XIII-2 doesn't retcon it at all. It's actually the complete opposite, the point of the game is to correct everything so what happened in XIII stays the truth.
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Final Fantasy Discussion
- Thread starter Steampunk
- Start date
XIII-2 doesn't retcon it at all. It's actually the complete opposite, the point of the game is to correct everything so what happened in XIII stays the truth.
Ketaru
Well-Known Member
Final Fantasy IX was my first Final Fantasy game. Sorry to say, I've held every other Final Fantasy game against it as a benchmark ever since.
The only Final Fantasy that was able to rival it, in the way I experienced it, was XI. I seriously played XI for like a decade. I loved playing a Red Mage, Beastmaster, and Scholar. I think it was also the last time, in the flagship series, that the job archetypes were played up.
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Void Ventus
Sic Parvis Magna
Isn't that what retcon means?
From Wikipedia
"Retcons allow for authors to reintroduce popular characters and resolve errors in chronology"
That's exactly what FFXIII-2 did. Everyone got together and it was a "Happily Ever After" kind of ending. Then FFXIII-2 came, and Lightning became Valhalla's warrior and started wearing an ugly suit of armor, Serah became a cosplaying teenager whom I shamelessly bought the Bikini DLC for, Snow rocked a Chocobo hair, Hope was finally legal enough for Lightning to seduce, etc.
You clearly saw the ending of FFXIII being changed. If that's not what retcon is, then I guess One More Day was one of the best Spider-Man issues ever, instead of one of the dumbest retcons in comic-book history.
ForeverFlame
Well-Known Member
My first Final Fantasy was III on the SNES, aka VI. But I was too young to really understand what was going on.
The first Final Fantasy I completed was Tactics Advance, which is extremely underrated. It's interesting because the main character is actually tasked with destroying the crystals and the world. It's like the opposite of your typical destroy-the-world Final Fantasy villain.
The first Final Fantasy I completed was Tactics Advance, which is extremely underrated. It's interesting because the main character is actually tasked with destroying the crystals and the world. It's like the opposite of your typical destroy-the-world Final Fantasy villain.
The plot of the game is to prevent a retcon, though. If the canon was that XIII had never happened then it would have been retconned.
Void Ventus
Sic Parvis Magna
It doesn't even matter anymore. Lightning Returns' ending retcons the entire world anyways, so none of the events in FFXIII and FFXIII-2, and even LR itself, ever happened.
Have you played LR yet? Because while you could definitely look at it that way, that's not quite right.
Void Ventus
Sic Parvis Magna
Nope. Still waiting for it to drop in price to at least $20.
I did watch the ending, and so I might not get the reason, but from what I can tell, the main cast then combine together to become "Ultra Superduper Anime Light > Dark" move to defeat
Bhunivelze
By creating a new universe, you're erasing previous continuity. But let's just say new universe = new home. I get that. Lightning's goal in LR after all was to save the souls of the people and help them get on to the Ark Bhunivelze, and get them to the new universe.
But I'm still going to say FFXIII-2 retcons FFXIII's ending. At the end, it was FACT that everything was happy. Lightning was there with the group. That was clearly established. There was scene in FFXIII-2 changing the ending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY-1yX8Gx58
She just disappeared. Sucked away into Valhalla. In FFXIII-2, everyone's memory of Lightning was changed. She was clearly with the group, but now she was crystallized alongside Vanille and Fang? Dafuq??
TL;DR
Ending of FFXIII- DISNEY ENDING!! Everybody happy
FFXIII-2 retcon - Nah man. She wasn't with us! She's with Fang and Vanille or something. IDK she just disappeared, I guess.
Void Ventus
Sic Parvis Magna
I'm talking about the ending though. Like I said, Lightning WAS with the gang standing there with them.
Then in FFXIII, everyone's memory were changed, therefore changing the ending. It went from just the Oerbas being crystallized, to also Lightning being crystallized alongside them. From what I've read on GameFAQs, the novel did explain a bit for why Etro picked her, but it is still a retcon.
I mentioned One More Day earlier. That's kinda what happened here. Peter and MJ's marriage was retconned, but many events prior to their marriage was still canon. Everything happened but the marriage.
I haven't played FFXIII and FFXIII-2 in a long time. Explain to me how it wasn't retconned.
Then in FFXIII, everyone's memory were changed, therefore changing the ending. It went from just the Oerbas being crystallized, to also Lightning being crystallized alongside them. From what I've read on GameFAQs, the novel did explain a bit for why Etro picked her, but it is still a retcon.
I mentioned One More Day earlier. That's kinda what happened here. Peter and MJ's marriage was retconned, but many events prior to their marriage was still canon. Everything happened but the marriage.
I haven't played FFXIII and FFXIII-2 in a long time. Explain to me how it wasn't retconned.
Part of the plot was their memories being altered. If it was a retcon the plot of XIII would be completely ignored, it's never ignored. It's always acknowledged. It is canonical, therefore it was never retconned.
Just look at the definition again.
There was never any point in the plot of all XIII games were the plot of XIII wasn't fact. The in-lore timeline became screwed up as part of the lore. At no point did Square Enix say "XIII never happened, forget all about it gamers."
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ForeverFlame
Well-Known Member
Cosmic Retcon is the phrase we're looking for. It's different from regular retcons because the act of retconning, if that's a word, is a part of the story.
A long time ago, one of my friends accidentally left FFIVDS at my place. Admittedly, I picked it up and started playing it. Now, I have played many more since then.
And I've never played any of the FFXIII games so I can't really comment on that discussion.
Void Ventus
Sic Parvis Magna
In FFXIII, the Datalogs did talk about the Etro, Lindzei, Bhunivelze, and Yeul. Nowhere, as far as I could remember, was Serah revealed as something like Yeul is. Nowhere does it talk about time travel, and paradoxes, or becoming Etro's warrior. Analect X does hint at the events of Lightning Returns, but that's it.
The retcon is NOT erasing all the events of FFXIII, but rather the outcome of the game. Like I said a bajillion times already, FFXIII ended on a happy note.
Now take a look at FFXIII-2. It completely ignored FFXIII's ending! All that hard work in FFXIII, and for what? Nothing. Everyone's back to fighting again. Sazh is looking for his son again.
From the way I see it
•The Crystal breaking down, thus Hope needing to build his Ark to hold Cocoon = Natural continuity. It doesn't break any established event, just what happens after a few thousand years have passed.
•Lightning disappearing = Retcon. The way they handled Etro choosing her warrior was dumb. They could have made it so Lightning disappeared and became a warrior a YEAR AFTER, and not have to cause a paradox.
I think it's a retcon. You don't think it's a retcon. At the end of it all, that universe is gone now. It's just a fantasy now. Now it's older and leathered Sasuke Lucis Caelum's turn to defy the same named Gods.
The retcon is NOT erasing all the events of FFXIII, but rather the outcome of the game. Like I said a bajillion times already, FFXIII ended on a happy note.
Orphan defeated by Fang Ragnarok. Etro intervenes to save mankind, causing Light, Hope, Snow, and Sazh into humans again. Cocoon is on the brink of destruction due to killing Orphan. Fang and Vanille turn into crystals to hold Cocoon, and prevent it from falling. Rest of party escapes, and is now on Gran Pulse. Serah and Dajh also freed from crystals, everyone reunites, happy ever after.
Now take a look at FFXIII-2. It completely ignored FFXIII's ending! All that hard work in FFXIII, and for what? Nothing. Everyone's back to fighting again. Sazh is looking for his son again.
From the way I see it
•The Crystal breaking down, thus Hope needing to build his Ark to hold Cocoon = Natural continuity. It doesn't break any established event, just what happens after a few thousand years have passed.
•Lightning disappearing = Retcon. The way they handled Etro choosing her warrior was dumb. They could have made it so Lightning disappeared and became a warrior a YEAR AFTER, and not have to cause a paradox.
I think it's a retcon. You don't think it's a retcon. At the end of it all, that universe is gone now. It's just a fantasy now. Now it's older and leathered Sasuke Lucis Caelum's turn to defy the same named Gods.
And that's still the established ending.
All of the events of XIII, ending included, are 100% true. They are referenced and explained throughout both XIII-2 and LR, both in-game and in the datalogs. Immediately after the screen fades to black is when Lightning is pulled into Valhalla, because she no longer exists within time she is forgotten by everyone except the one who had the closest connection to her, Sarah. Noel comes from the very distant future after the crystal pillar collapsed bringing ruin upon the world and teams up with Sarah to prevent that future from happening and correct the paradoxes in the timeline. The ending of XIII never changed.
No, it's history. That's a big difference.
I'm really not sure how else to explain this, if you're still not agreeing we'll just have to move on I think.
Void Ventus
Sic Parvis Magna
I hate FFX-2. I did the "Shave the Hypello" mission by talking to the gotdang Hypello instead of Tobli, thus making me lose 0.2%, THUS not being able to get 100% in one playthrough
Ketaru
Well-Known Member
So with Final Fantasy III potentially headed for PC, I find myself getting impatient. I'm considering just downloading it for my PSP. But if it gets a Steam release, I'd honestly prefer playing on PC since it's easier to do things like take screencaps. That and I haven't been playing anything on Steam lately so I could do to get back into that. I still haven't played III or V.
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