• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Finals II: Toying (1219)

Blood Red

【推しの子】
I don't know, but Ash having a numerical advantage by the second episode in a row in this doesn't really sell the idea that Leon is this powerful.

Unless gets Rilla-swept.
Well I mean, Ash is constantly spamming gimmicks while Leon is saving his only card for his strongest 'mon. There's also plot armor at work, obviously.
 

Zabilac

Active Member
Well I mean, Ash is constantly spamming gimmicks while Leon is saving his only card for his strongest 'mon. There's also plot armor at work, obviously.
Not to mention it's taking at least two of Ash's Pokemon to beat one of Leon's. If anything, Ash spamming his gimmicks is the only thing that's letting him stay on equal grounds with Leon.
 
Last edited:

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I have an issue with the way Power Showdown is being used. It's one of the best pieces of music JN has but it's being used to accentuate rather static battles so it seems out of place.

Vs. Cynthia it was used for Sirfetchd vs. Garchomp and that worked well - imo that fight was one of the best moments in that battle. Here it's been used as Mr. Rime casually approaches a frozen Gengar and finishes it off, and as Dracovish traps Dragapult. Those two were OK moments in the battle but because they were more static they'd have worked better with a slower, maybe more sinister track.

Power Showdown would have worked better for the Dragonite/Dragapult match because that was much more kinetic.

Might be splitting hairs to some, but I usually love the music in the Japanese version - Type Wild, or Mezase being used against Steven being obvious examples - but this usage of that track feels like a misstep.
 
Last edited:

raisus_77

Well-Known Member
One thing that I've really liked about this battle so far is that none of Leon's Pokemon look like jobbers. They are all really formidable and they've all taken quite a bit to go down. Inteleon would have won if not for Gengar G-Maxing, Mr. Rime did damage to both Sirfetch'd and Lucario, and Dragapult defeated Lucario while damaging Dragonite and Dracovish. I can actually see how ordinary ace trainers can swept by any one of his Pokemon so far.
I mean it's what happen when you give someone a 4 episodes battle. You have to extend the battle as much as you can, either with a long battle or with long filler talks
 

Zabilac

Active Member
What would Dragon Tail affecting Pikachu look like? Since he's not in a pokeball, would he just be dragged into the field by some invisible force?
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
No, you forgot to post an essay (smile).
Just to get this out of the way, this episode was a first for Journeys, an actual Go-less episode, where he appears in NO capacity, and this kinda flushes my theory of his Project Mew thing happening concurrently with the battle down the toilet, but on the other hand, it would've taken away the impact/significance of the battle, so I'm not at all fussed about this.
Onto the battle, I do like how past Ash stratgegies have come to play in his battle, specifically from his gym battles in XY, firstly having Sirfetch'd destroy the Psychic Terrain with Fury Cutter, like how Hawlucha destroyed Trick Room with X-Scissor. Secondly M-Lucario sensing Mr Rime's movements is similar to when Frogadier did so trying to hear the movements of Ramos' Gogoat.
Leon's Dragapult I will admit put in some good work on Ash's team, taking out M-Lucario, though Ash kinda messed up leading up to M-Lucario's paralysis, though he wasn't to know that Dragapult is part Ghost when he declared the use of Reversal. Not only that, Dragapult also did a number on Dragonite and Dracovish and it didn't occur to me that this was the first time we had seen the secondary effect of Dragon Tail in the anime. I do want to know what this unknown power Dracovish awakened was, that in itself was jammy and borderline DEM. I did like the way Dragonite unalived Dragapault though, it was reminiscent of Charizard's Seismic Toss (I miss that move) and I also like how there were three beams of light when Dragapult returned to its pokeball.
All in all, this was a good episode, and even though Ash is up on wins (and also being the first to unalive more than two of Leon's pokemon), I say that Leon probably still has the upper hand considering all of Ash's pokemon have taken some damage, whereas Leon has two pokemon that haven't battled, and Cinderace who has taken little, if not no damage, and when Leon says this, I'm reminded of the battle between Ash and Paul where upon Drapion's unaliving, Ash's remaining pokemon had taken damage whereas Paul's Electivire was coming in fresh.
 

vondecayle

Well-Known Member
What would Dragon Tail affecting Pikachu look like? Since he's not in a pokeball, would he just be dragged into the field by some invisible force?
Ash does carry Pikachu’s pokeball around so it might as well return to it for once. Although I suspect Pikachu will either escape from it or Ash will quickly take him out anyway.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
What would Dragon Tail affecting Pikachu look like? Since he's not in a pokeball, would he just be dragged into the field by some invisible force?
That's actually a good question.

I think it'd affect Pikachu regardless. And as @vondecayle said either Pika quickly gets out or Ash does it.

Those two were lucky, the effect never picked Pika.

Though the anime could get away with an explanation like it only affects pokémon on their pokéballs. That could work too
 

pickapika

Well-Known Member
I genuinely do not get this dormant power thing and hope it gets clarified next ep. It's especially weird when Dracovish fought two Dragon type Trainers before this, but it only pops up when it shoves a baby in its mouth. Right now, it feels like they needed a reason for Dracovish to keep Dragapult held down without magically sprouting arms.
It was not enough to have ash get two bonus powerups, so they throw in a third at the last second. Why let the final battle be an honest reflection of their abilities as trainers/ash's progress when you can just tilt it in the favor of the dude whose supposed to be overcoming the greaatest obstacle ever.

Leon is the reverse tobias. Random, comes out of nowhere, and instead of being random and unfair, he's so fair that you know Ash beating him is meaningless

Soundtrack was solid tho, like the recohrestration of the original pokemon league theme throughout. At this point it's really he only redeeming factor.
 

pickapika

Well-Known Member
I don't know, but Ash having a numerical advantage by the second episode in a row in this doesn't really sell the idea that Leon is this powerful.

Unless gets Rilla-swept.
This only works if Ash's win over Leon is dominant. Are you expecting a 6-3 trashing? If the battle is any degree of competitive overall, it is going to look like Ash needed the extra gimmicks to win.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Almost forgot to actually watch the episode lol. Watching an episode with a Ghost Type as a central part of it on Halloween feels right I suppose.

+Really enjoyed hearing XY Victory Road. Best VR theme in the franchise by far.
+Negigaknight is still one of the coolest names I’ve ever heard of.
+A “sword” fight between regional evolutions of 2 of Gen 1’s most infamous Pokémon is really funny.
+Those Klink cookies from the split up episode made a return. Love little details like that.
+Brutal Swing being a makeshift Darkest Lariat is so cool (especially since Incineroar has both in Masters)
+Don’t know how you can make Mr. Rime terrifying but it works
+They really conveyed how disgusting Expanding Force boosted by Psychic Terrain is.
+Wikstrom cameo. Look how proud he is :’)
+Pole vault Sirfetch’d is just amazing
+Obligatory mention of both of Ash’s Fighting Type birds using a Bug Type move to get rid of a Psychic Type field effect
+Bea, Gurkinn, and Korrina cameos
+I doubt that’s why he did it but it’s cool that Sirfetch’d destroyed Psychic Terrain and is followed up by Lucario using a priority move
+That entire part where Dracovish tries to counter Dragon Darts by biting the Dreepy lmao
+Dragapult’s tail being equally ghostly and draconic is neat.
+Leon getting rid of Dragon Dance’s boost with DT
+Based Dragapult for taking out the mutt.
+That Xatu that’s just sitting as if a literal Hurricane isn’t being blown in its face is the best part of the episode lmao
+Dragonite making itself a meteor was pretty cool.
+Rillaboom. That’s all.

•Why does Sirfetch’d’s Leek shield sound like it’s made out of metal lol
•From Cinderace’s Scorching Sands to Mr. Time’s Expanding Force and Triple Axel, it looks like they wanted Leon to be a walking IoA promotion which kind of makes sense given who owns it but man I wish we got an actual arc there.
•Thought I was going crazy when this first aired but were those Galar particles after Lucario ME’d? Guess they were hinting at Eternatus.
•How does Mr. Rime work? Do both faces have equal control/their own brains? Don’t know who decided to give it a second one but it’s cool.
•Don’t know how I feel about Primal Dracovish. On one hand, it comes out of nowhere but it makes sense as Dracovish is a relatively new “species”, it doesn’t immediately give it a win, and Dracovish is just cool.
•Oh now they want Dragon Tail to work properly.
•I feel like Pikachu’s worrying about Dragon Tail because it doesn’t know how it’d work on him lol
•Eveyone’s like “Oh, it’s Cursed Body” but nah it’s just Thunderbolt with parahax.
•Still thinking about how everyone was sure Lucario would face Charizard lol

-No Mimey reacting to Mr. Rime
-I hate how so many Dragon Type fights inevitably end with Draco Meteor

Pretty solid follow up to the previous episode. Dragapult really did make a good fit for the title. Replaying Sword before SV atm with one on my team and it’s becoming one of favorite pseudos alongside Garchomp & Kommo-o. Mr. Rime also put in a lot of great work. They really conveyed how weirdly casual yet competitive Ash & Leon are towards one another in this with the frequent smiles and glances. Glad we’re getting Lucario out now so everyone else can get more time to shine. Also happy for Dragonite fans finally getting a solid win. Leon’s chilling remark about how is chipping away at Ash’s team was one of the anime’s best cliffhangers. Can’t wait for next episode. 10/10
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Didn't leave my review but I finally watched it subbed yesterday!!!
While this definitely wasn't as fluid as last week's, I found it still a pretty solid episode overall

- Sirfetchd is just amazing. He's probably my favourite example of a mon being pivotal to a battle even if he doesn't get wins, beating Lycanroc by a huge margin considering how well it shined in this battle. It's also a perfect Knight way, using your powers to help your friends win against the opponent and assisting them and not giving up till the bitter end!! Sirfetchd arc is probably my favourite arc of each of Ash's JN mons. I mentioned before how last episode perfectly felt like the journey of Gengar culminating with all its aspects being vividly shown. The same continues for each of Ash's JN mons
Sirfetchd showing the Knight way, perfectly using its leek and shield in a wide variety of ways, using detect brutual swing and fury cutter to the fullest potential and of course it's star assault in the next episode coming clutch to take down the beast as well. It being pivotal for Lucario and Dracovish's Ws is just the icing on the cake
Dracovish not only showing its goofy nature again by swallowing Dragapults children but awakening its ancient primal powers finally, using its vicious jaw to pull of fishious rend and ice fang and of course how beautiful Dragon rush looked in the next episode
Dragonite finally getting another W after a bit of a losing streak, taking down the pivotal Dragapult in what felt like a classic reference to the iconic Charizard seismic toss. Taking down Dragapult and wearing down Rillaboom, Leon's hardest hitters after Charizard, was such a fine performance. Love it's Draco meteor improvisation

And then Lucario. Gods y'all Lucario haters and Greninja stans are so funny. Ive still yet to see a compelling argument that "Lucario was forced down our throats" that isn't in bad faith or just plain wrong, it's funny how much people hate him. Either way forget Lucario, EACH of Ash's JN mons have better feats than Greninja

Anyway, solid episode. Leon and Ash's back and forth is just so perfect and I absolutely LOVED the dragon tail strat, such a great way to wear out his mons. Even if it looks like to be the weakest of all Ash vs Leon episodes, it still manages to be a 9.5, which is just incredible
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
It’s funny watching people complain about Lucario haters more than Lucario haters complain about it.
Highly disagree that's the case lol
Oh well it went down early so got what I wanted. Will keep laughing at that and all the comments mad about it lol
Im actually am happy it went down early, heck Id rather it didnt get a W and its contribution be wearing out Gigantamax Charizard's form simply so the narrative of each of JN's mons contributing significantly in the final battle remain while it "jobs" respectfully and allows every other mons to get a W and Pikachu or Dragonite to get 2 Ws
Considering though that we still got a nice display with Mr. Rime of its aura and that Sirfetchd still had a great contribution in the battle and being pivotal even though it didnt get a W, im happy with this too
10MV vs G max Wildfire was more satisfying anyway
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Highly disagree that's the case lol

Im actually am happy it went down early, heck Id rather it didnt get a W and its contribution be wearing out Gigantamax Charizard's form simply so the narrative of each of JN's mons contributing significantly in the final battle remain while it "jobs" respectfully and allows every other mons to get a W and Pikachu or Dragonite to get 2 Ws
Considering though that we still got a nice display with Mr. Rime of its aura and that Sirfetchd still had a great contribution in the battle and being pivotal even though it didnt get a W, im happy with this too
10MV vs G max Wildfire was more satisfying anyway
I see way more complaining about the complaining but that's just the norm around here lol. Oh well Pikachu got to deal with Charizard on its own so I'm fine. Regardless of what happens next, this is very likely the last time it battles so good riddance.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Looking back yeah Mr Rime and Dragapult really screwed Ash over, weakening Sirfetchd, Dragonite and Dracovish so they’d go down quickly after
Leon: All according to keikaku
 
Top