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Finals IV: Partner (1221)

Peluched49

Well-Known Member
Yes, if not at least use his Alola team which is the team that got him to "Champion tier" in the first place. This conversation has been dragged out forever but people aren't that keen of Ash using new(ish) Pokemon and yet somehow they're able to defeat opponents that he was never implied to be on their level before this series. It comes off as very hand wavy and messy just because they've decided he should stop becoming a loser out of the blue this series and use this as a make up.

It's so weird because I've always somewhat coped with that episode that in a way it was just a one time thing and he defeated an old companion but who would've thought it was establishing the narrative that somehow Ash is Champion tier.

And it made absolutely no sense and they haven't helped established this anymore than they did since then. We aren't privy to any new training tactics, what's he been doing differently than the last series, why is this team somehow more powerful or anything else showing progress that Ash has used his past experiences to improve this team to that level. Nothing
They decided to make him stop being a loser in XY, Journeys is just the cherry on top. Going from a trainer who suddenly became an everyday is my first day to narujesus admired and loved by every trainer is an awful transition. That came out of the nowhere. This isnt a problem that journeys started, it is something that started when the series did a soft reboot.
 

hottom3rd

Well-Known Member
I have watched this anime since the literal first day it aired when I was in grade school after school. It has been a long, long, long time and this was the most satisfying conclusion to this immortal "always a 10 year old's" story I have ever seen.

Pikachu needed to be the star, and that he was. The animation was intense and the cinderace strata backfired so hard. Cameos of all ash's companions were on point. I cannot believe it, my boy finally did it.. I am okay with the anime going in a different direction now. Ash aging, making random cameos in the future as the unbeatable one and the reigning monarch. Maybe he becomes the "goal" for a new protagonist?

I feel it's time to introduce a whole new protagonist. Ugh. My heart. I cannot express how happy I am with this. And the journeys series as a whole.

20+ years dude... it's been so long.. glad I lived to see this day.
 

Sham

Shall, I show you a true Champion time?
They decided to make him stop being a loser in XY, Journeys is just the cherry on top.
No he was still just as a much as a loser back then
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
Don't search Flint episode in sinnoh

Worst mistake of my life
It's not just Flint. Ash was always shown to be outclassed by Elite four members and Regional Champions. He was never strong enough (Until Kalos, to hold his own against them in a serious battle).

Elite four members are strong enough to hold their own against the Regional Champion.

Yes, I know about Scott mentioning BF being on par with the Elite four. However, in the subs, I believe Scott mentions that some of the BF members are able to hold their own against Elite four members.
Maybe Brandon could be an example. Ash barely won against Brandon after what 3 tries? And even in that battle; he did not beat Brandon at his best.
 

Ragnarok4

No... STILL NOT ITS OVER !!!
blame the previous series Ash post BF was already at E4 level as it was implied that those trainers are E4 equivalent and Ash was the BF champion but then that infamous Flint Episode....

.... Let's pretend that DP165 never happened
 

Jibanyan

Well-Known Member
Was the gender of May's Eevee/Glaceon ever confirmed? I think the oufit implies it is male, I know they are just clother but this is the Pokémon anime
 

Bortgreen

NEXT TIME: A new year!
tl;dr: Blame Ash's meteoric rise on the anime being allowed to do what it should have been doing for 20+ years rather than being forced into reset after reset to keep it fresh for each never generation of fans.

Its not bad writing, its a massive fault of how prior seasons had to handicap Ash as a very strong (but Not Too Strong) trainer.

Its the same reason why Leon, the only Champion with no side gig, got taken as a Tobias-tier character and not a genuine threat.
Anyway it's funny how there was a common sense if Ash won a league the anime would end and now here we are
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang

mehmeh1

Top Manager of the Dragon of Dojima
Don't search Flint episode in sinnoh

Worst mistake of my life
tbh if not for that ep, while the jump is still a lot it wouldn't be that drastic. Ash was already faring well against Agatha back in AG, and while Drake did beat him pretty badly, it was like halfway through Hoenn, unlike Flint where Ash was almost at the league. Heck while Bertha was holding back, Torterra still did pretty well.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
blame the previous series Ash post BF was already at E4 level as it was implied that those trainers are E4 equivalent and Ash was the BF champion but then that infamous Flint Episode....

.... Let's pretend that DP165 never happened
1) Ash was also destroyed by Bertha in Sinnoh.

2) Based on Paul's performance against Cynthia and Aaron and Lucian's performance against her; we can also assume that Aaron and Lucian would have done the same against him.

Scot only implies that some of the BF members are able to hold their own against the Elite four in the subs.
I don't think there was ever an outright claim that stated all the BF members are = Elite Four.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
tbh if not for that ep, while the jump is still a lot it wouldn't be that drastic. Ash was already faring well against Agatha back in AG, and while Drake did beat him pretty badly, it was like halfway through Hoenn, unlike Flint where Ash was almost at the league. Heck while Bertha was holding back, Torterra still did pretty well.
How did Ash do well against Agatha?

She wasn't fazed for a second and was in complete control. I mean sure; she didn't one shot Ash but neither did Flint.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
tl;dr: Blame Ash's meteoric rise on the anime being allowed to do what it should have been doing for 20+ years rather than being forced into reset after reset to keep it fresh for each never generation of fans.

Its not bad writing, its a massive fault of how prior seasons had to handicap Ash as a very strong (but Not Too Strong) trainer.

Its the same reason why Leon, the only Champion with no side gig, got taken as a Tobias-tier character and not a genuine threat.

This. The anime, first and foremost, is a marketing tool. Ash’s story progression from rookie trainer in Kanto to globe-trotting world champion has always taken a back seat to whatever marketing wants while keeping it just entertaining enough to keep people watching.

So yeah, I can see why it comes off as weird/rushed/bad/awkward when he suddenly leapfrogs a bunch of levels to become world champion. But it’s not the fault of the JN writing - it’s 25 years of the show catching up to them.
 

mehmeh1

Top Manager of the Dragon of Dojima
How did Ash do well against Agatha?

She wasn't fazed for a second and was in complete control. I mean sure; she didn't one shot Ash but neither did Flint.
ok "faring well" may have been too much, but he still didn't get completely stomped and got a few good hits in
 

Shego

90% Kissshipper
My stars! Ash has emerged victorious over Leon and his overwhelming Charizard. This battle has me nerve-wrecking that my heart is going to pound. Seeing Pikachu fainting like that me make think that he and Ash are going to lose. But the flashbacks of all of Ash's pokemon and his buddy somehow manage to get Pikachi back up on his feet. And proceed to take down Charizard one last time. And then, Ash and Pikachu won the whole thing. This makes me so happy that I actually proud of him. After all this years, Ash has become an ultimate trainer now. Everyone he knows, including his friends, his family, his pokemon, and his girlfriend, Serena, are so happy. This makes me want to cry in tears.
 
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