Finals IV: Partner (1221)

[Panky..]

Panky! You haven't even commented on the JN132 finale yet, but luckily I've already written the criticism for it for you

Pikachu was playing too defensively for most of the battle, and Charizard took virtually no damage until Pikachu's headbutt on it

Sound in line with what you'd write about it?

Well I can't wait to see what Panky thinks of the battle too. He always hits the nail IMO.

You're going to deny he won with the power of Friendship? A good executed Power of Friendship but still.

Moved to the correct thread to avoid derailing that one.

Unlike some people who shill for things 24/7 (regardless of the quality), I've been pretty busy with life and other things, with most of my free time going to gaming, hence demoting myself to being a lurker here. I've dropped reviewing and long posting completely but since y'all insist:

It's okay at best, covered up by smokescreen aspects that was 25 years in the making. That smokescreen is what makes it look amazing on a surface level glance but when you peel the covers, you see many problems stemming from inorganic writing that make it happen. For Ash's ultimate battle and achievement ever, the execution of everything leading up to this moment in this series (and even some within this episode itself, Cinderace and Power of Friendship asspull for example) has been poor and makes it a pyrrhic victory for me. That's all I'll say.

 

[Yce288]

Considering both Haruka and Serena in their IDOL OUTFIT, Takeshi is in his DOCTOR OUTFIT, we can guess that they are in their work hours and Kasumi is the same, so that doesnt mean she is out of character. Its not like everyone are free when the battle happen you know (look at Gou for example)

I would like to know what is Misty's work that she needs to wear a swimsuit during her work.
i also said the same thing about May in a previous comment, but you're the only one who gave me an explanation that make sense.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I ****ing hate that episode

 

[santiagus]

Since @Panky.. did it I will do it too.

The whole best moment in the Pokemon anime history is a lie that's only usefull for Youtube videos.. It's huge? Yes. It's stupid? Yes.

Since Leon decided to Gygamax Cinderace he decided to shoot himself in the foot since all the libero strategy did go down the drain. Why did he do that? Guess that the other trainer who has a Cinderace is too usseless to even use Gygamax or.., that his life cycle is ending. Sorry. Also let's talk about him not even being in the stadium. It's really clear that they threw the towel with him. Two PM episodes and then Bye Bye.


The battle was good? Yes I won't deny it. it was well animated? The 1 vs 1 yes However for this 1 vs 1 animation we had to sacrifice 4 episodes. Soooo....Also the cameos are good?Yes but far away from what you expected recognize this.

The end is good but the road to get here has been inconsistent as hell.

And the big question is... Now what? Ash is world champion and Goh....Who cares about him?

3 weeks to know the answers.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Since @Panky.. did it I will do it too.

The whole best moment in the Pokemon anime history is a lie that's only usefull for Youtube videos.. It's huge? Yes. It's stupid? Yes.

Since Leon decided to Gygamax Cinderace he decided to shoot himself in the foot since all the libero strategy did go down the drain. Why did he do that? Guess that the other trainer who has a Cinderace is too usseless to even use Gygamax or.., that his life cycle is ending. Sorry. Also let's talk about him not even being in the stadium. It's really clear that they threw the towel with him. Two PM episodes and then Bye Bye.


The battle was good? Yes I won't deny it. it was well animated? The 1 vs 1 yes However for this 1 vs 1 animation we had to sacrifice 4 episodes. Soooo....Also the cameos are good?Yes but far away from what you expected recognize this.

The end is good but the road to get here has been inconsistent as hell.

And the big question is... Now what? Ash is world champion and Goh....Who cares about him?

3 weeks to know the answers.

Cynthia shot herself in the foot by dynamaxing Togekiss

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

I ****ing hate that episode

Something I agree with you completely on lol

 

[Fire_Phoenix]

I would like to know what is Misty's work that she needs to wear a swimsuit during her work.
i also said the same thing about May in a previous comment, but you're the only one who gave me an explanation that make sense.

Really, have to wonder why you are so obsess about Kasumi when literally no one does. When i say work hours, it could be anything like maintenance the pool, the gym work or training with her pokemon because her battle strategy all relate to water so she doesnt want her clothes get wet (hence the swimsuit). LITERALLY nothing in that 2 still screen make her out of character, so i hope we can drop this dicussion at here

 

[Yce288]

Really, have to wonder why you are so obsess about Kasumi when literally no one does. When i say work hours, it could be anything like maintenance the pool, the gym work or training with her pokemon because her battle strategy all relate to water so she doesnt want her clothes get wet (hence the swimsuit). LITERALLY nothing in that 2 still screen make her out of character, so i hope we can drop this dicussion at here

When someone give me an explanation that make sense, then, yes, the dicussion will end, like i said in the previous comment so far you're the only one who give me explanations that make sense.

 

[Peluched49]

Moved to the correct thread to avoid derailing that one.

Unlike some people who shill for things 24/7 (regardless of the quality), I've been pretty busy with life and other things, with most of my free time going to gaming, hence demoting myself to being a lurker here. I've dropped reviewing and long posting completely but since y'all insist:

It's okay at best, covered up by smokescreen aspects that was 25 years in the making. That smokescreen is what makes it look amazing on a surface level glance but when you peel the covers, you see many problems stemming from inorganic writing that make it happen. For Ash's ultimate battle and achievement ever, the execution of everything leading up to this moment in this series (and even some within this episode itself, Cinderace and Power of Friendship asspull for example) has been poor and makes it a pyrrhic victory for me. That's all I'll say.

There are negatives in the episode, journeys being bad, eternatus, cinderace, and the buildup. I think a lot of people have mentioned this, you're not the only guy, trust me. But the things that are well done are really well done, for example, the one on one.

Asspull? Huh thats a big word, i dont think it was one, it was the power of friendship for sure but for once its well done, not the point where its intrusive to the overall battle and not believable. I watched a lot of anime, so much shounen where that sh** happens (this isn't ichigo here), this is not one of those. The closest moment similar to this one is when pikachu was dead frozen against brandons regice and ash did a speech to get him to break free from the ice. Only in this moment rather seeing things from ash's perspective we see it from pikachus perspective.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

How can anyone complain about the "Power of friendship asspull" in this context though? Like literally how??? The entire Pokemon anime has been about that, this is Ash's biggest battle, his journeys and everything that means to people is best represented by the mons he had as that's what people connected to most, why wouldn't a power of friendship moment be used here when it's the most satisfying way to go, and this is absolutely a deserved power of friendship moment, so calling it an "asspull" is just absurd and laughable honestly

Also I'm tired of people acting like the opponents can't make a choice that doesn't end up working in their favour coz they don't have the power of hindsight. Obviously considering how shocked Leon was to see Cinderace faint early, he bet on a double gigantamax to wear out Pikachu and destroy him, then not to take advantage of a second gigantamax and just stick with Libero. He made a choice, it didn't work out for him coz he doesn't have hindsight powers, and that's fine bruh. The Cinderace and Pikachu fight can absolutely be criticised for how short it was and how easily Cinderace went down sure, but people acting like Cynthia or Leon are nerfed coz they made different strategic plays and it didn't work out are always irksome

 

[vondecayle]

but people acting like Cynthia or Leon

People also need to understand that they are not perfect and can make mistakes. Heck, they thought they had no room to improve and this defeats prove otherwise.

Super Strong and Experienced ≠ Perfect

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

People also need to understand that they are not perfect and can make mistakes that costs them the match. Heck, they thought they had no room to improve and this defeats prove otherwise.

Super Strong and Experienced ≠ Perfect

Exactly, people complain about Leon or Cynthia being too OP or strong, but then get mad if they make a slight wrong choice and aren't consistently perfect, even when it wasn't even a wrong choice perse, just a different strat that didn't work out in their favour

 

[Peluched49]

People also need to understand that they are not perfect and can make mistakes. Heck, they thought they had no room to improve and this defeats prove otherwise.

Super Strong and Experienced ≠ Perfect

Honestly i thought at some point in the second episode of the cynthia battle that she would dynamax garchomp.

 

[Sham]

Exactly, people complain about Leon or Cynthia being too OP or strong, but then get mad if they make a slight wrong choice and aren't consistently perfect, even when it wasn't even a wrong choice perse, just a different strat that didn't work out in their favour

Since we could have a friendly debate and I recently said both of things about Leon and Cynthia I'll say this.


The reason why this is questionable writing is because somehow Cynthia and Leon knew to use their strongest gimmick on their strongest Pokemon during the wrong times where they were guaranteed to win. This isn't the time or place to play around with new strategies you haven't planned or fully thought out.

You cannot logically explain why Cynthia thought it was more intelligent not to Mega Evolve in the second round more than the first. You could even make a bigger point that it would've been smarter to Dynamax Togekiss on Haxorus who has nothing going for it.

Why is Leon GMAXING Charizard when he has more than half a team left and Gardevior more than likely couldn't take base Charizard anyway since he one shotteded Alain's.

Do you get the problem? They used the "good" strategies in places that arguably didn't matter because they weren't fighting the main character yet. The writers didn't even try to convey like they were good ideas because immediately after they made those respective decisions, Cinderace was almost one shotted and Lucario knocked Togekiss out as soon as it returned to normal basically.

How is it that only Ash knows to only use gimmicks on his aces (notice Gengar was only used when it was announced he could use all three and still doubt he would've did if it was limited) in this tournament but everybody else wants to try bad experiments?

 

[Peluched49]

Since we could have a friendly debate and I recently said both of things about Leon and Cynthia I'll say this.


The reason why this is questionable writing is because somehow Cynthia and Leon knew to use their strongest gimmick on their strongest Pokemon during the wrong times where they were guaranteed to win. This isn't the time or place to play around with new strategies you haven't planned or fully thought out.

You cannot logically explain why Cynthia thought it was more intelligent not to Mega Evolve in the second round more than the first. You could even make a bigger point that it would've been smarter to Dynamax Togekiss on Haxorus who has nothing going for it.

Why is Leon GMAXING Charizard when he has more than half a team left and Gardevior more than likely couldn't take base Charizard anyway since he one shotteded Alain's.

Do you get the problem? They used the "good" strategies in places that arguably didn't matter because they weren't fighting the main character yet. The writers didn't even try to convey like they were good ideas because immediately after they made those respective decisions, Cinderace was almost one shotted and Lucario knocked Togekiss out as soon as it returned to normal basically.

How is it that only Ash knows to only use gimmicks on his aces (notice Gengar was only used when it was announced he could use all three and still doubt he would've did if it was limited) in this tournament but everybody else wants to try bad experiments?

I wont argue agaisnt you too much on the cynthia fight, and i dont have anything to say about the diantha fight.

In Leon's case when it comes to cinderace, it definitely made sense why he'd gmax the furry. This is the pokemon that gave pikachu a hard time in the beginning of the battle, having the libero ability therefore being a very effective and complicated opponent for the yellow mouse to deal with, and was build up very strongly throughout the first 3 episodes. G maxing cinderace makes as much sense as G Maxing charizard, both choices have equal validity as they could believably defeat pikachu at that point. Now the execution ending up being sh** is another story, thats on the writers for making that dumb final decision.

Now looking at it from a viewer perspective, mine at least. I dont want to see a battle between g max charizard and pikachu again when we already got it the last episode. I don't care, even if it makes sense, i dont want to see it again.

The proper solution would have been the obvious, a fully fleshed out battle where ash would have a come up with a way to defeat cinderace with pikachu. Have the G Max battle then have them fight in their base forms. Even better yet, get rid of the eternatus and g max cinderace stuff, have pikachu battle it after it defeated dracovish, and leave the charizard stuff for last.

 

[satopi]

Eternatus butting in essentially made Leon lose even if he also got a recharge. It just made Cinderace vulnerable to a one-shot.

Which is funny, considering Eternatus is this Leon's Pokemon. In a very strange way, Goh screwed Leon but aided Ash cheat, I mean, win.

I was thinking this the whole time when I first watched it. After I rewatched it the second time, I liked that they both had a recharge but I really felt like if Mugendaina didn’t interfere, Ash would’ve lost but hey, it was there for a reason.

It was cool seeing the Dynamax.

 

[Spyro39]

Eternatus butting in essentially made Leon lose even if he also got a recharge. It just made Cinderace vulnerable to a one-shot.

Which is funny, considering Eternatus is this Leon's Pokemon. In a very strange way, Goh screwed Leon but aided Ash cheat, I mean, win.

Ironic some people were saying Goh possibly screwed Ash out of the latter's victory against Leon by handing Leon Eternatus (because some believed Leon was going to use Eternatus in the battle, which I found ridiculous) when the opposite had happened.

 

[Sham]

I wont argue agaisnt you too much on the cynthia fight, and i dont have anything to say about the diantha fight.

In Leon's case when it comes to cinderace, it definitely made sense why he'd gmax the furry. This is the pokemon that gave pikachu a hard time in the beginning of the battle, having the libero ability therefore being a very effective and complicated opponent for the yellow mouse to deal with, and was build up very strongly throughout the first 3 episodes. G maxing cinderace makes as much sense as G Maxing charizard, both choices have equal validity as they could believably defeat pikachu at that point. Now the execution ending up being sh** is another story, thats on the writers for making that dumb final decision.

Now looking at it from a viewer perspective, mine at least. I dont want to see a battle between g max charizard and pikachu again when we already got it the last episode. I don't care, even if it makes sense, i dont want to see it again.

The proper solution would have been the obvious, a fully fleshed out battle where ash would have a come up with a way to defeat cinderace with pikachu. Have the G Max battle then have them fight in their base forms. Even better yet, get rid of the eternatus and g max cinderace stuff, have pikachu battle it after it defeated dracovish, and leave the charizard stuff for last.

But that's the thing, you never are given an explanation why they made the choices they did. Everything is fan speculation. Dynamaxing Togekiss? Spamming the same move over and over somehow was her plan to boost speed that did nothing or was even confirmed by her. Cinderace? It gave Pikachu a hard time originally so suddenly it's better than his unbeatable ace. It comes off as excuses searchings for reasons when the truth is, they dumb. He didn't even really utilize Libero after it GMAXED and Ash never even found a way to counter that.

I know you said, you aren't arguing the Cynthia argument but that just ties in the greater point that these Champions are dumb almost every single one of them quite frankly. Leon is just getting the worse of it because it was the most recent and conclusion but they all were dumb

Tried not being "negative" since this was important for so many people but it's been enough time, this battle has issues specifically a lot of inherited issues from the Cynthia battle.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

Eternatus butting in essentially made Leon lose even if he also got a recharge. It just made Cinderace vulnerable to a one-shot.

Which is funny, considering Eternatus is this Leon's Pokemon. In a very strange way, Goh screwed Leon but aided Ash cheat, I mean, win.

Huh, i didn’t think of it that way at first but now it just made the way cinderace got OHKOed even more infuriating.

Yeah maybe if eternatus didn’t pointlessly butt in, leon wouldn’t have had amnesia and forgot libero was a thing.

 

[Peluched49]

But that's the thing, you never are given an explanation why they made the choices they did. Everything is fan speculation. Dynamaxing Togekiss? Spamming the same move over and over somehow was her plan to boost speed that did nothing or was even confirmed by her. Cinderace? It gave Pikachu a hard time originally so suddenly it's better than his unbeatable ace. It comes off as excuses searchings for reasons when the truth is, they dumb. He didn't even really utilize Libero after it GMAXED and Ash never even found a way to counter that.

I know you said, you aren't arguing the Cynthia argument but that just ties in the greater point that these Champions are dumb almost every single one of them quite frankly. Leon is just getting the worse of it because it was the most recent and conclusion but they all were dumb

Tried not being "negative" since this was important for so many people but it's been enough time, this battle has issues specifically a lot of inherited issues from the Cynthia battle.

At what point did i say g maxing cinderace was better than g maxing charizard? when i said both are equally valid choices for different reasons.

At what point did i say anything remotely positive about how the G Max cinderace stuff was handled? when i clearly said the execution was not good and the battle would have been better without g max cinderace and eternatus butting in. I see the issue in the bigger picture not a small part of it.

I dont try to not be negative to please people, thats on you buddy, in the very first comment i made in this page i spoke my thoughts on the episode and i highlighted the issues I particularly had with this episode. I dont care, if there is something worth praising than i will, but if there is something i had problems with than i will speak my thoughts on it. And if they have a problem with me being negative, they can block me, its not the end of the world to me. You should just speak your mind.