Finals IV: Partner (1221)

[Morax]

Getting an endless legacy role like this is jackpot for a VA. You'll always have money for tomorrow's bread no matter what.

Yeah, money, not respect.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

The way this is always gonna be timeless

I love when you always make a montage collage of all the cameos!!! Just add Ash's Pokemon cameos as well and it's perfect!!!

It's not just Flint. Ash was always shown to be outclassed by Elite four members and Regional Champions. He was never strong enough (Until Kalos, to hold his own against them in a serious battle).

Elite four members are strong enough to hold their own against the Regional Champion.

Yes, I know about Scott mentioning BF being on par with the Elite four. However, in the subs, I believe Scott mentions that some of the BF members are able to hold their own against Elite four members.
Maybe Brandon could be an example. Ash barely won against Brandon after what 3 tries? And even in that battle; he did not beat Brandon at his best.

Yeah, but Flint was the most egregious example. Where Ash couldn't even touch him and got One shotted. While he was still inferior to E4 members before, none were as bad as Flint schooling him. Atleast in hindsight it makes sense since JN shows Flint is probably the strongest E4 member considering he made it to the Masters 8 at one point

tbh if not for that ep, while the jump is still a lot it wouldn't be that drastic. Ash was already faring well against Agatha back in AG, and while Drake did beat him pretty badly, it was like halfway through Hoenn, unlike Flint where Ash was almost at the league. Heck while Bertha was holding back, Torterra still did pretty well.

EXACTLY!!

Yeah, money, not respect.

I think she has plenty of respect lmao even if people like you want to put her down for voicing Ash, a role she clearly loves doing

 

[Broseph08]

Holy sh*t. For now, that's all I have to say. Holy sh*t. I'll have more detailed comments later but for now, I'm just positively floored

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Ash won. I don’t care. Just gives more conformation for this to be the endgame and Amour to be canon.

 

[UltimateNinja]

So I must ask If he was using his reserves would you still feel he didn't have the right to fight the caliber of people he did?

Yes because these Pokemon were sitting in Oaks ranch all the time with the most of them not being revelant for the upcoming series. And without any noticable progress shown for them why should I asume that they're suddenly champion tier level now?

Ultimately I guess my question is; how long was Ash realistically expected to continue to somehow never get closer to any of his goals?

Maybe by having him progress over a long period of time? Of course it couldn't work in one full 130 episodes series with that pacing. Something like that could've needed two full series to properly work and for it to feel natural. So yes thats more or less the fault of the earlier series for not having them let Ash progress. Does that excuse JN for suddenly overpowering Ash out of the blue? Nope, it's still bad writing so the series trying to effectively make Ash the world champion was doomed from the start.

And no I don't want to spoil his victory or cease the current hype around that. I've praised the fight and him finally becoming the world champion early today but why I should ignore all those problems that Journeys caused in these three years?

 

[Almighty Zard]

I don't know why Ash having a new team matters in this case as a result; if Ash was allowed to be as effective of a trainer as his progression implies on a macro level he should have no trouble taking any Pokemon and making them good. That's what he generally does, and its cool to see.

A friend of mine who watches but isn't an active member here, said something along those lines, that maybe it's Ash's growth as a trainer is why this team came out looking so strong because he has been able to train them more effectively due to himself growing as a trainer in skill.

Of course, Dragonite, Gengar and Om Nom Nom (if anyone's got a better nickname go for it, that's what it shall be called by me) were all shown to be pretty strong when obtained (and fully evolved/uncapable), so Riolu and Farfetch'd were the only ones who had to be raised while training, and it didn't take them long to catch up with the others as a result.

Granted I also personally feel that Ash not fighting Team Rocket most of the time probably helped too, That was an issue I had with alot of the earlier saga's because besides Ash being reset constantly, most of his training came from beating up the same pokemon nearly every episode, how are you really supposed to grow by beating up the same pokemon for most of the region's run? This series Team Rocket has been sidelined more than ever, and they don't even have true consistent partners for Ash to thrash either, Ash was battling actual other trainers for the most part, that could be another reason why he got so strong, even if it felt rushed.

At the end of the day though, we can discuss this all we want but every saga's got it's flaws, this one is no exception.

I also finally got around to watching it, and as much as Charizard is my favorite pokemon, nothing gave me greater joy than seeing Leon's go down.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

The way this is always gonna be timeless

I really wish we could have gotten an actual reaction from Gary over this.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591069985971277826

This episode will forever be GOATED for this alone

 

[AJ97]

I love when you always make a montage collage of all the cameos!!! Just add Ash's Pokemon cameos as well and it's perfect!!!

Yeah, but Flint was the most egregious example. Where Ash couldn't even touch him and got One shotted. While he was still inferior to E4 members before, none were as bad as Flint schooling him. Atleast in hindsight it makes sense since JN shows Flint is probably the strongest E4 member considering he made it to the Masters 8 at one point

EXACTLY!!

I think she has plenty of respect lmao even if people like you want to put her down for voicing Ash, a role she clearly loves doing

That's because Flint is the first Full serious battle we see between Ash vs an Elite four member.
Even Drake absolutely destroys Ash in Sinnoh. The same goes for Agatha in Kanto and even Bertha in Sinnoh.

The Flint battle is often emphasized because of the former's greater relevance to the plot.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

That's because Flint is the first Full serious battle we see between Ash vs an Elite four member.
Even Drake absolutely destroys Ash in Sinnoh. The same goes for Agatha in Kanto and even Bertha in Sinnoh.

The Flint battle is often emphasized because of the former's greater relevance to the plot.

Drake and Agatha still didn't feel as much of a sweep as Flint was. They were clearly superior trainers who would absolutely win against Ash yes, but the not getting a single scratch with the strongest move and instant one hit KOing was too much

 

[Shego]

Now that Ash became a new monarch, what do you think he'll do next?

 

[vondecayle]

Welp, this thread went from celebration to salt. Everything has already been discussed over and over and some sound like a broken record. Not reading lol

 

[ShuckFam]

That ending was violent! I thought Charizard was dead for a second. Pikachu had some kind of secondary concussion after his headbutt, he lost his memory.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Cynthia and Diantha are official Ash companions now.

I completly approve Cynthia being promoted to companion.

"It's not bad writing to have Spider-man punch out Galactus, it was all those thousands of stories that showed him not being able to do that that were bad writing".

Come on, man. Ignoring a character's entire history and just having them do what you want them to do is not good writing.
Would it be bad writing if Masato shows up next episode and sweeps Satoshi's entire team with his starter, or would that also just be good writing that ignores all the bad writing from earlier series that failed to establish that he should be able to do this by now?

It's not that I disagree or anything - I think you have a point here - but Spider-man ain't a good example, SPECIALLY after One More Day, which makes Eternatus "gauge refresh" feels top tier writting

But on that topic, now I just remember an old story of Spider-man having to hold his own against one of Galactus' heralds. I think his english was Fire Lord or something...

 

[pardusco]

It was so obvious that he was gonna win, I don't know how anyone is shocked lol. Anyways, I can't wait to see this series finally come to an end.

 

[Red and Blue]

The scene with Ash's past Pokemon supporting Pikachu in spirit brought tears to my eyes. Beautiful moment for the entire franchise

 

[STICKTOPIA]

I’m happy to see the old characters like misty, Brock, May, and max. I’m also glad to see his old Pokémon like butterfree.

I thought Leon never lost a battle before but he lost to Sonia.

Wow I’m here wondering how pikachu is gonna deal with cinderace and pikachu took it out like it was nothing lol.

 

[vondecayle]

That ending was violent! I thought Charizard was dead for a second. Pikachu had some kind of secondary concussion after his headbutt, he lost his memory.

They went hard with that, felt like I was watching another anime!

 

[ShuckFam]

The Morpeko scenes were pretty cute and funny. I liked how he looked in the darumaka outfit. Team rocket have honestly been Ash's best supporters...

 

[Dephender]

It's not that I disagree or anything - I think you have a point here - but Spider-man ain't a good example, SPECIALLY after One More Day, which makes Eternatus "gauge refresh" feels top tier writting

That's where I dropped Spidey, yep.