Finals II: Toying (1219)

[Almighty Zard]

• Dragonite
• Dracovish
• Pikachu
• Duck

thank you kindly Sham.

 

[Ignition]

I don't at this point

Champions in this season are either glorified League Challengers or Fodder outside of Cynthia and Leon so I don't care for powerscaling

Everyone is OP and not at the same time

Based

It’s mentally illness. We’re in a series where Ash is mystically defeating Champions and he just defeated Garchomp (not even going to get into that) meanwhile Greninja was tripping to a Pokémon he had a type resistance to. Of course Ash’s team as a whole has more feats. Whoever is taking this Greninja vs Lucario debate seriously is out there.

I don’t want to be the “the writers will do what they want so why bother discussing it?” guy because people who do that here are lame (even if I don’t care for it) but I just find how intense people get over this stuff so funny. Oh no I called a Pokémon a jobber I hope it doesn’t take it personally lmao

 

[Sceptilee]

"Greninja is better" mfs when Mega Lucario beat a Dmax Togekiss and Garchomp, and Greninjas best feat is tripping pre-m8 lucario
I like Lucario getting Lycanroc'd here, the point being show here is that all of Ash's JN team (which mine you is better than all of ashs other pokemon because of feats, whether you agree with it or not its is what the facts of the series are, cry about it) are equals aside from pikachu and I love the non ace heavy battle here. People can no longer cry its a copy of like Ash vs Paul since it has made itself distinctly different

I don't really intend to get into the powerscaling debate but can the average Champion pokemon really defeat Tobias Darkrai or Alain's Kalos League ZardX ? Their Aces probably can but the average Champion pokemon is below E4 Ace tier from the looks of things. Anyway, I just think it's hard to compare Ash's Journey mons with the very best he has (Zard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile, Alola Aces etc) without seeing them battle as well.

 

[Sham]

thank you kindly Sham.

Of course

I don’t want to be the “the writers will do what they want so why bother discussing it?” guy because people who do that here are lame (even if I don’t care for it) but I just find how intense people get over this stuff so funny. Oh no I called a Pokémon a jobber I hope it doesn’t take it personally lmao

That part. Yeah it’s pretty peculiar. We are at point where Pokémon are being stanned so much so that discussing their strength causes arguments despite their performances being even less binary and linear than actual trainers themselves.

 

[Troo33]

Full Tyrantrum >Damaged Dragapult = Damaged Mega Lucario > Togekiss = Damaged Garchomp.

fixed

 

[Sham]

I don't really intend to get into the powerscaling debate but can the average Champion pokemon really defeat Tobias Darkrai or Alain's Kalos League ZardX ? Their Aces probably can but the average Champion pokemon is below E4 Ace tier from the looks of things. Anyway, I just think it's hard to compare Ash's Journey mons with the very best he has (Zard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile, Alola Aces etc) without seeing them battle as well.

I doubt any Champion would struggle against Tobias or Alain (especially KL). In fact the only reason they appear so strong is because it’s told from Ash’s perspective who has been losing leagues constantly.

And considering you can’t even get to a Champion before the Elite Four, doubt that’s even possible. The issue with this tournament is every Champion is fodder and afterthoughts and the only true competitors that mattered was Leon and Ash which is why including them in here was ridiculous from the start, if they weren’t going to have justice done for them.

 

[togenaught18]

My god, i expected a match with Mega Lucario vs Cinderace, come on...

 

[Troo33]

"Greninja is better" mfs when Mega Lucario beat a Dmax Togekiss and Garchomp, and Greninjas best feat is tripping pre-m8 lucario
I like Lucario getting Lycanroc'd here, the point being show here is that all of Ash's JN team (which mine you is better than all of ashs other pokemon because of feats, whether you agree with it or not its is what the facts of the series are, cry about it) are equals aside from pikachu and I love the non ace heavy battle here. People can no longer cry its a copy of like Ash vs Paul since it has made itself distinctly different

Garchomp had very low energy, narrator said sirfetch'd was the MVP

Mega Lucario might be stronger than BaseChomp, but it's weaker than other Aces

 

[sutellakiara]

fixed

Hyper Beam Tyrantrum = Jobnite > Damaged Dragapult > Karate Chop Hawlucha> Aura Boosted Mega Lucario > Dynamax Togekiss > Damaged Aura Boosted Reversal Mega Lucario > Damaged Base Dragon Only Moves Garchomp

Double fixed.

 

[Sham]

Not to sound rude but did anybody kinda just forget Dawn was there? There was absolutely way too much commentary going on. Team Rocket, Sonia/Hop, Diantha/Cynthia and Chloe/Dawn.

 

[Yce288]

I'm probably not gonna be the one to make this thread straight, but i'll try:
Mega Lucario beat Mr Rime meanwhile Lycanroc got no win in the Kukui battle.
Mega Lucario beat Cynthia's Garchomp and Dynamax Togekiss because both didnt have a move that is super effective against it meanwhile Leon's Dragapult has Flamethrower.
we dont know how Diantha's Tyrantrum beat Leon's Dragapult aside from the fact it used Hyper Beam against it which should have no effect against it.
just because a certain Pokemon did great against some powerful Pokemon doesnt mean it cant lose to a less powerful Pokemon with a super effective move.
lets not forget the Pikachu reset in most regions.

 

[raisus_77]

Mega Lucario beat Cynthia's Garchomp and Dynamax Togekiss because both didnt have a move that is super effective against it

More like Garchomp very conveniently forgot Dig for that battle when she still had it 30 episodes ago during the Arceus especial

 

[Shneak]

I didn't find this episode as interesting as the first but then Mega Lucario jobbed and I was UP.

Can someone explain the Mr Rime attack it was using that shot a purple beam from the ground? I assume Psyshock but then Sirfetchd did something to the ice and it was there.

 

[MegaSalamence05]

Okay I'm intrigued.

Dragonite vs Dragapult brought back memories of Drake's Dragonite in the Orange League vs Ash's Charizard. Hell yeah.

But I did call it.

Dragapult essentially toying with Ash with Dragon Tail causing Ash's Pokemon to switch. Leading to Ash's Mega Lucario being defeated. Not surprised with how it came about. Ash's Lucario has the win vs Cynthia's Garchomp. Albeit not in it's Mega form, (people didn't even expect Cynthia to have a Mega ring in the first place) So I'll give it to Lucario. (It's convenient writing with a ground type not knowing any ground type moves) even though it had Dig during the Arceus special. So yes both sides have their reason. Enough.

Now Ash is in the lead. A looming threat is coming now. We got Leon's Charizard, Cinderace and Rillaboom vs Ash's Pikachu, Dragonite, Dracovish, and Sirfetch'd.

 

[Observer]

Okay so to sum all of this up, some of you are feeling vindicated and some are kinda feeling personally attacked right?

 

[lemoncatpower]

Wow so I was excited for this episode, but I found it really slow... I watched it on 1.5x speed. If i had to see Mr Rime skating super slowly randomly all of a sudden again to do its triple axel I was gonna start skipping scenes. Some parts were interesting like dragpults dragon tail bringing out the whole team and whatever that new move was that was used

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

So yeah this episode was definitely a major downgrade from last week. It’s back to the usual stiff and slow JN battle style. Lots of static image and repeating animation.

Sirfetch vs rime, was underwhleminv since i was expecting a swordfight but really only got repeated zoomed in shots. The only really memorable thing was how ash destroyed the psychic terrain with a bug move like he did with trick room and hawlucha’s x-scissor back in XY.

Lucario was the second dullest to watch this ep. Doesn’t help that bullet punch is for the most part all it can do. It getting kicked around was funny but not super exciting to watch. ‘Concentrate’ trope to hit an unhitable enemy is whatever. The most memorable thing about lucario is that it didn’t survive the second ep.

Vish was a bit worse with a new move outta nowhere and then grabbing dragapult and just standing there for a while. I get it was like a submission hold, but without any kind of struggle it was boring to watch.

Dragonite is a mix bag but probably had the best showing. The prolonged dragon dance felt really dragged out, and i have no idea if the continuous miss with dragon claw that ended with her looking like she’s throwing a tantrum is supposed to joke or not? Dragon meteor dive to pseudo seismic toss was definitely the highlight and best animated bit of the ep, even if still not up to the standard of last week.

All in all it reminded me how the middle of the kukui fight was boring to me. Felt like the same kind if padding.

Ep didn’t even add that many more interesting cameos, so no extra excitement aside from the battle. And is ot just me or is the person sitting next to chloe seems closer to her? I wonder if they wanted to shut down the ‘another companion is coming’ copium?

Then i don’t even know what to say about the next ep because it looks like a mess.

 

[Celebitwo]

I wondering if the writers do a quirk typical of latest last-gen series an introduce something late on related to the next gen by having Leon Terastylise Charizard.

Yes, I realise that idea sounds really dumb and they shouldn't do it - the final match-up should (and probably will) come down to G-Max Charizard v 10 million Volt Thunderbolt Piakchu - but part of me feels it could be a late game surprise.

 

[mehmeh1]

Reminded me of part 2 of vs Kukui in that it was stiffer than the last one, but I actually preferred the action here

 

[Satoshi & Touko]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but could someone tell me if that empty seat next to Chloe got filled in? And if so, by who?