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Finals IV: Partner (1221)

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
So does this mean that Ash was holding his companions back because why have they all achieved great things after dumping him? Because this episode confirms that’s the “Princess of Hoenn” thing was indeed her.


All of them yes
To be fair, May was already confirmed to be the Princess of Hoenn long before Journeys, ever since at least her DP return.

Dawn called May the P.o.H. when first meeting her.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Not really. A lot of us had this feeling when he won Alola but lost to opponents like Bea afterwards. It’s not an official match to transfer titles, and if Ash does continue into S/V, he’ll just use a different team. Losing with a different team doesn’t diminish the feats of the former one.

at this point to me it's not so much about him using new pokemon, but rather how Pikachu is handled going forward, cause it would be pretty stupid if the writers tried to reset it again after how intense it's showing here was, especially considering how OP Leon's Charizard was and what it was capable of doing, As well as the OP ability Bunny Rabbit.

After all most haven't forgotten how stupid the unova transition was, but then again Pikachu's only notable sinnoh league feats were beating Paul's Froslass and drawing with Latios, and even if the latter was a legendary the fighting was no where near as intense and emotional as this battle was.

So that's why to me at least, Pikachu's handling is all that matters going forward, new blood is fair game.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
I don't think he has to. He can simply abstain from participating again and the next M8 winner will be the new Monarch.
To be fair, I don’t think the PWC and Alola League should be compared in this manner.

The Leagues have never completely reflected how they are done in the games, so while Alola in the games has the champ do title defense matches, The Alola league in the anime is a tournament. So there nah not even be title matches for it. At least not yet.

The PWC however is entirely an anime original thing not based on any game league or tournament. It has its own rules, and since we clearly saw Leon do title defense matches throughout JN, we know they exist in-universe. So naturally, with Ash as the new monarch, we can safely assume he would do the same thing.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
at this point to me it's not so much about him using new pokemon, but rather how Pikachu is handled going forward, cause it would be pretty stupid if the writers tried to reset it again after how intense it's showing here was, especially considering how OP Leon's Charizard was and what it was capable of doing, As well as the OP ability Bunny Rabbit.
Oh absolutely in this regard, Pikachus consistency staying is a different story.
After all most haven't forgotten how stupid the unova transition was, but then again Pikachu's only notable sinnoh league feats were beating Paul's Froslass and drawing with Latios, and even if the latter was a legendary the fighting was no where near as intense and emotional as this battle was.
In fairness to Unova, that transition in my opinion was the easiest to stomach since it was a legendary that was causing the reset rather than some random Team Rocket invention or random episode plot that causes Pikachus power to fluctuate, so it comes across as more “justified “.

Definitely still stupid, but probably the easiest reset that’s not so ridiculous.

@KukuiFanatic501 i look forward to your thoughts on my post but um, you really shouldn't be multi-posting, the edit button is there for a reason, not trying to be mean or anything by this.
Oh no, you weren’t at all, that’s my bad. For once I decided to read through every page lol so I’m responding to different things that I find across the pages.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Oh absolutely in this regard, Pikachus consistency staying is a different story.

Agreed.

In fairness to Unova, that transition in my opinion was the easiest to stomach since it was a legendary that was causing the reset rather than some random Team Rocket invention or random episode plot that causes Pikachus power to fluctuate, so it comes across as more “justified “.

Definitely still stupid, but probably the easiest reset that’s not so ridiculous..

My take on why it happened still remains, the fact that the first two unova games were cut off from the rest of the series, forcing players to only use new pokemon until post game as if trying to recapture the feeling of the very first ones, which is why Ash and Pikachu got reset so bad as if doing the same, since Ash did act immature at times early on like in excadrill's debut episode in addition to Pikachu getting reset.

That said I do agree that Zekrom did more than take away Pikachu's electricity, I still personally feel it was abit much though, but your opinion isn't wrong either, maybe it was abit of both?

Yeah i was not trying to be rude there, I understand that sometimes it can be hard to find posts.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I'm sure the tournament will be more interesting to new/returning watchers than the usual critical PAD user
It absolutely has been for them!! Now sure, they are just watching those episodes and not the buildup so may not be the best judges but they had nothing but insane hype and praise for all the episodes, and a desire to watch the anime again where they left off
And I do have a feeling for them the buildup and all might be more satisfying.
A) This series will definitely be better to binge watch instead
B) Their hypes and expectations won't be as high as ours were
C) Not getting caught up in fandom wars and leaks and just watching the episode for themselves will probably leave a positive impact
 

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
It absolutely has been for them!! Now sure, they are just watching those episodes and not the buildup so may not be the best judges but they had nothing but insane hype and praise for all the episodes, and a desire to watch the anime again where they left off
And I do have a feeling for them the buildup and all might be more satisfying.
A) This series will definitely be better to binge watch instead
B) Their hypes and expectations won't be as high as ours were
C) Not getting caught up in fandom wars and leaks and just watching the episode for themselves will probably leave a positive impact
I feel like the series format works better on watching the episodes in a faster pace but not exactly binge watching either
Since it has that episodic feel of the adventure of the day
Back when I stopped watching for some months I had more fun watching one or two episodes daily when catching up
Nostalgia kicked in while seeing this image. Isnt there are knuckle max move too, similar to this
Cinderace itself reminds me a lot of Inazuma Eleven, I even picked it on Sword over my original choice(Sobble) because of it
 

Kazuniya

read/watch dungeon meshi
It has its own rules, and since we clearly saw Leon do title defense matches throughout JN, we know they exist in-universe. So naturally, with Ash as the new monarch, we can safely assume he would do the same thing.
I don't agree with this.

First of all, there's nothing saying Ash *has* to defend his title. And I don't think a trainer can be forced to defend their title in the first place.

Second of all, Ash's goal was never to become the Monarch nor do I think he has much interest in defending that title (Ash doesn't care about those kinds of things). Ash's goal and reason for participating in the PWC in the first place was to fight Leon and potentially defeat him. That goal has now been fulfilled, and Ash got the winner's trophy to commemorate that victory. That's why I don't see Ash partaking in the PWC for the second time, and I think he'd rather move on to something new than redoing the PWC again and again.
 
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I hate JN but this episode was peak. You’ll know what you gotta do to top this.
What was the move that Pikachu was using in the final clash? It was like a Blaze-esteque electric type Thunderbolt
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with this.

First of all, there's nothing saying Ash *has* to defend his title. And I don't think a trainer can be forced to defend their title in the first place.
Cynthia did this in DP however. We saw at least 2 or so title defense matches at that time. She had one with Aaron and another with Flint in the last episode of DP (and clearly this is a defense match of the title since the Sinnoh league wasn’t happening yet in either case).

Granted, it’s not the PWC, but the point I’m making still stands. We know title defending matches exist in-universe, so it would feel pretty awkward to have them for regional champions but not the world champion, especially if anyone around the world can challenge Ash for the title at any time and not have him tied to a specific region (so he can still journey and do whatever he wishes but still battle).

And naturally, being forced to defend the title whenever the tournament isn’t happening should be a thing as it gives people opportunity to claim it.

And from a story point of view it can make for an interesting plot depending on how it’s done. For instance, in shows like Beyblade Burst, Valt Aoi spent a lot of his time as champion doing title matches in Turbo, allowing us to see old characters make returns to fight him. They could do the same here with Ash and have characters return again or have characters that didn’t participate in the PWC this time come back for official battles, like Wallace, Paul, Brandon, Palmer, maybe even Hop once he develops his strength more, etc etc.
Second of all, Ash's goal was never to become the Monarch nor do I think he has much interest in defending that title (Ash doesn't care about those kinds of things).
I never disagreed. My earlier point was just explaining that the PWC is an anime original concept and not something adapted from the games, so it can have its own rules to make title matches unlike leagues where the leagues in the anime aren’t 1:1 with leagues in the games but still follow a clear set of rules in some capacity like the games.
Ash's goal and reason for participating in the PWC in the first place was to fight Leon and potentially defeat him. That goal has now been fulfilled, and Ash got the winner's trophy to commemorate that victory. That's why I don't see Ash partaking in the PWC for the second time, and I think he'd rather move on to something new than redoing the PWC again and again.
I somewhat don’t agree with this. Like I said, I never disagreed on Ash having the PWC as a goal he was interested in from the get go, we know he didn’t. And we know he entered to face Leon.

That said, I don’t exactly see why Ash as he is now would lose interest in doing the PWC again. Unlike the leagues which are region specific tournaments, the PWC isnt tied to any specific place. It’s a worldwide competition, so Ash doesn’t have to return to any place to partake in it. He can go wherever he wants at any time, Paldea, any new region, and still participate.

And for all intents and purposes, the PWC would in fact be something new each time, since it would include every new region that’s added in each Gen. For instance, if Ash continues on to Paldea, and they recycle the PWC again, they can include Paldea in the championships now. And that alone offers up a lot of new stuff to change the game up. Terastallizing as a new mechanic, new Pokémon, new trainers, new strategies with the added mechanic, and ofc a new champion that could potentially be even more of a threat than Leon was. Ash incorporating terastallizing into his teams, bringing countless different possible variations with type changing, especially if deciding to use reserves that time around.

Not to mention evolving the PWC to be better developed this time to learn from JNs mistakes.

And then? Rinse and repeat this formula. The region from Gen 10 and their new mechanic, Gen 11, etc.

As long as Pokémon continues with a new gen, theoretically, the PWC can literally incorporate something new each and every time as it’s that flexible of a goal.

Of course I’m not suggesting the PWC should stay forever and just not ever make something new up, but the PWC most definitely has the potential to overstay it’s welcome more than once.
 

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
I hate JN but this episode was peak. You’ll know what you gotta do to top this.
What was the move that Pikachu was using in the final clash? It was like a Blaze-esteque electric type Thunderbolt
It really looked like Pika Papow to me, it makes sense with the context
But it was commanded like Thunderbolt
That move isn't physical though, but Fire Blast isn't either
 

nuzamaki90

Well-Known Member
Took time out to finally rewatch this episode for the 1000th time, but this time from the beginning of the battle to the end. Four episodes of straight action, tension, bravado, emotion, and everything you would hope for in the proclaimed “biggest battle in history”. Ash Vs Leon, the battle that I can finally declare as my favorite battle in the entire show, thoroughly surpassing my previous; Ash VS Paul. As a fan of this show since 1998, growing up in the streets of New York during the peak of Pokemania, I gotta say it’s been a blessed journey that I will forever cherish for the rest of my life.

This was THE episode for me, the best episode out of all 1000+ episodes of the anime. I am so immensely proud of Ash and Pikachu, and witnessing the whole world both in the show and real life, take part in congratulating him on his much deserved victory is surreal. I couldn’t have asked for a better culmination of this 10 year old boy’s 25 year story.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?

pickapika

Well-Known Member
After all most haven't forgotten how stupid the unova transition was, but then again Pikachu's only notable sinnoh league feats were beating Paul's Froslass and drawing with Latios, and even if the latter was a legendary the fighting was no where near as intense and emotional as this battle was.
People really need to distinguish between trainer and pokemon here. Pikachu, after having tanked a shitton of damage/recoil vs multiple pokemon(after aggron lowered its defenses), was matching Paul's strongest pokemon until Ash basically forfeitted the battle.

Pikachu's perfomance vs Paul was strong even if Ash used him badly. Problem with ash mons is ash varies from idiot to genius so strong mons will often be made to look pathetic(torterra) and weak ones will be made to look strong(torkoal) if you just go by the final outcome.

Pika-Elekid is a pretty good example of this. In actuality Pikachu was able to tank signifcantly more damage than an amped elekid but because it's draw you have people assuming equality.
 
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