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Finals IV: Partner (1221)

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I'm sure the tournament will be more interesting to new/returning watchers than the usual critical PAD user
It absolutely has been for them!! Now sure, they are just watching those episodes and not the buildup so may not be the best judges but they had nothing but insane hype and praise for all the episodes, and a desire to watch the anime again where they left off
And I do have a feeling for them the buildup and all might be more satisfying.
A) This series will definitely be better to binge watch instead
B) Their hypes and expectations won't be as high as ours were
C) Not getting caught up in fandom wars and leaks and just watching the episode for themselves will probably leave a positive impact
 

Bortgreen

NEXT TIME: A new year!
It absolutely has been for them!! Now sure, they are just watching those episodes and not the buildup so may not be the best judges but they had nothing but insane hype and praise for all the episodes, and a desire to watch the anime again where they left off
And I do have a feeling for them the buildup and all might be more satisfying.
A) This series will definitely be better to binge watch instead
B) Their hypes and expectations won't be as high as ours were
C) Not getting caught up in fandom wars and leaks and just watching the episode for themselves will probably leave a positive impact
I feel like the series format works better on watching the episodes in a faster pace but not exactly binge watching either
Since it has that episodic feel of the adventure of the day
Back when I stopped watching for some months I had more fun watching one or two episodes daily when catching up
Nostalgia kicked in while seeing this image. Isnt there are knuckle max move too, similar to this
Cinderace itself reminds me a lot of Inazuma Eleven, I even picked it on Sword over my original choice(Sobble) because of it
 

Kazuniya

how cute~
It has its own rules, and since we clearly saw Leon do title defense matches throughout JN, we know they exist in-universe. So naturally, with Ash as the new monarch, we can safely assume he would do the same thing.
I don't agree with this.

First of all, there's nothing saying Ash *has* to defend his title. And I don't think a trainer can be forced to defend their title in the first place.

Second of all, Ash's goal was never to become the Monarch nor do I think he has much interest in defending that title (Ash doesn't care about those kinds of things). Ash's goal and reason for participating in the PWC in the first place was to fight Leon and potentially defeat him. That goal has now been fulfilled, and Ash got the winner's trophy to commemorate that victory. That's why I don't see Ash partaking in the PWC for the second time, and I think he'd rather move on to something new than redoing the PWC again and again.
 
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I hate JN but this episode was peak. You’ll know what you gotta do to top this.
What was the move that Pikachu was using in the final clash? It was like a Blaze-esteque electric type Thunderbolt
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with this.

First of all, there's nothing saying Ash *has* to defend his title. And I don't think a trainer can be forced to defend their title in the first place.
Cynthia did this in DP however. We saw at least 2 or so title defense matches at that time. She had one with Aaron and another with Flint in the last episode of DP (and clearly this is a defense match of the title since the Sinnoh league wasn’t happening yet in either case).

Granted, it’s not the PWC, but the point I’m making still stands. We know title defending matches exist in-universe, so it would feel pretty awkward to have them for regional champions but not the world champion, especially if anyone around the world can challenge Ash for the title at any time and not have him tied to a specific region (so he can still journey and do whatever he wishes but still battle).

And naturally, being forced to defend the title whenever the tournament isn’t happening should be a thing as it gives people opportunity to claim it.

And from a story point of view it can make for an interesting plot depending on how it’s done. For instance, in shows like Beyblade Burst, Valt Aoi spent a lot of his time as champion doing title matches in Turbo, allowing us to see old characters make returns to fight him. They could do the same here with Ash and have characters return again or have characters that didn’t participate in the PWC this time come back for official battles, like Wallace, Paul, Brandon, Palmer, maybe even Hop once he develops his strength more, etc etc.
Second of all, Ash's goal was never to become the Monarch nor do I think he has much interest in defending that title (Ash doesn't care about those kinds of things).
I never disagreed. My earlier point was just explaining that the PWC is an anime original concept and not something adapted from the games, so it can have its own rules to make title matches unlike leagues where the leagues in the anime aren’t 1:1 with leagues in the games but still follow a clear set of rules in some capacity like the games.
Ash's goal and reason for participating in the PWC in the first place was to fight Leon and potentially defeat him. That goal has now been fulfilled, and Ash got the winner's trophy to commemorate that victory. That's why I don't see Ash partaking in the PWC for the second time, and I think he'd rather move on to something new than redoing the PWC again and again.
I somewhat don’t agree with this. Like I said, I never disagreed on Ash having the PWC as a goal he was interested in from the get go, we know he didn’t. And we know he entered to face Leon.

That said, I don’t exactly see why Ash as he is now would lose interest in doing the PWC again. Unlike the leagues which are region specific tournaments, the PWC isnt tied to any specific place. It’s a worldwide competition, so Ash doesn’t have to return to any place to partake in it. He can go wherever he wants at any time, Paldea, any new region, and still participate.

And for all intents and purposes, the PWC would in fact be something new each time, since it would include every new region that’s added in each Gen. For instance, if Ash continues on to Paldea, and they recycle the PWC again, they can include Paldea in the championships now. And that alone offers up a lot of new stuff to change the game up. Terastallizing as a new mechanic, new Pokémon, new trainers, new strategies with the added mechanic, and ofc a new champion that could potentially be even more of a threat than Leon was. Ash incorporating terastallizing into his teams, bringing countless different possible variations with type changing, especially if deciding to use reserves that time around.

Not to mention evolving the PWC to be better developed this time to learn from JNs mistakes.

And then? Rinse and repeat this formula. The region from Gen 10 and their new mechanic, Gen 11, etc.

As long as Pokémon continues with a new gen, theoretically, the PWC can literally incorporate something new each and every time as it’s that flexible of a goal.

Of course I’m not suggesting the PWC should stay forever and just not ever make something new up, but the PWC most definitely has the potential to overstay it’s welcome more than once.
 

Bortgreen

NEXT TIME: A new year!
I hate JN but this episode was peak. You’ll know what you gotta do to top this.
What was the move that Pikachu was using in the final clash? It was like a Blaze-esteque electric type Thunderbolt
It really looked like Pika Papow to me, it makes sense with the context
But it was commanded like Thunderbolt
That move isn't physical though, but Fire Blast isn't either
 

nuzamaki90

Well-Known Member
Took time out to finally rewatch this episode for the 1000th time, but this time from the beginning of the battle to the end. Four episodes of straight action, tension, bravado, emotion, and everything you would hope for in the proclaimed “biggest battle in history”. Ash Vs Leon, the battle that I can finally declare as my favorite battle in the entire show, thoroughly surpassing my previous; Ash VS Paul. As a fan of this show since 1998, growing up in the streets of New York during the peak of Pokemania, I gotta say it’s been a blessed journey that I will forever cherish for the rest of my life.

This was THE episode for me, the best episode out of all 1000+ episodes of the anime. I am so immensely proud of Ash and Pikachu, and witnessing the whole world both in the show and real life, take part in congratulating him on his much deserved victory is surreal. I couldn’t have asked for a better culmination of this 10 year old boy’s 25 year story.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?

pickapika

Well-Known Member
After all most haven't forgotten how stupid the unova transition was, but then again Pikachu's only notable sinnoh league feats were beating Paul's Froslass and drawing with Latios, and even if the latter was a legendary the fighting was no where near as intense and emotional as this battle was.
People really need to distinguish between trainer and pokemon here. Pikachu, after having tanked a shitton of damage/recoil vs multiple pokemon(after aggron lowered its defenses), was matching Paul's strongest pokemon until Ash basically forfeitted the battle.

Pikachu's perfomance vs Paul was strong even if Ash used him badly. Problem with ash mons is ash varies from idiot to genius so strong mons will often be made to look pathetic(torterra) and weak ones will be made to look strong(torkoal) if you just go by the final outcome.

Pika-Elekid is a pretty good example of this. In actuality Pikachu was able to tank signifcantly more damage than an amped elekid but because it's draw you have people assuming equality.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
People really need to distinguish between trainer and pokemon here. Pikachu, after having tanked a shitton of damage/recoil vs multiple pokemon(after aggron lowered its defenses), was matching Paul's strongest pokemon until Ash basically forfeitted the battle.

Pikachu's perfomance vs Paul was strong even if Ash used him badly. Problem with ash mons is ash varies from idiot to genius so strong mons will often be made to look pathetic(torterra) and weak ones will be made to look strong(torkoal) if you just go by the final outcome.

Pika-Elekid is a pretty good example of this. In actuality Pikachu was able to tank signifcantly more damage than an amped elekid but because it's draw you have people assuming equality.

Pikachu still put in alot more effort here than back then, to the point where there is no excuse to reset Pikachu like what unova did ever again.
 
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Ryker101

Well-Known Member
Few more random things
- At 17 matchups this is officially the most we’ve gotten in a full battle, surpassing Ash vs Paul (14) and Kukui/Cynthia (13)
- Both of Dracovish’s KOs were against grass types using dragon rush
- Excluding the clipshow against Diantha, all of Rillaboom’s KOs have been from acrobatics (chesnaught, goodra, dragonite, sirfetchd)
- Here Ash switched out his pokemon on 3 occasions, which is tied with Paul (SL) for the most he’s done in one battle
- Another similarity to Ash vs Cynthia is his opponent’s penultimate pokemon dynamaxes and he defeats their ace in base form
- This is the only battle where Leon’s Charizard didn’t get a single KO
- Generally speaking, Ash and Leon have faced similar opponents throughout the PWC: Both beat Raihan, a dragon-type M8 member outside of M8 (Lance/Iris), Flint/Volkner depending on who matched their starter’s type, Leon fought Alain whilst Ash beat Steven, lastly a female champion in semis who can mega evolve their ace

Overall loved this fight and can’t wait to rewatch it sometime
 

doofinc

get rillaboomed
Pretty cool that this finale happened literally 1 week before Scarlet/Violet tbh. Maxes out the hype for Pokemon right when needed and I'm locked in now for Scarlet/Violet.

They also didn't do the commercial break until like 3/4 through of the episode. They knew they couldn't interrupt the battle for as long as possible and thank god they kept as much of it together as possible.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Ok so finally my review but before of that, a small review of the previous 3 episodes:

-Overall a very solid battle with switching Pokemon, good strategies, good performance of most Pokemon and also good cameos. Dragon tail strategy may be how diantha lost so badly in the end. Also finally 10MV was not a guaranteed win, but it was strong enough to get Charizard outside of Gmax.

Now for the episode: PEAK POKEMON ANIME

The weakest part was obviously Pikachu vs Cinderace which was very short, but the rest of the episode is so good that I don't care.
Pikachu vs Charizard has the best animation since Pikachu vs Tapu Koko, it was such an intense Battle from start to finish, it had cameos of every Ash's friends + Delia, Oak, Kukui, Burnet and Lei/Reí. It also has a lot of small details like Todd Snap during a scene, another scene that is reminiscent of the Pikachu vs Charizard from the opening, Pikachu climbing rocks like he did against Grant and Ash's exercises before the final Battle like those he did in XYZ during the episode where Serena crossdresses like Ash.

But obviously the best part is when Pikachu faints, but it activates Ash's tenacity skill from Pokemon Masters and remembers the lines that Ash said when they met for the first time, and then he see all his friends, all of Ash's Pokemon during the 9 regions he travelled. That moment is so strong for the people who watched this anime from 25 years that I cannot blame the people who cried with it (including me in my re watch), it was absolutely beautiful.
And the final Clash between (B) Thunderbolt and Flare Blast has to be the best animated scene in the entire Pokemon Anime.

An absolute 11/10 episode, and the amount of happiness that I have seen in all social media about this battle is enough for me to consider this battle the best in the entire anime. Not even Kukui or Paul can match that nowadays.
 
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