Fire Training Battle! Ash VS Paul!! (1203)

[Kuzehiko]

First of all I'd like to say
Gym leaders aren't stuck to that duty and they are free to challenge higher leagues like WCS so a gym leader is not permanently attached to staying at a gym so it does not mean Paul wouldn't be able to compete against Ash ever again (That assuming if we ever see him again in the show) I also wonder if that was really Paul's true team. By what Goh suggested he only used the same Pokemon aces of Lance , Cynthia and Steven in order to prepare Ash for the M8.
Paul sure got very strong power wise but he also got a brilliant character development.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

However the two big things regarding his descion to not join the PWC (to much festivities???) and his Gym Leader path I find incredibly bad reasoning for the former and really weird for the latter. As everyone has already said he should’ve just been a frontier brain I have no idea why they went with gym leader but I guess that’s where he’s heading now. To me Paul is like Ash, always aiming higher and desiring to become stronger, so I just can’t see him settling for gym leader personally.

Alright I kindaaa want to address this.
First my original post about the same topic:

Because Gym leaders are literally meant to be mentors and experienced talented individuals who know take on the role of testing new talent and nurturing them
Which is literally what Paul does to Ash without Ash realising which is why they reveal Paul is offered to be a Gym leader after that revelation

He's shown a clear growth from just wanting to be stronger and not caring about his Pokemon to still being strict but treating Pokemon as partners and having maturity enough to help others grow instead of just demeaning them as pathetic and getting rid of them. Becoming a Gym leader is the best way to represent that growth. It's also why it's absolutely perfect Paul doesn't want to be in the PWC, while the competition sure might irk his interest, the PWC is way too flashy and advertises the whole event as an extravaganza with celebrities, Paul doesn't need that spotlight

So based on that I think the current trajectory makes so much more sense for him. Frontier Brains really were an extra challenge for experienced trainers, an elite club. Gym leaders however are meant to be mentors to aspiring trainers by assessing their skills and developing them. Paul, emotionally matured and having come to view Pokemon as his partners, growing to take on this role feels like such a nice progression from his past self. He's still focused on getting stronger, but he doesn't need to participate in flashy tournaments like the PWC to do that anymore. Considering he took on the decision to come to Oak to actually learn more about Pokemon itself when offered the position of Gym leader, really shows a new sense of maturity for him where he's actually taking on this role seriously.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I don't get why Gym Leader is suddenly a bad thing when a Gym Leader was in the Masters 8 and nobody from the Battle frontier was here lol

 

[Kuzehiko]

[

Raihan's a gym leader, yet he was right there in the top 8 of the PWC before Ash crashed his hopes and dreams. Volkner in the games literally gets bored from underwhelming challengers and threatens to quit and take on the E4 himself if you don't beat him. Misty has Mega Evolution. Gym Leaders are allowed to level up and measure up to E4 and Champions, they don't have to be perpetually handicapped.

If Paul actually does become the Viridian Leader, and is why he's inquiring with Oak instead of say, Rowan, that works out nicely for him anyway. If he gets bored like Volkner did, he's got his old rival literally one town over to keep himself fresh.

Yeah it's canon game and anime wise that some gym leaders are as strong as some E4.
Also lmao at Volker threatening to quit and take on the E4! Love that guy

I don't get why Gym Leader is suddenly a bad thing when a Gym Leader was in the Masters 8 and nobody from the Battle frontier was here lol

Exactly my thought lol

 

[Zoruagible]

Let's make Paul a Gym Leader! Eh...? Why not make him a Battle Frontier member? If he beat Brandon then he'd be offered a position like Ash was
Or at the very least, Elite Four or Champion. Trip and Sawyer becoming Gym Leaders would be more fitting for their characters

They sure took their sweet time getting an episode with Ash's Oak Pokemon, it's a shame the Alola ones aren't here. I really hope that Lucario and the rest go here in the end, it's nice seeing them all together. Incineroar and Hawlucha would have been great friends...

Also kind of sad they didn't let Paul's Ursaring get a brief appearance, Torterra I can understand since it looks exactly like Ash's but there was space and Ursaring was essentially one of his mains

It was great seeing all the Pokemon in a lab episode, I pray that the next Oak episode actually lets it happen again and we don't get another SM/Early Journeys situation where a good chunk are conveniently not there(And that we don't have to wait as long for this to happen...). Be cool if they actually did stuff too, what was the point of Infernape's eagerness if Ash never brought him into the playing field? That just felt like a tease

9/10 Remove Goh next time

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

I'm starting to think the anime wanted to retire Frontier Brains entirely just like they did with Ash-Greninja, so Paul just became a Gym Leader because...of that.

Advanced Generation being done dirty, smh.

I watched the episode, it was ok except I didn't really care for Ash winning and it seems like Ash will neglect his reserves in the tournament is what brings the episode down for me.

 

[DayQuil95]

Raihan's a gym leader, yet he was right there in the top 8 of the PWC before Ash crashed his hopes and dreams. Volkner in the games literally gets bored from underwhelming challengers and threatens to quit and take on the E4 himself if you don't beat him. Misty has Mega Evolution. Gym Leaders are allowed to level up and measure up to E4 and Champions, they don't have to be perpetually handicapped.

If Paul actually does become the Viridian Leader, and is why he's inquiring with Oak instead of say, Rowan, that works out nicely for him anyway. If he gets bored like Volkner did, he's got his old rival literally one town over to keep himself fresh.

Very well said. Paul is among these Elite Four - Champion level Gym Leaders, they're less of a tier and more of a role that one should exert to tutor others and cause them to develop while improving themselves, which's why Paul is a Gym Leader even though he's Champion Level based on his performance against Ash.

 

[squirtle009]

EVERYONE IS HERE!

Well except for Greninja, Goodra, the Alola pokémon, etc.

How dare you disrespect my boi Squirtle?

 

[Sham]

Considering the anime had Agatha of all people running the Viridian Gym “until they found the new Gym Leader” it would be a nice reference if Paul being in Kanto (let alone Pallet which isn’t far from Varidian) will be it’s leader. Giovanni is never coming back so might as well

 

[doofinc]

Subbed notes in chronological order

• Reunion
  • Torkoal not being able to catch up to the rest of the fire squad is the good kind of subtle comedy
  • Infernape carrying Oak is kinda funny
  • Paul commanding Infernape even for 1 second is a nice tiny touch
  • Ash sure did go over all 191 episodes of DP within 2 seconds with Go while Paul was standing there
• Paul
  • "I'm not one for festivities" being the reason to not be in the PWC really sucks
    • it's pretty blatant that they didn't plan on having Paul come back until this opportunity came up
• Battle
  • "Only use Pokemon you are using in the Masters tournament" is a hard confirm of no reserves which is disappointing
  • All of the Pokemon watching Ash vs. Paul is a cool atmosphere
  • Like the callback to Ash's very first battle with Paul with this battle structure of 3 1v1's
  • Why did it take a whole training segment for Gengar to learn Will-O-Wisp but Lucario pulls Bullet Punch out of nowhere within the same episode
    • Mans wasn't even doing that in his mini training session with Buizel, Heracross, and Hawlucha
  • Gyarados was just Drapion 2.0
  • Callback to explosion stances from Sinnoh League
  • DORAGON CRO
  • Drago-Meteor is a kind of cool concept
    • TBH I foresee this being used in Ash vs. Cynthia - kinda getting the feeling that Dragonite is the ace vs Cynthia
  • NGL the music during Dragonite vs Garchomp was kinda bad
  • Paul talking smack against Ash during Metagross vs. Gengar is the kind of Paul energy I missed
  • This battle was mid but it's to be expected for a 10 minute 3v3 with little stakes
• After
  • At least they're keeping Paul's personality progress from DP with him thanking his Pokemon
  • Paul really trying help Ash is a nice character progression too
  • "Paul was asked to become a Gym Leader" heavily pog
  • They sure rushed the part with Ash's mom

Overall thoughts

• explicit textual confirmation that Ash isn't using his reserves is very disappointing
  • there has to be some kind of executive order or something since DP to not use reserves anymore
  • if so, then I think this is at least the best they could do to have the reserves contribute
  • WHY WAS THERE NO ASH GRENINJA IN THE FLASHBACKS ?????????????????????????????????????????
• I like that there's personality progression in Paul and it wasn't thrown away from DP
  • Being very helpful to Ash is definitely something that wouldn't have happened before
  • Him being asked to be a Gym Leader is a cool little touch, but I wish we got some kind of update regarding him vs his dad Brandon
• kinda sad that the released Pokemons don't get to be in these pictures
• Paul not being in the PWC at all is fairly lame TBH. Even if he doesn't like the showmanship, the top trainers are still there at the finale

A nice little episode for Paul fans, wished the battle was a bit more exciting. IDK if time just feels faster to me or something but it feels like most Journeys episode plots are rushed. Hopefully that feeling disappears at some point; the only one I didn't feel that in was the Serena episode.

 

[Rune Knight]

How dare you disrespect my boi Squirtle?

Hey, I said "etc"!

 

[Rune Knight]

10/10 Episode.

Also, which tier do you guys think that Paul would situate in terms of Gym Leader level? And which type and/or battle mechanic would he specialize in?

I know that in the world of the anime the gym leaders can be challenged in any order, but for the sake of this subject and fun curiosity, I would naturally like to think that he would be in the same level as the eight. But he could also take on the mantle of the third, replacing Maylene as the Gym Leader of Veilstone City which is his hometown.

While I would also like to assume that his gym would be miscellaneous, I think that the Dark Type would suit him considering his character and the fact that he owns a Honchkrow and a Weavile, and making him the Dark Type Gym Leader of Sinnoh.

 

[Lord Godwin]

10/10 Episode.

Also, which tier do you guys think that Paul would situate in terms of Gym Leader level? And which type and/or battle mechanic would he specialize in?

I know that in the world of the anime the gym leaders can be challenged in any order, but for the sake of this subject and fun curiosity, I would naturally like to think that he would be in the same level as the eight. But he could also take on the mantle of the third, replacing Maylene as the Gym Leader of Veilstone City which is his hometown.

While I would also like to assume that his gym would be miscellaneous, I think that the Dark Type would suit him considering his character and the fact that he owns a Honchkrow and a Weavile, and making him the Dark Type Gym Leader of Sinnoh.

It would make sense to make him Viridian Gym Leader.

As per tyle - a Champion type Gym Leader (Blue also specialized in this type in the games).

Seriously though Dark is ok (you forgot about Drapion) but so is Ground with Torterra, Gliscor, Nidoking, Gastrodon, Garchomp and Ursaluna (because why not).

Flying can also work with Honchkrow, Gliscor, Ninjask

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

10/10 Episode.

Also, which tier do you guys think that Paul would situate in terms of Gym Leader level? And which type and/or battle mechanic would he specialize in?

I know that in the world of the anime the gym leaders can be challenged in any order, but for the sake of this subject and fun curiosity, I would naturally like to think that he would be in the same level as the eight. But he could also take on the mantle of the third, replacing Maylene as the Gym Leader of Veilstone City which is his hometown.

While I would also like to assume that his gym would be miscellaneous, I think that the Dark Type would suit him considering his character and the fact that he owns a Honchkrow and a Weavile, and making him the Dark Type Gym Leader of Sinnoh.

He'd be at the top tier of gym leaders in terms of strentgh so most likely the 8th gym.

 

[Vichoo]

What a chapter, once again demonstrating why Paul was and continues to be Ash's best rival.

On the subject of reservations, I feel that they left it up in the air again (Thrown to the side that I may not use them), since it will probably be the final surprise of the directors of each tournament, but I will continue to have low expectations.

 

[Rune Knight]

It would make sense to make him Viridian Gym Leader.

As per tyle - a Champion type Gym Leader (Blue also specialized in this type in the games).

Seriously though Dark is ok (you forgot about Drapion) but so is Ground with Torterra, Gliscor, Nidoking, Gastrodon, Garchomp and Ursaluna (because why not).

Flying can also work with Honchkrow, Gliscor, Ninjask

I forgot that he had a Drapion. I think that poison could work as well with Nidoking and considering that Sinnoh lacks one, which is also why I personally would prefer it if he was situated in Sinnoh.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

PAUL>ASH
Actually uses his reserves

Battle IQ/Paul
Paul battles smart and efficiently,doesn't make silly mistakes.Takes full advantage of status moves/abilities/switching/type advantage/entry hazards/knowing which move to use at the right time.

Planning/Paul
Literally the Batman of the Pokemon anime,uses planning and preparation for vast majority of his battles.

• Trained Chimchar to learn the move Dig for upcoming gym battle with Roark who specializes in rock-types
• Spent 10 days preparing for his battle with Ash at Lake Acuity which led to him massacuring Ash 6-2
• Routinely planned for every battle in the sinnoh league which led to him sweeping his opponents Barry being one of them
• Purposely let Aggron/Gastrodon be defeated to know Ash's strategy and what pokemon he was using

Rotating/Paul
Paul reguarly rotated his pokemon throughout the DP series and it's evident by the fact that he used a total of 17 pokemon which includes some that he eventually released.His older Brother Reggie is pretty much his version of Professor Oak,in an episode we seen him contacting Reggie to send him Electabuzz for the Pastoria gym.He used Nidoking,Hariyama and Lairon in his battle against Brandon but it was quite obvious the team Paul had at that time was intended for gym leader Candice.So Paul managed to train both new and old pokemon all in one region where Ash has struggled to do in every region he's been in.

Bonding/Ash
This one goes to Ash,it's pretty obvious that he shows more love and affection for his pokemon than Paul ever did for his.

Experience/Tie
This one is a tie as both have been through most of the regions and are still active trainers

Training/Paul or Tie
I'd like to say Paul due to putting his pokemon through rigorous training all the way till night time.He also managed to train Electivire/Ursaring/Drapion into huge powerhouses in just 1 region which is impressive.Currently Ash now has the ability to train pokemon into E4-Champion level threats despite not much on screen trainig being shown but at the same time Paul has gotten stronger since then and one of his pokemon managed to defeat his who had a good showing against the Unova Champion.

 

[KurashiDragon]

I don't have very much to say about the episode itself. It was good. The juxtaposition between seeing Paul straight up not care about Chimchar to telling Electivire to "go play" was probably the highlight of the episode for me. It was just... so weird to think about. I have a few problems with the battle itself though. Specifically the creators turning Dragonite into a jobber. Can confidently say I'm really not a fan. Went from tanking super effective hits from champion trained pokemon to going down to a Garchomp that literally came out of nowhere. Are they even going to do anything with that "Rush in Draco Meteor" strat or is this just a "lol Ash so random" moment? I'm genuinely curious.

Preview says OLM is feeding Alain to the wolves and I'm just loling. The heck was the point of bringing him back just to have him take and L in such a spectacular fashion. This anime man. It's cute that they finally brought in hop though. Way to late in the story for him to be anything even remotely significant but it's nice to see him. I kinda like him. NGL

6 / 10

 

[deliaketchum]

Great episode but the reasoning for paul not in pwc was absurd. Really liked the training sequence with Ash´s senior pokemon. Battle with paul should have been longer to properly show his strategies

 

[GLTSRY]

Are they even going to do anything with that "Rush in Draco Meteor" strat or is this just a "lol Ash so random" moment? I'm genuinely curious.

Definitely. Both Gengar and Lucario learned new moves in this episode, so this is the “power-up” that Dragonite received. It will be probably used against Cynthia.