society are dictated by gender rather than by free will.

Also, slightly off topic, I'm not one to complain about negative rep comments of course I expect them coming into the debate forum, but can we leave my sig out of it?

 

[Ivoright]

It feels to me it was more of a "Let's sweep this under the rug and ignore it, because it'll go away then!" which couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't think that's how it is... But what can I say?
Maybe simply target the most important issues, but the way I think it is that if you want equality, then practice it! And if there's inequality in your life, then confront it!
Because arguing about things won't convince anyone and just gets people angry.

What do you mean, "sexist in and of itself"? How is discussing gender disparity sexist in any way? Any discussion is a step in the right direction.

I mean that it includes sexism, not that it is sexist.
Maybe re-read my post?

 

[LDSman]

Discussing the issues can help people decide how to address any problems. It can lead to problems if a person decides to inflate an issue to make it appear to be a bigger issue, so that is an issue to watch out for. Sometimes people who spearhead campaigns for their favorite causes can become too involved and will refuse to admit that the issue isn't nearly the problem it was made out to be or may decide to create a controversy to "create discussion."

 

[bobjr]

Ivoright was, dare I say, ivo"right". The more it's a battle of the sexes, the more it's a battle of sexism where the roles in society are dictated by gender rather than by free will.

It's not a battle of the sexes though, it's a battle to be equal where the people with the most power don't want to lose any of it, so they fight that equal side. Race, gender, it's not one battle in any sense.

 

[The Meddler]

It's not a battle of the sexes though, it's a battle to be equal where the people with the most power don't want to lose any of it, so they fight that equal side. Race, gender, it's not one battle in any sense.

You're right, it's not really a battle as it is a war, with each side trying to come out on top instead of what really matters, finding an equal ground and living together in peaceful harmony...something that I really hope we can come to soon, however long it may be.

 

[bobjr]

You're right, it's not really a battle as it is a war, with each side trying to come out on top instead of what really matters, finding an equal ground and living together in peaceful harmony...something that I really hope we can come to soon, however long it may be.

When one side wants equality and comes out on top compared to one side that wants to maintain a status quo, you'd think the equality thing is a given. The only people who treat it as a war are the people who don't want it to change and play victim and play up the other side as crazy people who want to bring the system down.

 

[The Federation]

I mean that it includes sexism, not that it is sexist.
Maybe re-read my post?

Ok?

I think what was meant was that, in not talking about sexism, which includes being sexist in and of itself, it is taking a step in the right direction.

Maybe learn how to express yourself with words?

Even the more, expressive, of today's feminists usually just want equality rather than "a war". The goal, as you said, should be common, even if sometimes the methods are ineffective or even harmful.

 

[Maedar]

See? That's the thing, you're thinking solely about the women and not the men. The only way we can get rid of sexism is to stop talking about it.

So your solution to this problem is, "ignore it and hope it goes away"?

Nine times out of ten, that sort of thing makes a problem worse.

And I think you're making excuses.

 

[Sadib]

@Marioguy

1) I don't think you understand how analogies work.

2) Rape in the media is usually presented as a violent act commited by a stranger. In real life rape is usually done by someone the victim knows and is not violent. In the media rape is presented as a "fate worse than death" for wome, completely ignoring it happens to men as well (unless it's for a punch line). So while you could definitely say that the media presents rape and rapists as bad (wich is still kind of debatable) we can also say that the media doesn't present what rape *IS* correctly. So, yeah...

Please tell my how what I said about your flawed classroom example is wrong.

 

[LDSman]

How the media portrays rape depends on what type of show or movie it is. If it's some kind of movie involving a family, then it may be a family member. If it's some kind of action flick, then it's not likely to have the main character's family mentioned at all. Sitcoms try very hard to be family friendly, and the story line can be either a stranger or a family member.

 

[Steampunk]

It seems, though, that the burden of rape always falls in the spotlight of the male. In some cases, probably more often than not, it's actually the women's fault. This is generally what needs to be addressed, as men are being falsely 'thrown under the rape bus' persay, and a world where a woman can throw another man in jail simply by saying he raped her, is not a world that I feel comfortable living in.

v

Um. Are you trying to say, that sex was undertaken under the pretext of consent, but then one side decided LATER that it was not consentual, and then accuses the other party of rape?

 

[Navin]

I think what The Meddler is trying to say is that society today doesn't see rape from the POV of a male. For example, if I had consensual sex with a woman tonight, and the next day, for whatever reason, the woman suddenly accuses me of rape even though I did not nothing wrong, there is still a definite chance I might face legal consequences for it. There's just this automatic assumption that the woman is a victim and the man is guilty. I also think he's trying to say there's a double standard. For example, if a man and woman were both equally drunk and had consensual sex and the next day if the woman calls rape, the man is charged and the woman is considered a victim even though the man too is a victim of rape and the woman is also guilty; on the flip side, if the man called rape, it has a chance of not even being considered as such.

This is what I think he's trying to say.

 

[Maedar]

How the media portrays rape depends on what type of show or movie it is. If it's some kind of movie involving a family, then it may be a family member. If it's some kind of action flick, then it's not likely to have the main character's family mentioned at all. Sitcoms try very hard to be family friendly, and the story line can be either a stranger or a family member.

LDS, rape is usually taboo in the media, and if it is portrayed in ANY way other than an evil act committed by a villain, then the movie itself gets an NC-17 rating.

If it appears at ALL, the actual crime is rarely even shown on-camera. A man may threaten to do it to a woman or insinuate that he will do it in a movie, but actually doing it is rare, and if that happens, it's usually off-camera.

Some notable examples of where this crime is portrayed as very evil:

The Devil's Advocate: In this movie, it only takes the implied rape to convince the protagonist to turn on the villain, and convince him that his evil father is actually Satan.

In the film version of Daredevil, the only bad guy that the hero is known to kill is a rapist who got away with it.

In Con Air, every single character, including serial killers Cyrus the Virus and Garland Greene, are disgusted by serial rapist Johnny 23. Cyrus threatens to kill him if he tries to do it to a captive female guard. As Cyrus tells him, "I despise rapists. For me, you're somewhere between a cockroach and that white stuff that accumulates at the corner of your mouth when you're really thirsty. But, in your case, I'll make an exception." (He's eventually beaten to death by the hero.)

Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer gains sympathy from every character up until Season 6 when he tries to do this to Buffy, at which point everyone, even Dawn, refuses to help him. (It's probably the only truly evil thing her ever did on-camera.) And it's also the point where Spike himself realizes he's crossed the line, and finally sets himself down the path where he regains his soul. Also, the crime that turns Warren into an absolute monster is the attempted rape and then murder of Katrina. He's beyond redemption at that point.

In JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion Morgoth's crimes include genocide and countless betrayals, but the narrative goes out of its way to call out his desire to rape Lúthien as "a thought more wicked than any he had before conceived."

Want me to go on? Because I know a LOT more examples.

 

[LDSman]

LDS, rape is usually taboo in the media, and if it is portrayed in ANY way other than an evil act committed by a villain, then the movie itself gets an NC-17 rating.

M, I was referring to a previous comment that said that rapes were usually shown as committed by a stranger. Depending on the type of the show, who commits the rape changes. Rape does get mentioned often enough that I don't believe it's a "taboo" subject. Just something that is carefully handled. I'm not aware of any movies that portray rape as anything else.

If it appears at ALL, the actual crime is rarely even shown on-camera. A man may threaten to do it to a woman or insinuate that he will do it in a movie, but actually doing it is rare, and if that happens, it's usually off-camera.

A lot of shows don't show the event, just the aftermath.

Some notable examples of where this crime is portrayed as very evil:

Want me to go on? Because I know a LOT more examples.

Don't care.

 

[Maedar]

M, I was referring to a previous comment that said that rapes were usually shown as committed by a stranger. Depending on the type of the show, who commits the rape changes. Rape does get mentioned often enough that I don't believe it's a "taboo" subject. Just something that is carefully handled. I'm not aware of any movies that portray rape as anything else.

A lot of shows don't show the event, just the aftermath.

Don't care.

I know that, I know that, and I think you know I know you know that. I often wonder why you keep coming to the debate forum if you don't care about any of the issues.

 

[Sadib]

LDS, rape is usually taboo in the media, and if it is portrayed in ANY way other than an evil act committed by a villain, then the movie itself gets an NC-17 rating.

If it appears at ALL, the actual crime is rarely even shown on-camera. A man may threaten to do it to a woman or insinuate that he will do it in a movie, but actually doing it is rare, and if that happens, it's usually off-camera.

Some notable examples of where this crime is portrayed as very evil:

The Devil's Advocate: In this movie, it only takes the implied rape to convince the protagonist to turn on the villain, and convince him that his evil father is actually Satan.

In the film version of Daredevil, the only bad guy that the hero is known to kill is a rapist who got away with it.

In Con Air, every single character, including serial killers Cyrus the Virus and Garland Greene, are disgusted by serial rapist Johnny 23. Cyrus threatens to kill him if he tries to do it to a captive female guard. As Cyrus tells him, "I despise rapists. For me, you're somewhere between a cockroach and that white stuff that accumulates at the corner of your mouth when you're really thirsty. But, in your case, I'll make an exception." (He's eventually beaten to death by the hero.)

Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer gains sympathy from every character up until Season 6 when he tries to do this to Buffy, at which point everyone, even Dawn, refuses to help him. (It's probably the only truly evil thing her ever did on-camera.) And it's also the point where Spike himself realizes he's crossed the line, and finally sets himself down the path where he regains his soul. Also, the crime that turns Warren into an absolute monster is the attempted rape and then murder of Katrina. He's beyond redemption at that point.

In JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion Morgoth's crimes include genocide and countless betrayals, but the narrative goes out of its way to call out his desire to rape Lúthien as "a thought more wicked than any he had before conceived."

Want me to go on? Because I know a LOT more examples.

In the Doctor Who episode Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, the villain implied that he was going to rape someone. He's one of the few people that the Doctor outright murders while begging for his life. I found this article on tv tropes lists examples of when rape is used for comedy. I guess that shows just how alive the rape culture still is. Family Guy is easily the worst offender.