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For All Things Gay: Views on Homosexuality

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Fused, Dec 12, 2009.

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  1. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    Well since the last topic was closed and began to spill into other threads, it might just be best if we have one place for all of these ideas to be collected in.

    Obviously, the Gay Rights movement has quite a bit to fight for right now: gay marriage, gay adoption, discrimination laws, you get the picture.

    In here, you can talk about how you feel about homosexuality in general, or something closely related to it, such as the couple of things I listed above. And then obviously when we get some people posting in here, you can debate about how others feel about these issues.

    So just go for it, and obvious (and not-so-obvious) debate forum rules apply.
     
  2. Mawile412

    Mawile412 Problem

    i see nothing wrong with being gay; however i do see something wrong for hationg gays. we're all people and we shouldnt treat eachother differently, even if we like different thing or look different.
     
  3. Mr. Joker

    Mr. Joker keep calm & carry on

    Nothing is wrong with Homosexuality. You are who you are and no one should be able to take that from you, personal life or work life.

    [/coming from a bisexual]
     
  4. J.T.

    J.T. ಠ_ಠ

    Continuing from the reverse sexual orientation discrimination (that's a mouthful) thread.

    I'm not stopping anyone from doing that, either. If you want to be an idiot, go ahead.

    Lesbians can get pregnant from a man as well, they just don't want to. What you're saying is like saying a woman who rejects sex with a man has a disorder.

    So you're also advocating not allowing sterile people to have sex?

    However, gays can have safer sex. Condoms and lubricant and such allow for less risk of disease. You're saying all these heterosexual people can have sex as long as they do it safely, but you're pulling a double-standard for gays by saying they can't do it even if they do it safely.

    No, the kids are always hurt by pedophiles molesting them. Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone but the two (or more, if they're into that sort of thing) willing, able participants who know what they're doing and the consequences of doing it. I could just as validly make a comparison between heterosexual sex and pedophilia, but that would sound ridiculous. Why is your comparison any more valid?

    I'm against laws like this too, for the record. Unless someone can prove their eyes melted out of their sockets by looking at a guy's house and that it could happen to anyone who looks at it, it's ******** to dictate what you can and can't do with your own property.

    Then that would mean they're bisexual.
     
  5. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    I wanted to keep the first post a general welcoming.

    Well but think about it. Heterosexuality describes the relationship between two people of the opposite sex. if a heterosexual person were to fall in love with someone of the same sex, then it can not be rationally concluded that the heterosexual in question is indeed heterosexual.

    Your flaw is that you strongly believe that sexual orientation lies in genes and genes alone, and there is nothing saying that it doesn't have something to do with genes, but so much more affects sexual orientation. Anyways, as I've already explained, sexual orientations (heterosexuality, homosexuality) describe who you have sex with, but promiscuity deals with how many people you have sex with. One encompasses the sex of the other partner, but promiscuity does not.

    In said medical procedure, you are still using tissue for something it was not specifically designed to do. Some animals do use their mouths as a form of communication, but others don't. Which ones then are moral or immoral. I also enjoy your last line as that is what everyone has been trying to tell you from the moment you started debating this.

    If women are not more likely to get anal cancer, then why is it estimated that more women than men will be diagnosed with it? Or why is it that more women than men died from it? You may be confusing this with prostate cancer, which has no link to any kind of viral infection as a result of sex. And anal sex would be useful in detecting prostate cancer, would it not?

    Well if you're going to say that homosexual sex is wrong because it is risky (which really only applies to anal sex, something which isn't homosexually exclusive) then you aren't merely talking about sex, you need to include all risky behaviors. And if you can elaborate why we need cars to form an advanced, efficient, modern society (seeing as how cars and planes give off fumes that are destroying our atmosphere) then I suggest you do so. And guess what, you don't need a trampoline for anything, or bike, or swings, or tattoos, so are these immoral as well?
     
  6. Willow's Tara

    Willow's Tara The Bewitched

    Well everyone knows where I stand. Love is love and that's just it, you can't change anything. It shouldn't be illegal to love someone. How would you like it if suddenly straights couldn't marry or adopt etc. To love someone so much but feel like the whole world is against you just because of one different detail. Homosexuals have every right to love and be together, to get married, to have sex or adopt children, they shouldn't be denied this and people who think exactly that have no morals if you ask me.

    wordy- Please don't EVER compared homosexuality to pedophila. It has nothing to do with it, and for the quote yes pedophilla hurts children and is sick. Homosexuality is two consenting people who are in love, you want to know what hurts homosexuality? Homophobia and people like you who think they cannot be with the person they love the most. And maybe it's just me but half of the time on TV one of the best couples are usually homosexuals (Willow/Tara, Kevin/Brian? Forgot which etc)
     
  7. IMPERIAL DRAGON

    IMPERIAL DRAGON Enemy Of Reality

    With all the real issues going on in our current society, it still baffles me as to why so many people get involved in raging debate over sexuality, or at least the sort of men who get incredibly offended by the concept of men being gay. I’m not undermining gay rights at all, it just personally annoys me how certain straight people feel the urge to condemn a section of society that blatantly has no effect on them, I feel there are more pressing matters to address than the morality of homosexuality. Although I agree it should be an open topic with less of a stigma attached, it seriously confuses me as to why it’s such a common political discussion, even more irritating is the straight male culture to constantly judge gay men.

    I’m straight, pretty much the closest example you’ll get to a modern manly man, but I have several gay friends, and while I’m pretty right wing politically, I just see little attraction to concerning myself with the gay issue. A majority of the gay guys I’ve known have been fine so obviously I have no reason or motivation to question their sexuality; I’d be no more irritated if a gay man tried it on with me than if an ugly woman did, since either way they’d both get the same response. To be honest, in a strange twist of fate, straight men should be grateful for homosexuality, since it means less competition for us from other males when trying to find a woman.

    Gay marriage is fine, it doesn’t intrude on my life so why should I object; everyone deserves that right to commitment. I’m slightly divided on gay adoption, but I suppose two homosexuals in a solid relationship who want to be parents are just as capable as a straight couple. In fact, it’s a better option to the ridiculous amount of single mothers out there raising some illegitimate child who has a non existent father figure, since many men these days do a disappearing act as soon as they’ve emptied their sack.

    I reckon people who oppose gay rights just need a bit of perspective and turn their attention to something more constructive, since there are far worse things going on right now than homosexuals getting hitched and engaging in a bit of buggery.

    Always makes me laugh how many gay people there are on this site, like far greater than the amount of homosexuals you find in every crowd, kind of cliché when you think about it.

    I’ll tell you one thing that pisses me off far more than all this, straight guys who act/ dress gay, that’s just plain stupid. But that’s because I believe men should be men, women should be women and so on, none of this blurring the lines between the genders crap. Oddly enough, whenever I call anyone a fag it’s the straight guys who go for the gay look.
     
  8. Mandi.

    Mandi. 3:

    Everybody knows I'm 100% for gays.
    But I do understand the people who would feel awkward seeing it. I mean, that's normal. The only thing that pisses me off is the people who will openly be assholes about it to someone else. It's fine if you don't like gays and all. (really, if you're going to hate on someone because of that ..well that's your problem.) But to call someone a fag and be serious about it or crack on them for their sexuality, is just pathetic.

    Homosexuality should be treated the exact same as heterosexuality. If two people love each other, well then they are meant to be together, and nobody has a say in it, except for those two.
     
  9. I don't know what I could say that hasn't been touched upon above, in terms of agreeing that homosexuals should not be discriminated against in any form.

    Homophobia is slowly deteriorating it seems as the old generation dies off and new generation's ideas seep through.
     
  10. Vaporeon4evr

    Vaporeon4evr Cyndakill

    I think homosexuality is the root of all evil. Gay marriage leads to other, harder drugs like heroin and cocaine.

    EDIT: I must admit that I am very impressed with you, wordy936. You're doing a fine job of arguing your side respectably and maturely. Your opinion may be unpopular, but it is a valid opinion nonethless, and you are supporting it very capably. That's no easy task. I must say that I respect your audacity and maturity in this debate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  11. Venomfrog

    Venomfrog Perpetual Observer

    I have nothing wrong with homosexuals, and after initially thinking there was a choice in the matter, I now know it to be a natural feeling for those who do feel it. I have always been tolerant of homosexuality and been progressively more understanding of it.

    I realize that there are other problems which may seem more pressing than the sexuality debate right now, but it is not something to be disregarded at all, since there are still many societies which persecute gays, often to revolting extents (capital punishment, for example).

    In Canada it is almost universally accepted, but homosexuals still face many challenges worldwide in achieving identical rights to heterosexuals. One of the greatest obstacles is an ingrained bias toward those who engage in homosexual relations as opposed to heterosexual relations, a bias which has been largely overcome in some societies but which remains a factor when assessing just how much the gay communities of the world have won since the centuries of harsh oppression.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  12. Grei

    Grei not the color

    I'm sort of comparing it to racial discrimination. Pretty much every race (except for whites, on a major scale) has endured discrimination, yet it has all died down because people have learned to accept the racial differences (granted, racism towards blacks is still prevalent, but keep in mind that the true fight for black rights didn't come until about 60 years ago).

    I feel that, in time, homosexuality too will come to be accepted--all we need is time.
     
  13. Raichu4u

    Raichu4u I'm not josh'n

    This shouldn't even be debated.

    Straight couples outnumber gay couples, so it's nothing if we legalize gay marriage. Just let them get married, it's not like it will ruin your life, you can still love the people you do, live the wants you want, etc.

    And if religion comes into topic, love the sinner, hate the sin. And if this can't get past some of your heads, is it your duty to correct everyone's sins?
     
  14. CSolarstorm

    CSolarstorm New spicy version

    XDDDD Funny! However, you were the one who said that males are not designed for male on male sex. J.T. explained a way in which they are, so he legitimately corrected you. Please, face your opponent properly. You never said that males are not designed for male on pinecone sex, so that is you changing topics in order to avoid the validity of his statement.

    Poor pinecones.

    Children are hurt are by pedophilia. That's why it isn't justified...*insert expletive here*

    Sterile heteros do not have a disordered and unnatural lifestyle. Within that sentence you exhibited a flagrant double standard. "The fact that lesbians can't have children proves that their lifestyle is unnatural and disordered." However, "The fact that sterile heteros can't have children simply means that they have a problem which makes them sterile." Not the same statement; a disordered and unnatural lifestyle =/= sterility.

    Your definition of orientation is way beyond the point, Wordy. Promiscuity is not an orientation. First of all, an orienation refers to several ways to be one thing. Hetero- or Homo- sexual. In order for promiscuity to be an orientation, there would have to be a promiscuous orienation and a non-promiscuous orientation, and neither of them would have any comparability with Hetero- and Homo- sexuality.

    Secondly, there is no reason to consider promiscuity is an "orientation" in the same way that Hetero- and Homo- sexuality are. Both Hetero- and Homo- sexual practices may be promiscuous, so there is no reason to consider promiscuity a separate orientation.

    I agree that two wrongs don't make a right - but there is no reason to establish homosexual practices as wrong. Stick to the point! If you buy a brand new TV and you smash it with a hammer, you have done nothing wrong. If you slap yourself, your have done nothing wrong. If you practice unsafe heterosexual sex, you have done nothing wrong because there was consent on the behalf of both parties. Being unsafe, being sloppy, taking risks or being destructive is not firmly established as "wrong". Furthermore, right and wrong are abstract labels in this case. What we are arguing is what should be legal and what shouldn't be legal - and the fact that we don't have sex police enforcing safe sex on the behalf of heterosexuals, there is no reason to condemn homosexuals for engaging in similarly risky sex. It's just legal precedence!

    And if a sort of "sex police" were to crack down on risky sexual practices, since J.T. and Fused detailed exactly how to make homosexual sexual practices safe, there would be a way in which homosexuals could still be allowed to do these practices, simply in a safe manner, just as heterosexuals would be forced to do their practices in a safe manner as well.

    Conclusion: There is no reason that everyone HAS to adopt your way of thinking, Wordy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  15. wordy936

    wordy936 Well-Known Member

    Fused,

    I'm sorry. You are asking too many questions that, if you slowed down and thought about them, you could probably answer yourself. For example, you wrote: "If women are not more likely to get anal cancer, then why is it estimated that more women than men will be diagnosed with it? Or why is it that more women than men died from it?" Let's assume that is true (but I'd like to see a study or two documenting it). The answer has to do with the fact that there are so many more women than there are homosexuals.

    It's a similar situation with AIDS. Because there are so many more heterosexuals than there are homosexuals in this country, there are more AIDS cases in heterosexuals than homosexuals. BUT THE AIDS RATE FOR HOMOSEXUALS IS 50 TIMES THE AIDS RATE FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN.

    I'd like to answer your other questions, but you are demanding too much time to answer questions that---no offense---you should be able to answer yourself if you thought more objectively. In your devotion to trying to rationalize a physiologically unnatural, disordered lifestyle, I fear your emotions are clouding your judgment.
     
  16. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    And so is the black/white ratio despite blacks only making up 12/13% of the country. GET RID OF BLACKS.
     
  17. wordy936

    wordy936 Well-Known Member

    J.T.,

    C'mon J.T. You and Fused seem to have a similar mindset, so see my response to him. I'd say something similar to you. For example, you wrote: "So you're also advocating not allowing sterile people to have sex?" You concluded that somehow from my "Just like sterile heteros who resort to artificial means of getting pregnant are showing they have a disorder---whatever makes them sterile."

    I was clearly making a point about disorders. Sterile heteros can have all the moral sex they want. But immoral sex exists, whether it's safe or unsafe. (Heck, even pedophiles can have safe sex with children.) And homosexual sex---physiologically unnatural, disordered homosexual sex---is immoral and is also clearly a bad legal precedent.

    You, like Fused, also ask too many questions that you should be able to answer yourself with more calm and objective thought.
     
  18. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    However, in my question, and in these studies, sexual oreintationw a snot taken into account. Pointing the cancer light on homosexuals does not work here because sexual oreintation did not play a factor in these studies. Not to mention, if homosexual men are more likely to engage in anal sex, the number of men with anal cancer should still be higher than that of women.

    If it's that much higher, than after 20+ years, don't you think homosexuals would be the majority of AIDS victims?

    First, J.T. technically was the one who posed you with the physiological question. Second, several times we have explained to you how homosexuality is not a disorder (I can detail it again if you would like me to). So basically all you are saying is that you are in a debate thread without any intention of answering my questions.

    Well you've been arguing that since homosexuals don't procreate, their sex is immoral. Sterile couples don't procreate, so why is their sex moral?

    I would really like to know how you connects ex to disorder to morality to legality. It doesn't seem to make sense. We need to define first what morlait yis, since all of your arguments seem to hinge on that. So tell us, what are morals?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  19. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    You didn't respond to his point. He was clearly making a point that not being able to have children is not a disorder.

    Then you say pedophilia is safe while homosexuality isn't what in the Sam Hill is this.

    "Come on, can't you figure out I'm right on your own? Stop asking me these questions that challenge my opinions!"
     
  20. wordy936

    wordy936 Well-Known Member

    GhostAnime,

    C'mon. I already addressed that. Unsafe sex is wrong by whites, blacks, etc. It shouldn't be engaged in. Period. But black heterosex is good. Homosexual sex is not good. That's just the way it is.
     
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