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[old guard truthseeker]

The script writer would likely just translate the script if left to themselves. Also don't forget LoT was dubbed a different crew altogether. The dub script is actually very close the original in the main series. It's the paint edits and music edits that were annoying. And putting a western joke in place of Japanese joke that wouldn't work in English is fine by me (as long as they aren't corny).

I'm only jumping in here because I do know the scriptwriter (Carter) fairly well, and have spent a bit of time asking him about some of the things you're talking about. There are several problems with leaving the script as translated, one main one being that the jump from japanese to english just isn't funny. Meowth, in translated japanese is about as stodgy as you can get. Jessie sort of makes the cut across the language barrier, although it's not with humor - it's really her attitude that makes it. Brock's not funny when he goes girl crazy either, and a real scene killer would be to let Max say what he says when he's dragging Brock out of the room. They *all* can be funny, but they're not in translation.

There are a lot of characters just echoing what was previously said, which must be more interesting or expected in japanese ("I'm going with Charizard!" Reply - "Charizard, huh?" Not exactly whiz-bang dialog).

Finally, it appears that the japanese are much more forgiving of the lip flap (which doesn't match at all in japanese) then the american market - I would say the english looks at least 100% better - like it really was written for english.

 

[The Great Butler]

Eh, I'm disappointed still, but hey, at least Sarah can do more than just Ash, just like Veronica used to. I think the best thing is that they discovered her as a VA talent, I can see her going places. And she's so young.....I'm very impressed on that front.

 

[Yamato-san]

I'm only jumping in here because I do know the scriptwriter (Carter) fairly well, and have spent a bit of time asking him about some of the things you're talking about. There are several problems with leaving the script as translated, one main one being that the jump from japanese to english just isn't funny. Meowth, in translated japanese is about as stodgy as you can get. Jessie sort of makes the cut across the language barrier, although it's not with humor - it's really her attitude that makes it. Brock's not funny when he goes girl crazy either, and a real scene killer would be to let Max say what he says when he's dragging Brock out of the room. They *all* can be funny, but they're not in translation.

OK, I really think this needs clearing up. OGT, you've said quite often that the characters aren't that funny in the original version, but so far as I'm concerned, that's far from the truth. I think the problem is that, from what I've seen, Japanese media doesn't tend to rely on one-liners for humor near as much as English media does. I even heard somewhere that if you watch an English movie that's been subbed/dubbed into Japanese, what was originally a quirky, funny one-liner in the English version will be converted into a rather plain phrase like "that's cool" or "I'm alright". It seems to be more a matter of culture shock, really (which, nontheless, still proves your point about editting the script).

 

[old guard truthseeker]

OK, I really think this needs clearing up. OGT, you've said quite often that the characters aren't that funny in the original version, but so far as I'm concerned, that's far from the truth. I think the problem is that, from what I've seen, Japanese media doesn't tend to rely on one-liners for humor near as much as English media does. I even heard somewhere that if you watch an English movie that's been subbed/dubbed into Japanese, what was originally a quirky, funny one-liner in the English version will be converted into a rather plain phrase like "that's cool" or "I'm alright". It seems to be more a matter of culture shock, really (which, nontheless, still proves your point about editting the script).

I'm not saying it's not funny...not at all. The visuals obviously are hilarious. I'm saying it's not funny when you translate it from japanese to english. It's lost in translation. Of course the japanese have a great sense of humor. But it needs to be rewritten. Hey - maybe the english have no sense of humor! But whatever it is, it needs to be ours. And the lip flap...well...those old japanese movies and Saturday Night Live takeoffs where they start speaking before and after the lips start moving...it happens all the time in Pokemon. I think the english dub is miles above the japanese in that regard.

 

[Shift]

I think that's how it is in most anime; from what I've seen, I don't particularly mind it as long as they don't speak before the mouth is open or keep speaking while the mouth is closed. Japanese seems to be a more free-flowing language, which is probably why they don't pay as much attention to the exact mouth movements; I don't think it's really detrimental at all, just different.

Strangely enough, they do the vocals after the animation is finished just like anime companies do for the dubs, while all animation made for America has the vocals done first and the animation set to that.

 

[Heracross]

I haven't noticed a lip flap problem at all in the originals. If that does happen often it must not be very noticeable, or you're just much more observant than I am.

 

[Trainer Rachel]

I think that's how it is in most anime; from what I've seen, I don't particularly mind it as long as they don't speak before the mouth is open or keep speaking while the mouth is closed. Japanese seems to be a more free-flowing language, which is probably why they don't pay as much attention to the exact mouth movements; I don't think it's really detrimental at all, just different.

Strangely enough, they do the vocals after the animation is finished just like anime companies do for the dubs, while all animation made for America has the vocals done first and the animation set to that.

Alright, glad that's cleared up. I've been noticing how in the Japanese version the lip-flaps aren't perfect, but then I thought that maybe *somehow and some reason* whenever a Japanese epsiode was uploaded to the computer, the audio would drag like a split second behind it... but I see that's not the case.

 

[intergalactic platypus]

I haven't noticed a lip flap problem at all in the originals. If that does happen often it must not be very noticeable, or you're just much more observant than I am.

I'm slightly confused Heracross. Are you referring to good lip flap in a raw translation to English? Becuase it never turns out that way really due to English words being different. The grammatical structure also makes little sense to us IIRC. If your referring to lip flap in the original, I don't see why it would be off if its in their own language

 

[Heracross]

Yeah, I was talking about the original episodes. I wouldn't be that surprised if the syllables didn't match the flaps all the time, but I don't recall ever seeing a person begin or continue talking when their mouth wasn't moving.

 

[HoennMaster]

The original version has tons of lip-flap problems but I doubt they care.

 

[intergalactic platypus]

I think OGT was referring to old movies that were really badly subbed, not the original stuff

 

[Shift]

I'm slightly confused Heracross. Are you referring to good lip flap in a raw translation to English? Becuase it never turns out that way really due to English words being different. The grammatical structure also makes little sense to us IIRC. If your referring to lip flap in the original, I don't see why it would be off if its in their own language

Here's the scoop: when the Japanese do an anime, they do the animation first, then they record the voices, just like anime is done here but the opposite way other American animation is done. The Japanese VAs have less of a regard for the exact lip placement then American VAs do, so they'll just speak without caring how the mouth is moving as long as they don't start or stop too early or late. To OGT, it's not bad, just a different way of doing things.

 

[Heracross]

I think OGT was referring to old movies that were really badly subbed, not the original stuff

Well, how else would you interpret this?

And the lip flap...well...those old japanese movies and Saturday Night Live takeoffs where they start speaking before and after the lips start moving...it happens all the time in Pokemon.

 

[HoennMaster]

A different way of doing things, but it does look very bad at points.

 

[Shift]

Well, how else would you interpret this?

Oh, now I see what he meant. I've seen some eps in Japanese and that's not how it is at all.

 

[intergalactic platypus]

Well, how else would you interpret this?

Oh I thought he meant the ridiculous translations of those films with no regard to lip flap. My bad

 

[old guard truthseeker]

I haven't noticed a lip flap problem at all in the originals. If that does happen often it must not be very noticeable, or you're just much more observant than I am.

Of course it all depends on what you see as a 'problem'. Some people don't mind things like lip flap. I know I love the japanese actors in Pokemon a lot, and the only reason why it bothers me that the flap is off is I've seen english episodes that were well-acted *and* well flapped. I'd have to go back and look through several MPGS of previous japanese Pokemon episodes I've got to see where the dialog started before the lips started moving, but I know I've seen that as well. The main culprit, I would suspect is that the dialog is dubbed after the visuals are done, as Shift mentioned. That doesn't make any sense to me doing it that way, but then again, I've grown up with Loony Toones and Sponge Bob.
For english, as you all probably know, most lines are dubbed one at a time, and the Pro Tools dubbing computer program allows for lots of editing and changing to get things to fit. If you notice there seems to be 2 or 3 animators drawing Pokemon, and one of them is a bit strange in the way he (she) does things - like drawing 2 flaps for saying 10 syllables. Talk about an adaptation challenge!

 

[Shigeru-kun]

The main culprit, I would suspect is that the dialog is dubbed after the visuals are done, as Shift mentioned. That doesn't make any sense to me doing it that way, but then again, I've grown up with Loony Toones and Sponge Bob.

It's just a guess, but I'd say the Japanese record dialogue second because the first sound containing cartoons all came from overseas. Like they became so use to the dubbing over process that they continued to work that way when they began animating their own shows.

 

[old guard truthseeker]

It's just a guess, but I'd say the Japanese record dialogue second because the first sound containing cartoons all came from overseas. Like they became so use to the dubbing over process that they continued to work that way when they began animating their own shows.

Makes sense, and works for me!

 

[TwilightFacade]

Hmm well it seems that all of the voices have improved. (Particularly NewBrock) NewNewAsh needs to get into the groove, but once she does, she'll do fine. It seems like the future of the dub is looking bright.

Now about that 9th season opening, the song sounds good...short but good. I am disappointed that most of Spurt was cut out-I can understand if they don't wanna spoil certain things-but from what I can make out Eevee and Donphan are in the intro. They seem to rely a lot on episode clips-which is disappointing since they have an entire Japanese opening full of nice clips. Of course, it could be changed by the time the episodes start to air. (wishful thinking) All I want is a scene with all of Ash's Pokemon.