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Finals IV: Partner (1221)

Niormon

Well-Known Member
Dephender woke up and decided to be savage today.
His opinion is only just that, opinions what he says doesn't that #1 Ash was trending on twitter #2 People where happy to become a champion ( even the English VAs were happy) and as far as I know that was victory writers and animators deserve an admins words on the episode aren't be all end all, no offensive to dephender, just giving my own opinion on this.

edit also people need to stop thinking Goh is companion lol HE IS NOT ONE! he has his own stuff going on right now
 
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Kazuniya

how cute~
Probably because those are the companions who watched Ash win live/on TV and then congratulated Ash on his victory.

Goh didn't watch the finals, and he doesn't even know the outcome of the battle yet because he's doing Project Mew at the same time, so it wouldn't make sense to include him there with other companions.

I'm sure Goh will give his own congratulations once he meets up/talks with Ash again. :)
 

AARTX

Dead inside…
I like that after the match, Leon is the one that wants to keep battling to be "stronger" whereas Ash just responds with him just wanting to have "more battles" instead of the usual "battling to be motto motto tsuyoku" (its also Leon who says his "let’s battle again" catchphrase)

Looks like even Ash knows that he has peaked XD.
 
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Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
I really how people felt a potential victory wouldn't be legitimate because Ash had access to all three trump cards but here we all are celebrating Ash's victory. It just goes to show just well this episode was executed. Ash and Pikachu's determination was at its peak thanks to the friends on their side cheering them on. They really made it feel like this victory was earned.
 

Jikkle

Volcano Trainer
Watching the episode again after the dust has settled a few more thoughts I had.

Cinderace and Mega Lucario should've been the penultimate battle. Felt like the writers forced the whole Eternatus thing to make the battle "special" event like they did with the Tapu's in SM and thus they were able to cram in G-Max Pikachu to throw everything possible in the battle.

I liked how they presented Leon in a way that he was completely confident in his victory but not in an arrogant way.

I also liked how as the battle progressed he got more and more absorbed into just the pure joy of the battle. It's not that he didn't enjoy battling but it felt like he became less about taking on a challenger and more just becoming a childlike joy and excitement of the battle.

It wasn't just the animation was great in this episode the cinematography was great as well. Now I'm no film expert but I thought all the angles of the action were really well done and added to the feeling of epicness of the battle.

On that note I loved the angle of Leon from behind when Ash was announced as winner. You could see his body language start from the tension of the battle, disbelief in losing, and finally acceptance of the loss all in a matter of seconds. Not to mention the symbolism of his hat which is his crown just being kinda laying flat on the ground when previously when he threw it off the crown was pointing straight up.

Finally I liked how the battle also lit a fire in Diantha to go along with the fire it lit under Cynthia earlier. Felt like the passion for battling was dull for all these champions and Ash really ignited that passion in them with his passion for battling and his Pokemon.
 

pickapika

Well-Known Member
soundtrack and visuals just about drag it across the finish line. Legitmately might be the best use of both in the anime in years, the soundtrack use might be goated actually. Brining back th ekanto theme was a great touch.

doesn't really feel like an epic conclusion tho. THe build-up left lots to be desired and the resolution feels like an after thought. Pikachu's friends were a nice touch, but the arbiatrarily chosen cameos for ash really made it feel fake. And it doesn't help that leon is barely a character. You're putting the masala them, and yet you have these 2-non kanto sides in the back with one of them(cleo) compeltely dropping their established mannerisms to become replaceeable side character #100. They put no thought into how Ash's friends" would intergrate and contribute. It was pure lazy, heeeey these guys were in the anime before! and at this stage, for this project? That's just pathetic.

Compunding things is Leon hogging a bunch of screen-time despite, again, having basically nothing. That he lost the first battle we've been seeing flashes of is nice, but the show treats leon and ash as this great well developed character bond when they're pratcically strangers and leon has had nothing to do with 90% of ash's journey or the vast majoruty of his character developoment.

There was a moment where I thought that pikachu was dreaming and he'd actually lost(now that would have been interesting and would explain why the ref didn't call the amtch when he had fallen down), but i suppose that was a little too ambitious.

Also these cameos brings attention to all the wasted potential here. For example, Team Rocket hasn't developed, and their dialogue throughout is honestly just grating.

the action of the 1 v 1 was phenomenal and ash actually seemed like a skilled trainer for once. A shame they couldn't do this for more than flashes.

In a vaccum, there were nice touches, but this doesn't feel like the culmantion of a multi-season journey, it feels like a glorified special episode, and that's really all on how badly all this was set-up.

I'm going to pretend emeratus didn't happen because i don't want to give this episode of all the episodes a bad grade, but..yeah, this was pretty lame
 
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KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
It's gonna be weird seeing Ash lose later on seeing as how he's the current world champion.
Not really. A lot of us had this feeling when he won Alola but lost to opponents like Bea afterwards. It’s not an official match to transfer titles, and if Ash does continue into S/V, he’ll just use a different team. Losing with a different team doesn’t diminish the feats of the former one.

There’s no official rule saying a Champion can’t reset and make new teams with different Pokémon from the ground up.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
So does this mean that Ash was holding his companions back because why have they all achieved great things after dumping him? Because this episode confirms that’s the “Princess of Hoenn” thing was indeed her.


All of them yes
To be fair, May was already confirmed to be the Princess of Hoenn long before Journeys, ever since at least her DP return.

Dawn called May the P.o.H. when first meeting her.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Not really. A lot of us had this feeling when he won Alola but lost to opponents like Bea afterwards. It’s not an official match to transfer titles, and if Ash does continue into S/V, he’ll just use a different team. Losing with a different team doesn’t diminish the feats of the former one.

at this point to me it's not so much about him using new pokemon, but rather how Pikachu is handled going forward, cause it would be pretty stupid if the writers tried to reset it again after how intense it's showing here was, especially considering how OP Leon's Charizard was and what it was capable of doing, As well as the OP ability Bunny Rabbit.

After all most haven't forgotten how stupid the unova transition was, but then again Pikachu's only notable sinnoh league feats were beating Paul's Froslass and drawing with Latios, and even if the latter was a legendary the fighting was no where near as intense and emotional as this battle was.

So that's why to me at least, Pikachu's handling is all that matters going forward, new blood is fair game.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
I don't think he has to. He can simply abstain from participating again and the next M8 winner will be the new Monarch.
To be fair, I don’t think the PWC and Alola League should be compared in this manner.

The Leagues have never completely reflected how they are done in the games, so while Alola in the games has the champ do title defense matches, The Alola league in the anime is a tournament. So there nah not even be title matches for it. At least not yet.

The PWC however is entirely an anime original thing not based on any game league or tournament. It has its own rules, and since we clearly saw Leon do title defense matches throughout JN, we know they exist in-universe. So naturally, with Ash as the new monarch, we can safely assume he would do the same thing.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
at this point to me it's not so much about him using new pokemon, but rather how Pikachu is handled going forward, cause it would be pretty stupid if the writers tried to reset it again after how intense it's showing here was, especially considering how OP Leon's Charizard was and what it was capable of doing, As well as the OP ability Bunny Rabbit.
Oh absolutely in this regard, Pikachus consistency staying is a different story.
After all most haven't forgotten how stupid the unova transition was, but then again Pikachu's only notable sinnoh league feats were beating Paul's Froslass and drawing with Latios, and even if the latter was a legendary the fighting was no where near as intense and emotional as this battle was.
In fairness to Unova, that transition in my opinion was the easiest to stomach since it was a legendary that was causing the reset rather than some random Team Rocket invention or random episode plot that causes Pikachus power to fluctuate, so it comes across as more “justified “.

Definitely still stupid, but probably the easiest reset that’s not so ridiculous.

@KukuiFanatic501 i look forward to your thoughts on my post but um, you really shouldn't be multi-posting, the edit button is there for a reason, not trying to be mean or anything by this.
Oh no, you weren’t at all, that’s my bad. For once I decided to read through every page lol so I’m responding to different things that I find across the pages.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Oh absolutely in this regard, Pikachus consistency staying is a different story.

Agreed.

In fairness to Unova, that transition in my opinion was the easiest to stomach since it was a legendary that was causing the reset rather than some random Team Rocket invention or random episode plot that causes Pikachus power to fluctuate, so it comes across as more “justified “.

Definitely still stupid, but probably the easiest reset that’s not so ridiculous..

My take on why it happened still remains, the fact that the first two unova games were cut off from the rest of the series, forcing players to only use new pokemon until post game as if trying to recapture the feeling of the very first ones, which is why Ash and Pikachu got reset so bad as if doing the same, since Ash did act immature at times early on like in excadrill's debut episode in addition to Pikachu getting reset.

That said I do agree that Zekrom did more than take away Pikachu's electricity, I still personally feel it was abit much though, but your opinion isn't wrong either, maybe it was abit of both?

Yeah i was not trying to be rude there, I understand that sometimes it can be hard to find posts.
 
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