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For All Things Gay: Views on Homosexuality

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Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
@ fused it works both way, there could be a 99% chance the gay parents could do something "naughty" to the child

Well, I meant that the gay aprents wouldn't do anythign harmful tot he child, but that seems a little irrelevant since now you yourself have admitted, somewhat off-handed, that parenting skills don't hinge on sexual orientation.

@ kyogre..., dont be stupid im certain adoption and foster people have social workers who do that -_-, and how is it automatically that the same sex couple are gonna provide a great atmosphere? please tell me...

How are straight couples automatically going to provide a better atmosphere?

@ J.T, you see im doing this from the childs persepctive and not the adults and i am certain that the child will not have it the same if he had same sex parents for multi reasons such as confusion espicially near puperty, teasing (children can be cruel) and depending on what personality the parents have other things as well...

Confusion on what? Sexual orientation isn't really something that can be changed by who raises you. gender roles? Well you are then assuming that gay men are effeminate and will raise a "girly" son. Or that lesbians are butch and will raise a "manly" daughter.

And children tease other children regardless, and other children will be like "That's awesome!"
 

J.T.

ಠ_ಠ
@ fused it works both way, there could be a 99% chance the gay parents could do something "naughty" to the child

I think he was saying that more because you were generalizing about who's automatically a better parent.

@ kyogre..., dont be stupid im certain adoption and foster people have social workers who do that -_-

Kyogre's point was that you are not the judge, so stop acting like you are.

and how is it automatically that the same sex couple are gonna provide a great atmosphere? please tell me...

Um, did he say that? Because I didn't get that out of anything anyone has said.

@ J.T, you see im doing this from the childs persepctive and not the adults and i am certain that the child will not have it the same if he had same sex parents for multi reasons

Um, hey. Did you happen to read my source at all? Because this covered both sides - the children did not turn out any different when raised by two lesbians than they did when raised by a heterosexual couple. I'd really like it if you'd not pull assumptions out of your rear end like that.

My source is more about the Canadian conservatives trying to dodge the study than the study itself, but it does have information on the study as well.

such as confusion espicially near puperty

"Confusion" during puberty happens with like 99% of the population. What a straight child raised by gay parents would feel would be no different than a gay child raised by straight parents - except hopefully with less chance of being preached to about the evilness of their orientation.

teasing (children can be cruel)

Children are cruel, yes. Children will find absolutely any reason to pick on another person - skin color, intelligence (or lack of - you're screwed either way), physical fitness, wearing glasses. I've even seen kids get bullied for having interracial parents. (The douchebag who did it then went on to get expelled much later. Karma, people.) Using "they'll get picked on" is a ridiculous excuse unless you're for banning glasses and such as well.

and depending on what personality the parents have other things as well...

Oh, you mean like the exact same thing that is of concern in straight people as well?
 

striker

I AM THAT IS
@ fused, my argument isnt that they cant treat as well, its the effect on the child, i guess i should of made that clearer.

Yeah but im not sure how old you are or what kind of school you went to or the values you guys had but children can be a right ***** about stuff which can have psychological effects on the victim.

@ J.T same thing, its not about parenting but the actual child i just said that for the sake of the argument and i was clearly not judging -_-

there was a source? i completely missed that, if you could post it again please.

(im doing a little thinking in how to reply to your confusion point)

Like i said to Fused i dont know where you came from but they wont just get "pciked on" i was trying to sound nice, persecution is a better word, from what ive seen it wouldnt be pretty nor would it be just one person, and the child wont just get over it as if it was something petty.

And i was going more on the lines of Social Learning Theory if you know what that is? And Psychodynamic Theory when it comes to Child & Gender Development
 
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Grei

not the color
@ fused, my argument isnt that they cant treat as well, its the effect on the child, i guess i should of made that clearer.

Really? Says who?

I'm positive there are gay couples out there who can parent better than some of the "parents" I know. Your claim is baseless and ignorant.
 

Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
@ fused, my argument isnt that they cant treat as well, its the effect on the child, i guess i should of made that clearer.

The effect on the child? What are these efefcts and how are they inherently bad or negative?

Yeah but im not sure how old you are or what kind of school you went to or the values you guys had but children can be a right ***** about stuff which can have psychological effects on the victim.

As J.T. said, child will find any reason to tease someone else. Besides, when using this as an argument, you hinder your own cause: you say that having gay parents would be a bad thing yet you don't seem to be wanting to dispell the myth that they are bad parents.
 

striker

I AM THAT IS
^ FFS is anyone listening(reading) @grei

IM NOT SAYING THEY CANT DO A GOOD PARENTING JOB OR BETTER! i was talking about the effect on the child
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
Really? Says who?

I'm positive there are gay couples out there who can parent better than some of the "parents" I know. Your claim is baseless and ignorant.

That's true. Our neighbors are gay and they have children they've adopted. I'd say their kids are better looked after than most kids I know.
 

Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
^ FFS is anyone listening(reading) @grei

IM NOT SAYING THEY CANT DO A GOOD PARENTING JOB OR BETTER! i was talking about the effect on the child

What are these effects? How are they bad? How do they hinder a child's place in society?
 

BUG

insert joke so dated I don't even remember it
Bug- Not that I care about you what you think, because you don't care what I think but care to elaborate for us? I think I know what you are getting at, you mean people like me.. what fighting for homosexual rights?

If you don't care why are you replying? I'm just saying you can't get mad at him for generalizing and then generalize everyone against gay rights.

Well, remember in the last homosexuality thread how everyone was complaining about being labeled as "you pro-homosexual people?" Well ya'll just said "people like you" referring to those with opposing views. I think that's what Bug may have meant... Time for some sensitivity training!

Anyways... At the end of the day, both parties shall walk away with their heads held high, knowing how absolutely right they are.
+1
 
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J.T.

ಠ_ಠ
If you don't care why are you replying? I'm just saying you can't get mad at him for generalizing and then generalize everyone against gay rights.

I'm sorry, the only thing I saw there that was remotely like a generalization was Willow basically saying "people like you are against gays". Did I miss something?

@ fused, my argument isnt that they cant treat as well, its the effect on the child, i guess i should of made that clearer.

Which is different how?

Yeah but im not sure how old you are or what kind of school you went to or the values you guys had but children can be a right ***** about stuff which can have psychological effects on the victim.

I think you ignored my point.

@ J.T same thing, its not about parenting but the actual child i just said that for the sake of the argument and i was clearly not judging -_-

You were saying

Really and trully i feel same sex couples should be at the bottom of the que when it comes to adoption and fostering because i dont feel it will benefit the child to live in such an atmosphere but if there is no choice...

How is that not being judgmental.

there was a source? i completely missed that, if you could post it again please.

... Alternatively, you could look back at my posts (on the last page) and find it yourself. Anyway, it's here. If you want more, just Google "better parents gay or straight", or search up the study by Paul Hastings.

Like i said to Fused i dont know where you came from but they wont just get "pciked on" i was trying to sound nice, persecution is a better word

And whose fault is that? The kids for being intolerant little bigots, or the parents for being gay?

Let me follow your logic for a moment. Stop me if I get ridiculous.

"Okay, so we want to prevent kids from being persecuted. Instead of trying to support tolerance of their parents' orientation, we should just persecute the parents of the children that we're afraid will be persecuted (counterproductive? what's that mean), and keep the gay parents from adopting kids. Less paperwork that way."
"... Sir, we're receiving reports about children being persecuted for having interracial parents. Should we ban those too?"
"Ah, hell, why not. It's only fair, right?"

from what ive seen it wouldnt be pretty nor would it be just one person, and the child wont just get over it as if it was something petty.

That's awesome. Racism is just as prevalent. Let's keep black people from having children. Does that sound fair?

And i was going more on the lines of Social Learning Theory if you know what that is? And Psychodynamic Theory when it comes to Child & Gender Development

Okay, now explain to me how this is made different from the couple being gay, keeping in mind that lesbian parents have been shown to be no worse than straight parents in studies.

IM NOT SAYING THEY CANT DO A GOOD PARENTING JOB OR BETTER! i was talking about the effect on the child

Again, how are these any different? You're saying "the parents aren't worse, the children will just come out worse". That's pretty contradictory.
 
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Mawile412

Problem
as long as the parents are good to the child, the child will turn out fine. i actually think a child raised by gay couples will be more aware to not judge people.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
as long as the parents are good to the child, the child will turn out fine. i actually think a child raised by gay couples will be more aware to not judge people.

You mean more tolerant? Maybe.

Not sure if just being good to children alone will make them grow up properly though.
 

Willow's Tara

The Bewitched
Bug- And you also missed where I apologized for doing so. And I wanted to know what I was being a hypocrite about so I could think about what I said and then when I realized you were right (*Shocks! *Dies and the world explodes...*) I apologized because you had a point.
Mawile- I agree with you but in the end sometimes the kid could have most perfect family but sometimes they end up bad through nobody's fault.
 

J.T.

ಠ_ಠ
I think he meant it as in just being nice and teaching them tolerance doesn't make them a better parent.

Although Mawile never said they'd be overall better parents.
 

CSolarstorm

New spicy version
I've said this before, but studies have been done to see if there's a significant difference between gay and straight parents. You know what makes gays worse parents? Jack ****. If anything, they may be better parents. If you want more sources, just Google "better parents gay or straight".

Aw J.T., are you sure that site isn't biased toward the Gay Agenda?™ *sarcasm*

@ J.T, you see im doing this from the childs persepctive and not the adults and i am certain that the child will not have it the same if he had same sex parents for multi reasons such as confusion espicially near puperty, teasing (children can be cruel) and depending on what personality the parents have other things as well...

Let me give you a "child's" perspective, since I was raised by a lesbian couple.

I don't think same sex couples should be at the bottom of the que when when it comes to adoption. That spot should be reserved for single parents. I was raised by lesbian parents and they don't do too bad. I think the personality and the geniune qualities of the people matter more than sexual orientation when it comes to raising a child. I was lucky enough to be born handicapped to a nurse! And when it comes to bullying, honestly I think our youth is more focused on bullying homophobes and drug users than gay people. I know I was bugged about it maybe once when I in elementary school, but when I showed a picture of my cat to my friends that had a case of beer in the background my friends teased me for weeks saying, "YER PARENTS ARE DRUNKS!"

By the way, please don't equate gays to sexual deviants. There is no legitimate chance they'll do something "naughty" to their child any more than a heterosexual couple looking for adoption.

If you don't care why are you replying? I'm just saying you can't get mad at him for generalizing and then generalize everyone against gay rights.

Te quo - just because someone generalizes your side doesn't legitimize other generalizing, that's a two wrongs make a right.
 
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BUG

insert joke so dated I don't even remember it
Bug- And you also missed where I apologized for doing so. And I wanted to know what I was being a hypocrite about so I could think about what I said and then when I realized you were right (*Shocks! *Dies and the world explodes...*) I apologized because you had a point.
Excuse my lack of reading.

Te quo - just because someone generalizes your side doesn't legitimize other generalizing, that's a two wrongs make a right.

I'm pro-homo though.
 

Ethan

Banned
What I personally am frustrated as a conservative Christian, is that anyone that disagrees with having a homosexual lifestyle, or gay marriage in particular, is automatically labled homophobic. I don't agree with homosexuality, I don't think you are born with it, and I don't agree with gay marriage either, and it is largely because of religious beliefs that I hold to be true. That most certianly doesn't mean that I fear you, in any way shape or form. If I wet myself on the Ellen Degeneres show, then I guess you can say such.

As to why I believe that homosexuality is a choice, is because I do not think there is sufficient scientific evidence to show otherwise. That does not mean I deny the findings that the scientific community has made. Yes, I understand the studies they have done on the size of the hypothalumus, as well the digit length theory, but nothing concretely proves that it's not your choice.

Rather, I would say it points to genetic predisposition. So that means I agree that homosexuality is indeed, not a choice, correct? Not necessarily. Predisposition just means that you are more likely to act or behave in a certian way than others. Many people are genetically predisposed to be alcoholic, but not all of them are alcoholics. In the same sense that some men are more masculine than others, and some are more feminine than others. Therefore I do not think gays or lesbians are "excused" morally because they "didn't have a choice." After all, how can something be a sin if you had no choice in the matter?

That's not to say that I think hate crimes towards gays and other slander is acceptable either by any means. Granted "Hate the sin, not the sinner" is a much overused cliche, but it holds true for some at least. I think its appalling that gays get hazed, beaten, bullied, and are over three times the risk of suicide than the average person.

Now as for gay marrage, and the whole notion that America doesn't really give "equal rights" to everyone, I don't think marriage is a matter of civil rights in the first place. The government is not against homosexuality. You may date another person of the same sex, you can drink from the same water fountians, go to the same schools, get the same jobs, go to the same restauraunts, etc. The only thing denied to you, is a union legally recognized by the government under the title of marriage. The fact that the gay community for the most part, equates their "plight" to that of the black civil rights movement is possibly the most insulting, fallacious, and down right ludicrous comparison I have ever had the displeasure of hearing. Maybe under president Eisenhower when they had cops arrest gays at restaurants for simply being gay, but definitley not now in 2009.

The reason why the union of marriage is denied to gay couples is because it is historically a religious institution with religious connotations. One may object and point to other cultures, oh what of Rome? India? What about ancient Greece? To me this is irrelevant. You don't live in Rome, you don't live in India, you don't live in acient Greece. In America and most nations of the West, marriage is still by and large not just a religious institution, but a Christian one.

In addition to this, many Christians fear that once gay marriage is legalized that churches will lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to marry a gay couple, and follow their own doctrine. Many object and say that can't happen, and that the government can't force churches to marry gay couples, and that saying otherwise is just plain fear mongering. However when you think about it, unless there is a specific line in the bill or some sort of legal protection for the church, the government coming in and closing the church down or a gay couple suing because they were refused marriage is completely fair game. Especially considering that each state in the U.S. defines its own marriage laws, and Minnesota even has its own constitution. The possibility of the church being threatened by the legalization of gay marriage and its classification as a civil right is a very real scenario and dismissing it is just plain ignorant.
 

The Dark Titan

Well-Known Member
I think homosexuality is the root of all evil. Gay marriage leads to other, harder drugs like heroin and cocaine.

Whoa! Easy there buddy!

First of, would you be so kind to tell me how two men or two women that love each other leads to drugs?

Also, waht does it affect you that two people from the same gender marry? that does not mean that other people of the same gender will love each other and marry atomatically, as if it were a disease. Hanging out with gay people won't make you gay, as hanging out with tall people won't make you tall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by striker
@ J.T, you see im doing this from the childs persepctive and not the adults and i am certain that the child will not have it the same if he had same sex parents for multi reasons such as confusion espicially near puperty, teasing (children can be cruel) and depending on what personality the parents have other things as well...


I'm going to answer to this as well. Being raised by homosexual couples doesn't mean that you'll be gay, just as being raised by heterosexual couples doesn't mean that you'll be straight.

Also, are you implying that these homosexual parents will atomatically be pedophiles and do "dirty" stuff with their children? There is a world of diference between being gay and being (no offense) sick.


At an end, we are all humans, all people have different likes, and that includes sexual preferences as well.

People should start peying more attention to what they say about this stuff, because the people you are insulting, or have bad views of, will one day come to you as your child wanting to be understood, and you willhave two options: either tell them to leave or keep loving them with this "fault" (which is not a bad thing of course)

And this is coming from a straight 16-year-old boy who thinks that adults should be more concious of what they say and/or think.
 

wordy936

Well-Known Member
Deku_Link and other like-minded people,

I'm comparing different sexual deviations. Sexual deviations are, almost by definition, RELATED---they are all sexual and they are all deviations. You can't get much more related than that. It's inconvenient for those who believe it's okay to discriminate against exhibitionists, but it's a fact.
 
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