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First Competitive Team >.>

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Rhys29, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Rhys29

    Rhys29 Encore

    Wow. Things have a new look around here... I don't even have to put in the indent tags now.

    Hello to those who remember me! To those who don't, you might have seen my warstory, that one with Seaking. I have been gone for a very long time and I have totally neglected research on Pokemon for about a year. I am not quite aware of how the tiers have changed, so if you, Blue_Harvest, happen along this thread I would greatly appreciate a synopsis.

    For those who just want to rate, go ahead. Those who want to give me a great rating, please subject yourself to about 5 minutes of boring reading by opening the spoiler. This will help explain exactly what I'm looking for.

    Though I had been playing competitively for about 3 years, I never really built a live team. And when I did, it just turned out to be a bunch of random crap I threw together to battle friends. So now that I'm waiting for Nintendo to have a project for me to work on, I'm totally bored and can see myself investing some time into breeding and all the boring things that I don't like to do.

    IF you have pokeSAV, PLEASE GOD contact me! Though some of my work friends will not play me if I SAV my Pokemon, I don't see any harm in having a few perfect Dittos to help speed things up.

    Anyways, so now I'm looking to build a team. I want to play like I used to, which is bulky offense in the sand. While I still want to use Nidoking, I'd mostly like a team I'm comfortable with. This means I would like to use Tyranitar, the annoying as hell Jirachi, and my staple Scizor. On top of this, unless I can get someone with SAV, please do not suggest things that take tons and tons of effort to obtain or breed (ex: no Seismic Toss Blissey).

    In terms of threats, while I'd like to handle everything, I know I will not be facing everything. There are only a few threats that I really want to look out for, and those are:

    - CM Suicune
    - Shell Smash Cloyster
    - Curse Snorlax
    - Timid Latios

    These are my top priority. So now that you all know, or rather you who made time to read this, on to the team.

    Since true leads have essential died out from what I can tell, I'll just start with staples and go from there.

    ~ Substitute Thunder Wave Jirachi ~
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Jolly (Adamant?)
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    - Substitute
    - Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    This guy is annoying. I'm sure you all know that. I've been using this set for a long time and it's a staple in all my teams, specifically because I already have one made and ready. It also annoys the hell out of most Pokemon and beats opponents that it probably shouldn't. This slot will not change.

    ~ Roost Swords Dance Scizor ~
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 196 HP / 252 Attack / 60 Speed
    - Roost
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Brick Break
    I still have yet to find a sweeper as reliable as Scizor. During the last few months of 4th Gen I was using this set like crazy because it was sweeping for me more effectively than anything I had used before. However, I believe he is no longer the monster that he used to be, so his moveset is open to change. If I do not run this, I would switch Swords Dance out for U-Turn and switch a Life Orb in on him (perhaps with a change in EVs too due to my inadequate understanding of the current Speed tiers). If he's not sweeping, he's going to be U-Turning.

    ~ Choice Scarf Tyranitar ~
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Hasty
    Ability: Sandstream
    EVs: 220 Attack / 36 Special Defense / 248 Speed
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Blast
    From my experience, my old bulky Rest/Sleep Talk Tyranitar set that I adopted from Ace a long time ago is a bit dated and not quite as useful. This way I can shoot down Latios and Starmie as they would otherwise hurt my team. Since Terrakion is checked twice, and Jellicent takes care of Infernape, I used the last slot for Fire Blast to catch standard Tyranitar switch-ins off guard. It 2HKO's Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Breloom while OHKOing Scizor. Special Defense is set to reliably take a +1 Bug Buzz from Volcarona.

    ~ Utility Counter Jellicent ~
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Defense / 84 Speed
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Scald
    After some pondering, and the constant assurance from other raters that I was indeed incredibly weak to Fighting-types, I decided Jellicent would work nicely. I settled on Toxic to deal with Suicune and get Latios/Latias switches. I was iffy on Taunt until I looked at how it would help my team practically, and using it to neuter Skarmory, Vaporeon, CM Suicune, Curse Snorlax, and other slow Pokemon will be very helpful. In conjunction with Ferrothorn, I can hopefully rack up plenty of EHs early on while preventing my opponent from removing them.

    ~ Bulk Up Conkeldurr ~
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 4 Defense / 252 Attack / 252 Special Defense
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Stone Edge
    I've always wanted to use Conkeldurr but never really had the opportunity. As a back up/late game sweeper, I feel this guy can pull his own weight. I wanted to be a bit more prepared for bulky Special Attack based sponges, so I went with a very high investment into Special Defense. This guy will also deal with Curse Lax without too much of a problem. At the same time, it makes each Drain Punch recover a higher % which can help if I manage to get burned or poisoned.

    ~ Entry Hazard Ferrothorn ~
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Impish
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Defense / 168 Special Defense
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    I ditched Cloyster in favor of this big, spiked lug. Since he may have opportunities to set up multiple layers of entry hazards, I decided to use Spikes instead of Gyro Ball or Protect. If I find I don't have time for Spikes, I can always switch it. I love Leech Seed as it gives you the advantage of easing your switch-outs and hindering the foe's switch-ins. Power Whip is to help my lack of offense towards Water-types.

    And that's the team. Overall, I have a weakness to Fighting-type, but only Choice Scarf Terrakion or Mienshao will end my team. Both I can threaten with Scizor and Conkeldurr, but I know neither of them are reliable answers. Otherwise, Tyranitar should be able to revenge kill most of them. An answer to my Fighting-type weakness would be appreciated. I might be able to remove Tyranitar for something else that can still deal with Latios and take down Lucario.

    Thanks everyone!​
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  2. Enjyu

    Enjyu Made In China.

    You don't really need all that speed on jirachi if you paralyze your opponents. Make it bulkier. And just for the record you have 1 measly special attacker. Skarmory would own you. You need AT LEAST 2 to succeed. Otherwise decent.
  3. No, there is no magic number of special sweepers that you need on a team. Besides, Rotom-W switches into Skarm very easily and kills it off with Thunderbolt, Cloyster 2HKOs with Icicle Spear after Shell Smash, and even Conkeldurr and Scizor can do a lot of damage with a boosted Superpower/Drain Punch before they are Whirlwinded out.

    Anyways, I guess there are a few changes you could give a try. Right now Jirachi speed ties with the other base 100s, which is nice, but that might not be an issue with Substitute. If you were to run an Adamant nature, you'd still outspeed Timid Rotom-W and have a bit more power. You could also try out Brick Break over Superpower on Scizor since the stat drops are a bit unconventional for a bulky sweeper. Also, I can see you are running just enough speed on Tyranitar to outspeed Starmie, but it might be worth it to run max speed. That way you'll at least have a shot at beating opposing ScarfTars in a speed tie, which is a bit more valuable than 1 HP point.

    Now perhaps a more substantial change? I feel that a bulky NP Celebi set could function well over Conkeldurr. It seems that your main purpose for Conkeldurr is a bulky sweeper, which Celebi covers, and it also helps with the Vaporeon and Suicune troubles that you referenced. Moreover, it gives you a much needed resistance to random Fighting attacks and can check Terrakion decently. I'm thinking a 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spe Bold spread, which lets you outspeed the standard 32 Spe Jirachi and 72 Spe Gliscor that people still run for some reason, as well as giving you maximum physical bulk. It may seem strange to go so bulky on a sweeper set, but it lets Celebi check physical threats like Terrakion much more easily. It even 2HKOs Terra with Giga Drain even with no investment. I also recommend Nasty Plot/Giga Drain/Recover/HP Fire for the set.

    Well, I hope that helps! ^_^
  4. Enjyu

    Enjyu Made In China.

    ^well one not even that hard hitting special attacker isn't really gonna cut it. What if it dies early on?
  5. What if Skarmory dies early on? "What ifs" are kinda dangerous, you know. After all, a team with Gastrodon is pretty safe against Rotom-W. But what if Gastrodon dies? Maybe the team would then be ravaged by Rotom-W, but the fact is as long as the player keeps Gastrodon handy, Rotom-W will hardly be a problem.

    Rhys29 is someone who has played competitive for quite a while. He probably knows enough to keep Rotom-W alive if he really needs it to handle Skarmory, which means not leaving it in on something that can kill it. Not just that, but Skarm still has problems getting past some of the other members of the team without serious damage. In addition, the Celebi I mentioned will help additionally with Skarm if it's that much of a problem.
  6. Eliteknight

    Eliteknight S.L.Y.

    id use thsi scizor set

    scizor@iron plate
    bullet punch
    sworda dance

    this works better than havign super power it doesnt lower your speed and is very effective bp always OHKO's Terrakion if i remeber correctly
  7. Rhys29

    Rhys29 Encore

    Thanks for catching the Superpower, I actually run Brick Break. Celebi is a good idea, but I have two issues with it. 1. It makes me a bit more Lucario weak which I almost can't afford at this point and 2. Celebi is a ***** to get perfect, especially since I missed the event. I could possibly talk to the Pokemon coordinator when I get back to Nintendo but that's still a pain to get just right. However it could work better in Cloyster's spot which would give me a very bulky secondary Water-type coverage and Fighting-type resistance, which is very tempting. I'll mull it over a bit, get feedback, and talk to my connections and see, but a Tinkerbell could definitely work its way onto my team.

    Skarmory will be an issue, but it really can't afford to Roost against my team except against T-Tar. Burning it will also help Cinkeldurr set up on foes brave enough to throw a Brave Bird out. I could see Volcarona sliding into the last spot to help alleviate Fighting-type stress, provide extra Special Attack support, and give my team an effective Steel-type killer. Thank you both for your suggestions, jesusfreak inparticular as you gave me a solution to a problem.​
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012

    #TWERKTEAM Banned

    lol wifi

    Volcarona doesn't help a bit against fighting types because it has very little defense and the most used fighting type also happens to be rock, not to mention it can 2HKO Volcarona with it's fighting move anyway. Your team is also incredibly weak to opposing Volcarona's since you're prioritizing the wrong things. No one uses Suicune in OU and Vaporeons are extremely rare. Snorlax isn't used in OU anymore either. Any fighting type also 6-0's this team due to you prioritizing the wrong thing. In a game plagued by fighting types, you have a team with 2 weaks and no resists. You might want to try to replace Cloyster with a Deoxys-D. I know you want to keep your team as offensive as possible but believe me, it's not working for you. To help your trouble with Volcarona you could replace your Conkeldurr with a BandedTerrakion, something that strikes fear in the hearts of all men.
  9. Rhys29

    Rhys29 Encore

    Perhaps I didn't convey my goal with this team clearly? I'm well aware I won't see these threats in normal competitive, but I'm not playing normal competitive. Since I'm in a very closed circuit, where I know each of my opponent's threats quite well, I am preparing for threats I know I will see while making sure I'm not stupidly weak to other things I may see in passing. I would love to prepare for Garchomp, as some of the people at work don't respect or obey the standard tiering, but I don't think I'll be playing those players anyways. I agree this team won't function that well in normal competitive, but that isn't what I'm looking for.

    I agree Volcarona is not a good substitute. Next time I suggest something I'll try to be sober and post before 2 in the morning :/ and now that I look at my team I can see Jellicent fitting quite nicely in Rotom's place. It shuts down CroCune and can Toxic if it isn't, and a +6 Ice Beam barely phases a 252 HP/ 0 Sp.D Jelli. Since I'll have the most reliable MixApe counter, I can also switch to Fire Blast on Tyranitar to help alleviate some Skarmory stress. With this, I can switch Cloyster to Ferrothorn so I can break down bulky Water-types while keeping EHs on the field. I've also switched up Tyranitar's EVs to better deal with Volcarona, who I don't think I'll see much, but a standard bulky set will fall about 80% of the time.​

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