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Final Battle! Ash VS Kukui!! (1084)

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I know, I am just replying to your comment about Charizard being fresh vs G.
Well, obviously it participated during all wars with other 3 Tapus since they're guardian of Alola. There are only one of them in main dimension.
Nope, already commented that Squirtle was tired from Onix and Squirtle at that time was like low to mid gym level. Tauros didn't show anything prior this: he didn't battle in Kanto league in gym matches. Charizard at that time is stronger than when he fought Blaine's Magmar who should be high gym level, so probably Charizard was high gym+ level or something, and he was tired too.Pikachu always seemed during those times to be weaker than Charizard and he was tired too. So Dragonite lost to Pikachu but beat high gym+ level tired Charizard, tired like low level Squirtle, and featless Tauros. That still means around low FB since he held well against Pikachu.

What reasons puts Regice at least High FB? I would understand in DP that he's that level since Brandon trained him but in BF what are reasons again?
But Latios didn't sweep anything, it was Darkrai's doing , it was stated IIRC that he beat even gym leaders with Darkrai.
Greninja could do that except for Alain's MCX. In fact we have seen Greninja beating Tomo's Altaria and assumed he swept rest of him. But here's problem: why would Ash do that? Ash is a type of trainer who would let all of his Pokemon( except lately reserves sadly) to battle in a league, to take a shot to see how they are holding up. Tobias is obviously a trainer who doesn't care about his Pokemon thus only using Darkrai while his other 5 Pokemon do nothing.

Yes, adn we don't know how many wars, how much contributed, etc.
Again, you are missing context against the strongest trainer of the region with a Pokémon that was considered the strongest no legendary Pokémon (and sometimes considered legendary) with 10 moves and being able to swept more than half of Ash's team. Easily Low E4.
Because he was a Pokémon of the strongest FB and he is a legendary Pokémon, two big reasons. Yes, but Latios would be just below Darkrai, so if Darkrai was High E4 at that point, Latios can be Mid E4 easily
Greninja didn't he still was damaged by Sawyer's Mega-Sceptile. Not even MCX swept the entire league for Alain because he used Metagross against Remo, so MCX and Darkrai are probably at a similar level of High E4 level.

However, the point is still that Kukui and Ash's Incineroar are easily at least in the Low E4 level based on what we see about them and in the comparisons against other opponents in the Alola League
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Yes, adn we don't know how many wars, how much contributed, etc.
Again, you are missing context against the strongest trainer of the region with a Pokémon that was considered the strongest no legendary Pokémon (and sometimes considered legendary) with 10 moves and being able to swept more than half of Ash's team. Easily Low E4.
Because he was a Pokémon of the strongest FB and he is a legendary Pokémon, two big reasons. Yes, but Latios would be just below Darkrai, so if Darkrai was High E4 at that point, Latios can be Mid E4 easily
Greninja didn't he still was damaged by Sawyer's Mega-Sceptile. Not even MCX swept the entire league for Alain because he used Metagross against Remo, so MCX and Darkrai are probably at a similar level of High E4 level.

However, the point is still that Kukui and Ash's Incineroar are easily at least in the Low E4 level based on what we see about them and in the comparisons against other opponents in the Alola League
Yeah, but the fact is that TK would be much much stronger than even Leon's Gigazard because of that long time, maybe not on Mewtwo level from PJ but still strong, thus he was nerfed since Pikachu was shown to be above him and Pikachu only fought for 10-20 years maybe less.

You're also missing context on how strong or weak those swept Pokemon are and if they were fresh or hurt in a battle. You can't say that you swept 5 Caterpie and that you're low E4 level.

1. Brandon caught Regice in BF aka he owned very little before battle with Ash, so basically that battle was more of wild Regice vs Pikachu.
2.Being a legendary also don't mean that much since we have seen even in current series, how Legendaries are treated. Zapdos was hurt by Noivern and Raboot and those two are like mid gym level or something. Now, being a legendary does have huge jump start like Regice without training would probably beat some high gym levels, while Ash's Pikachu in beginning was weaker than first gym leader.
Now, look at Charizard he beat wild Articuno( who has high jump start) but lost to Dusclops, that proves that Legendaries are not automatically stronger than anyone. Same with Regice. Now, Regice in DP, I agree that he would be high FB but in BF: Nope.

Since Brandon is a chief of FB his Pokemon that he trained should be from high FB+ to at best mid FB( like Solrock and Ninjask).We know that Regirock and Steel are stronger than Regice since they were trained and Ice wasn't. Dusclops based on Charizard fight and later he fought Bulbasaur IIRC proved to be really strong. So, basically all I see here is Regirock > Registeel > Dusclops, so after that comes Regice. Sure DP Regice > Dusclops but wild one: Dusclops wins. All I see Regice to be like mid+ FB level - high FB level( like lowest end of stick).

A-G was also nerfed during those battles except in vs Alain and vs Diantha where he was that Champion Ace.
As of Sawyer: he was damaged but he still won, he would've one shot Sawyer's other Pokemon very easily and battle Sceptile like he did in semi finals. Alain didn't use MCX against Remo until very end, he was doing it with Base and Metagross.

Based on Sceptile and Blazeape and Ilima's route, they're mid FB+ level to - high FB(low end).
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the fact is that TK would be much much stronger than even Leon's Gigazard because of that long time, maybe not on Mewtwo level from PJ but still strong, thus he was nerfed since Pikachu was shown to be above him and Pikachu only fought for 10-20 years maybe less.

You're also missing context on how strong or weak those swept Pokemon are and if they were fresh or hurt in a battle. You can't say that you swept 5 Caterpie and that you're low E4 level.

1. Brandon caught Regice in BF aka he owned very little before battle with Ash, so basically that battle was more of wild Regice vs Pikachu.
2.Being a legendary also don't mean that much since we have seen even in current series, how Legendaries are treated. Zapdos was hurt by Noivern and Raboot and those two are like mid gym level or something. Now, being a legendary does have huge jump start like Regice without training would probably beat some high gym levels, while Ash's Pikachu in beginning was weaker than first gym leader.
Now, look at Charizard he beat wild Articuno( who has high jump start) but lost to Dusclops, that proves that Legendaries are not automatically stronger than anyone. Same with Regice. Now, Regice in DP, I agree that he would be high FB but in BF: Nope.

Since Brandon is a chief of FB his Pokemon that he trained should be from high FB+ to at best mid FB( like Solrock and Ninjask).We know that Regirock and Steel are stronger than Regice since they were trained and Ice wasn't. Dusclops based on Charizard fight and later he fought Bulbasaur IIRC proved to be really strong. So, basically all I see here is Regirock > Registeel > Dusclops, so after that comes Regice. Sure DP Regice > Dusclops but wild one: Dusclops wins. All I see Regice to be like mid+ FB level - high FB level( like lowest end of stick).

A-G was also nerfed during those battles except in vs Alain and vs Diantha where he was that Champion Ace.
As of Sawyer: he was damaged but he still won, he would've one shot Sawyer's other Pokemon very easily and battle Sceptile like he did in semi finals. Alain didn't use MCX against Remo until very end, he was doing it with Base and Metagross.

Based on Sceptile and Blazeape and Ilima's route, they're mid FB+ level to - high FB(low end).

Absolute nothing established than TK is much stronger than Leon's Charizard. And by the billionth time, "nerfed" is not a thing in the anime unless something like the Zekrom situation happens.
Not really, considering that Ash was still a trainer that was top32 in the Kanto League and won the 4 badges of the Orange League, which was very high by OS standars.
Both Zapdos were just damaged but not defeated, unlike Regice or Darkrai. Charizard lost to Dusclops because Ash forgot that Seismic Toss doesn't work against Ghost Pokémon.
By the billionth time, A-G was not nerfed, people should start to accept what A-G was able to do and what he wasn't able. Yes, he still won, but Sawyer's Mega-Sceptile still made a good battle against a High E4 Pokémon, so he can be easily Mid E4 Pokémon.
As I said, Sceptile is around Mid E4 Based on his biggest feat against Darkrai and he was able to outspeed Deoxys + his decently good Battle Record. Infernape is at most Low E4 such as Incineroar because they biggest feats are similar and their Battle Records similar.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
@CMButch @RafaSceptile NOBODY cares for your arguments when it comes to which Pokémon is more powerful lmao, esp the writers. Your scaling of a Pokemon's strength doesn't matter, and I think we are all tired of this derailing the thread. Go to PMs if you wanna continue the unecessary power scaling stuff
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Absolute nothing established than TK is much stronger than Leon's Charizard. And by the billionth time, "nerfed" is not a thing in the anime unless something like the Zekrom situation happens.
Not really, considering that Ash was still a trainer that was top32 in the Kanto League and won the 4 badges of the Orange League, which was very high by OS standars.
Both Zapdos were just damaged but not defeated, unlike Regice or Darkrai. Charizard lost to Dusclops because Ash forgot that Seismic Toss doesn't work against Ghost Pokémon.
By the billionth time, A-G was not nerfed, people should start to accept what A-G was able to do and what he wasn't able. Yes, he still won, but Sawyer's Mega-Sceptile still made a good battle against a High E4 Pokémon, so he can be easily Mid E4 Pokémon.
As I said, Sceptile is around Mid E4 Based on his biggest feat against Darkrai and he was able to outspeed Deoxys + his decently good Battle Record. Infernape is at most Low E4 such as Incineroar because they biggest feats are similar and their Battle Records similar.
Yes it did: him battling countless time against many UBs and other Pokemon for a long time. Of course nerfed TK that battled Pikachu ( it depends on measurement, though since TK when he battled Naganadel is weaker than TK that battled Pikachu) is much weaker than Gigazard.
Being Top 32 in Kanto league was nothing special, especially how battles are constructed like Squirtle being asleep and he's out. Muk didn't do any attack he just covered Bellsprout and he fainted etc. Only battle that made sense was Kingler one. As of OI gyms, Ash only battled like two people for real.
They were damaged by mid gym level Pokemon like Raboot and Noivern which proves that Legendaries are not automatically above anyone.
Even if he forgot about that, Dusclops still beat it and Charizard had remaining 3 moves that worked on Dusclops, also Dusclops fought Bulbasaur after and did good on him. Dusclops is obviously very strong.

A-G when he battled Diantha was his true power, when he battled Wulfric he was nerfed since if he was strong as when he was battling Diantha he would have one shotted Wulfric's MA. In his Sawyer battle he also is not on power when he was during Diantha's battle. He achieved that and even probably little above: when he battled Alain's MCX.
Sceptile is not on that level based on Darkrai's feat which nothing put Darkrai to mid FB level or beyond. At best Darkrai's feat is: around Regirock level or so aka close to low E4. Speed also don't hold much weight. Remember how Nagan was speedy but somehow he lost that speed when he battled Lucario. Greninja was so speed that he was FTE but lost that when he fought MCX. Infernape aka Blazeape is weaker than Sceptile, Blazeape's feat is coming from being above ( not that much above) Paul's Electivire who is little weaker than DP Pikachu.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
@CMButch @RafaSceptile NOBODY cares for your arguments when it comes to which Pokémon is more powerful lmao, esp the writers. Your scaling of a Pokemon's strength doesn't matter, and I think we are all tired of this derailing the thread. Go to PMs if you wanna continue the unecessary power scaling stuff

More of just powerscaling, I was saying since some comments ago that Pikachu is only inconsistent between battles, but not during the same battle, that was the main argument because he was denying Incineroar strenght based on that argument related to Pikachu VS Empoleon, but OK, I understand.
 
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