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Final Fantasy Debate

Ohtachi

mia san mia
Wikipedia said:
It is difficult to summarize criticism of Final Fantasy since there are so many titles in the series, and each title has significant differences from the others. In addition, there are many types of gamers who like the series for a variety of reasons. As each new title is released, those who feel that the new game has departed from why they like the previous games in the series will tend to complain about the game, while those who feel that the game has supported or enhanced what they liked about the games will tend to praise the new title. It is not uncommon for the same title be considered one of the best by some fans, and yet as one of the worst by other fans.
One characteristic of the Final Fantasy series is that virtually each title in the series is different than all the other games. Certain features will appear in more than one title, but at a minimum the characters are different, the world itself is different, usually the battle system is different, etc. A comparison between the only sequel in the series (X-2) and the original title finds that even though both take place in the same world, and with many of the same characters, the battle system, as well as the general feel of the two games are drastically different. In many cases, there are more differences than similarities between any two titles in the series. This makes it difficult to objectively compare the individual titles because there is no single benchmark to define what is a good Final Fantasy game.
For some gamers, a good RPG is like dining at a fine restaurant: the goal is to enjoy the experience rather than seeing how fast you can finish the meal [1]. These types of gamers enjoy being immersed in the game's world, exploring different areas, playing all the side quests and mini-games, etc. It is not uncommon for such gamers to be at the point where they can finish the game, but instead choose to continue to play, possibly leveling up, exploring remote areas, etc. in order to either discover more about the story, or simply to enjoy the atmosphere of the game. For these gamers, the more diversions there are in the game the better they like it. On the other hand, there are many other gamers who enjoy the challenge of finishing a game in the shortest possible time. These gamers consider time spent in cut scenes and side quests as a waste of time. They will also tend to level up their characters only when they have to because of stronger enemies. Clearly, these two groups will evaluate the same game quite differently.
In the earlier titles, where graphics were very limited, the appearance of the characters was communicated mostly by comments made in dialogue. In the more recent titles, the sexuality of a character is more obvious, and some fans feel that this has gone too far. A source of frequent criticism along this line is Final Fantasy X-2, where Rikku wears a bikini top and a skirt that has been described as one "that folded in half would make a fine belt" [2], and Paine makes suggestive comments during in-battle chatter. Many of the costumes leave little to the imagination, and the in-game battle scenes where they change costumes are often quite suggestive.
Many long time fans of the series blame what they perceive as a fall in standards on the departure of character designer Yoshitaka Amano after Final Fantasy VI. Tetsuya Nomura, who has handled character design for the majority of the post-Final Fantasy VI series', has been criticized by the Amano fans, especially those who feel that Nomura's designs look too juvenile when compared to Amano's work.
No matter how many fans there are that hold this belief however, there are just as many who believe that the character designs of Tetsuya Nomura have improved the games immesurably. While the earlier games tended to consist of fairly simplistic storylines (often involving the retrieval of crystals in order to save the world in Final Fantasy I through V), under Tesuya Nomura both the characters - and subsequently the story itself - became arguably more complex and 'characteristically complete'. Themes such as redemption; individual identity; personal sacrifice for a greater cause; and whether ends can ever justify the means have been explored through the development of characters throughout the later games. This increased complexity can also partly be attributed to the advance of technology allowing more intricate and in-depth scenes to be played out, thus advancing the characters' stories.
Similar to the debate of characterisation in the 'Final Fantasy' series, some fans have felt the impact of the departure of long-time series music composer Nobuo Uematsu since Final Fantasy X, where he shared the role of composer with Masashi Hamauzu and Junya Nakano. Final Fantasy XII sees Uematsu's role diminished to a single song. The game's theme song is performed by Angela Aki while the rest of the soundtrack is composed by Hitoshi Sakimoto. Final Fantasy XII has neither Amano nor Nomura as character designer, but instead has Akihiko Yoshida.
Final Fantasy is also known for "re-inventing" the series with almost every game, as each game takes a different approach in gameplay to the last, though the plots generally remain very similar in regard to their central structure and use of certain repeated plot devices and themes. Although some feel this keeps the series from feeling stale with repeated sequels, fans of one game may not like the other games in the series. Of the more recent installments in the series Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantasy X-2 have been most frequently singled out for criticism: Final Fantasy VIII for its radical story and cast of entirely human teen-aged characters; Final Fantasy XI for switching to a MMORPG format; and Final Fantasy X-2 for its status as the first direct sequel to a previous Final Fantasy game, taking a radical departure from the serious tone of Final Fantasy games (especially Final Fantasy X), and for its supposed overreliance on fan service, as the playable characters are frequently featured wearing revealing clothing (Final Fantasy X-2).
Still others view the series as straying from its roots in general in hopes of garnering more money from those who would follow the series solely because of its name. These people feel that recent projects rely too heavily on older, more popular projects and characters, such as Final Fantasy VII and its primary protagonist, Cloud Strife. The apparent attention given to these more-renowned installments has incited some animosity in long-standing fans of the series; particularly those who cherish games that they feel have been ignored by Square Enix. Part of this animosity may stem from the belief that greater attention toward the more popular and recognized games in the series is tantamount to a betrayal to those fans who stuck by the company before it became such a worldwide success. Another factor of this approach to newer works within Final Fantasy may come from Tetsuya Nomura's perceived tendency to avoid anything he has not created himself, although he has arguably relaxed this personal rule in the recent Kingdom Hearts II.
This debate has further been fuelled by some fans requesting that certain games in the series get more attention by the company. Since games made in the 8-bit and 16-bit eras of gaming tend to get only a conversion to new formats, with only a few minor tweaks or additions, fans of the earlier games feel that more money should be directed toward new projects for the older, less well-known games of the series; or else otherwise for brand-new projects entirely. A case in point is that of Final Fantasy VII, which as of 2006 has had at least seven spinoffs as part of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, with demand continuing for a full remake of the original game in order to take advantage of new formats. While some fans believe that this is too much, other fans argue that earlier games do not harbour the content to warrant such 'special' treatment, and as such argue that the only reason for such 'spin-offs' of more recent games is that there is "much more story to tell". However, this attitude doesn't address the notion of a remake for those games, which would not require "much more story to tell." Additionally, one could argue that Final Fantasy X didn't have enough content to deserve a sequel; the only two important things that Final Fantasy X-2 addressed were the state of religion in Spira after two years and what happened to Tidus. Everything else was created brand new by Square-Enix for that installment. Just the same, Final Fantasy IV could easily focus on the origin of the crystals, or some new threat that exists beneath the underground, or racial issues, or any number of other concepts. Whether or not a game has enough content, then, becomes purely point of view.
It is a debate that carries on to this day, and one suspects that it will rage on for many years to come. The main point on which both parties can generally agree is that in their opinion the series must be experienced first-hand in order to fully appreciate it. Everything else is arguably up for debate.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy Bottom of page.

Anyways, what side are you on and what is your opinion on this?
 

Korobooshi Kojiro

Funnnngaaaaa
Well, for me, the Snes era games were alot funner then the newer ones. The new ones are overly complex, and too realistic. The only new era game I really enjoyed was FF9, cause it had a more whimsical look.

Yeah, and its annoying that FF7 get like 5 spin-offs..
 

Lord Cacho

Ragle Fragle
I'm kinda half and half on this one. I do love the caracter designs and all for the previous characters on the SNES, but I didn't like the storys and the new ones have much better stories. Also I'm happy about the entire remake thing of FFVII, but I think they're going a little over board with it, and shold spred out to some other old Final Fantasy games too.(I wouldn't mind a sequal or a remake of IX.) Also i don't really care about the music. Anyone could direct it for me as long as it sounds good.
 

Ohtachi

mia san mia
I think the character designs for X-2 were cool and see no reason to debate about that aspect of the latter Final Fantasy games. Although the character designs for XII could have been better. Final Fantasy IS now being geared towards an older crowd with more adult characters and plotline. I might not even get XII.
 

Lord Cacho

Ragle Fragle
I wasn't debating on the later aspects, I was just saying that i though the earlier games had cool character aspect. Thats all. Ohh, and without a doubt I'm buying XII. I played the demo and it was out of this world. I loved the new battle system, as the random battles did get old. And you are right about the older crowds thing. It isn't geared toward children at all.
 

Lord Cacho

Ragle Fragle
Very very ture. I could let an Seven year old play Final Fantasy 2 because i knew it was alright and playful. I don't think that know about games such as VIII, and VII where there's lots of death and destruction.
 

Lord Cacho

Ragle Fragle
Yes, but IX is a lot more colorful, and kinda happy. The caracters aren't all gloomy and questioning there existance and worried about their love life.(except for Zindane and even then it's in a ok way.) And your right about the war thing. The only thing that seems to be on the mind of the entire world right now seems to be war, war and more war.
 

Ohtachi

mia san mia
Alot of characters in Final Fantasy IX discover their roots. Zidane, Vivi, Sarah (Dagger), and Fratley to name some. But the characters aren't dark and gloomy, so you're right there. Then again, Final Fantasies II, IV, VI, and IX have elements of war, too. What I'm really trying to say is that the latter Final Fantasies are losing elements of the past Final Fantasies, so that is why I'm losing interest in the series.
 
Amano<Nomura. Sorry Classic lovers (and I agree VI is one of the best games ever, I have it as #3) but VII on is better than EVERY early game except VI. I would love to say one thing, WTH is up with all the people who say V is one of the best, if not for II, V is THE worst. The classic's have great gameplay, and I don't care about graphics, but the stories of VI on RAPE anything else early in the series. VII deserves all the spin offs it got, X deserved a sequel (though not one like X-2) VI deserves one, IX deserves one, but since it kinda ended with no real questions left (about characters anyway, now the back story can be debated for 20 years)

Classics.
I Okay, benefit of doubt because it started the series, but no names of characters REALLY sucks in my opinion
II NO COMMENT
III Good, but no name sucks again.
IV OVERRATED. Good game, but those of you who think it is the best, no way.
V BLOWS. Story is ok (at best) characters suck, most jobs are worthless, not worth it till the last 1/5 of the game, and by that time you have wasted so much of your life.
VI GRAND. Story is awesome, characters are great, heck, even the world map is supperb. Near perfect in every way, Amano last (and really only) GREAT work.
 

Agustus

Well-Known Member
FF7 is far the best of all of them. FF4 was also preety good, and FF9 was underrated. FF8 was okay, it did better than FF9.
 

Ohtachi

mia san mia
I don't understand why Final Fantasy IV is overrated either. It is just a remake of II. I also believe the same thing with VI. They both have IDENTICAL plots. Also: Amano > Nomura
He did a fantastic job with the early final fantasies and did a awesome job on IX. I can see why he didnt come back though for XI and XII.
 
Ohtachi said:
I don't understand why Final Fantasy IV is overrated either. It is just a remake of II. I also believe the same thing with VI. They both have IDENTICAL plots. Also: Amano > Nomura
He did a fantastic job with the early final fantasies and did a awesome job on IX. I can see why he didnt come back though for XI and XII.

How the hell is FFIV a remake of FFII? They have nothing to do with each other, except for a few references here and there in FFIV. Let's compare the two:

FFII: Unique leveling system; main characters Frioniel, Maria, Guy, and Leonheart; storyline is Empire attempting to take over world.

FFIV: Normal leveling system; main character Cecil; storyline is much more unique, with twists and turns.

Also, overrated=/=bad. It just means that you don't like the game, while other people do. I hated FFVII, but I don't think it's overrated, do I? No, because there are plenty of people who enjoyed the game. It's a matter of opinion, really.

As you can probably tell, I'm on Amano's side.
 

Ohtachi

mia san mia
For one, the main similarity between Final Fantasies II & IV is the storyline and plot. IV just changes it around, and, like you said "much more unique, with twists and turns". VI and IX follow the same path, but I like IX the most, as it is a wonderful game from my perspective. Also, VII being overrated isn't a perspective and/or opinion from Amano's fans. It's a fact. While Nomura fans often consider our arguements nothing but gripe.
 
I really don't understand what you're saying :/. I don't see any similarities between the plotlines.
 
Ohtachi said:
For one, the main similarity between Final Fantasies II & IV is the storyline and plot. IV just changes it around, and, like you said "much more unique, with twists and turns". VI and IX follow the same path, but I like IX the most, as it is a wonderful game from my perspective. Also, VII being overrated isn't a perspective and/or opinion from Amano's fans. It's a fact. While Nomura fans often consider our arguements nothing but gripe.

No, it is an opionion, (a wrong one at that) Amano fans have to try to rip down a game that came and BLEW OUT everything Amano ever did except VI.
Since I probably know more about Final Fantasy (could be wrong) than anyone else here, and since I have done more of the challenges (I know I am not wrong) than anyone else here, I am not just a FF VII fanboy. Final Fantasy VII RAPES, I, II, III IV, V, VIII, XI. End of story, fin, done. VI and IX are very good, and comparable to VII, but the point being is, TOO MANY people think it is THE best game ever, for it to not be considered one of the best ever. Same with Ocarina of Time, I could see people not liking the two games (to each his own) what I can not see is people who think these games are overrated. Final Fantasy VII on story alone (not including gameplay, impact, characters) is one of the 10 best games ever. Nothing else, just story boosts it that high. Than you add in that it revolutionilized games, brought RPG's to the masses, first game to use stunning visuals, BIGGEST MOMENT EVER IN GAMES (Anyone who thinks Aeris death is not, name something comparable) best music in games, one of the 5 best songs in games (One Winged Angel) first game to really use an alternate language to increase the musical score, goes on and on.
IV is not a remake of II (one sucks, the other is good, just [unlike VII] overrated)
IX is sure as hell not a remake of VI (are you kidding me?)
Nomura has 2 games (KH) that blow out of the water everything (except VI [see a patern]) that Amano ever did. Did Amano do Chrono Trigger, great game, but I don't know any of the credits, if so, than add that to VI for Amano. And I guess IX, but I never have considered IX Amano's game so much, that is why I just say VI when giving him credit.
 

Lord Cacho

Ragle Fragle
Although i'm not here to interupt you rant(in fear that you'll eat me or something.) I'm still gunna say thats it's an opinion that it's the best game ever. I dont care if 99% of the human population though that VII was the best game ever, i would still say that that IX is better. It story is about 7 times as great as VII's and the characters have so much more depth. I give you the best song, villain, and moment, but for me it's characters and stories. Also i'm one of those people who doesn't care about graphics. Sure VII was revolutionary, but it wouldn't have mattered to me as long as it was a good game. I know it a great game, with amazing visuales and blah blah blah. Your just being an extreme fanboy right now. All in all it all ends up being a matter of opinion. In my OPINION, you dead wrong. In your Opinion your dead right. End of story, fin, done.

Oh, and i'll challenge you on the knowledge and challenges thing.
 
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