For All Things Gay: Views on Homosexuality

[DarkMammoth]

listen all i can say is its not up for me to judge them it is god who decides.

it is how they live their lives. being good or being sinful

Ah, I must've misread your post before. I'm glad that someone who isn't necessarily fond of homosexuals at least acknoweldges that the bible says it's not our place to judge.

Sorry if I got confrontational.

 

[WynautQueen]

I think that if Jesus actually appeared and proved himself to be the son of God, you'd have a lot of reluctantly-shrugging atheists, me among them.

I mean, that doesn't automatically mean I'd worship him, but still. Who can say, if God exists (my money's on him not) what he really wants from us. After all, "taking God's name in vain" doesn't actually mean saying things like "Oh my god" or "lord in heaven" and "Jesus Christ!" as an exclamation-- taking God's name in vain actually refers to using God's name to spread your own ideology, a pretty popular practice.

 

[Dragons_Rock1988]

Ah, I must've misread your post before. I'm glad that someone who isn't necessarily fond of homosexuals at least acknoweldges that the bible says it's not our place to judge.

Sorry if I got confrontational.

Ha ha no problem. You noiticed your mistake and corrected it

Lack of knoladge and understanding = doubting
Doubting leads to lies conspiricies and = Fear
Fear = Hate
Hate = murder, genocide ect. = sin

u know what peeves me off? they say the more you learn the more the power to hate.

I went in and studied Islam at the only mosque thats within a hour to reach and the muslims are one of the nicest people in the world!

I made a fried there and his name is Belal and he is a family man. He is honest and caring!

Only if the Americans that are against Islam could take the time to study Islam theyd learn that the REAL Islam condems terrorism and murder. Al-Queda uses a fake version of Islam, Kinda like how the kkk and the nazis used a fake version of christianity to allow murdering of the innocent.

(I apologise for going offtopic there however this was a example)



@ WQ.

Well as I was saying like with my old views, I am trying to understand aethiests too.

My grandma told me that the scientists who are aethiest act aethiest but when things go wrong who do you think they pray to?

lol

 

[WynautQueen]

Uh... I'd be willing to guess that atheists don't pray to ANYONE when things go wrong. That's the case with me, anyway... That's kind of part of the package.

 

[Sapphiredragon929]

Ha ha no problem. You noiticed your mistake and corrected it

Lack of knoladge and understanding = doubting
Doubting leads to lies conspiricies and = Fear
Fear = Hate
Hate = murder, genocide ect. = sin

u know what peeves me off? they say the more you learn the more the power to hate.

I went in and studied Islam at the only mosque thats within a hour to reach and the muslims are one of the nicest people in the world!

I made a fried there and his name is Belal and he is a family man. He is honest and caring!

Only if the Americans that are against Islam could take the time to study Islam theyd learn that the REAL Islam condems terrorism and murder. Al-Queda uses a fake version of Islam, Kinda like how the kkk and the nazis used a fake version of christianity to allow murdering of the innocent.

(I apologise for going offtopic there however this was a example)



@ WQ.

Well as I was saying like with my old views, I am trying to understand aethiests too.

My grandma told me that the scientists who are aethiest act aethiest but when things go wrong who do you think they pray to?

lol

Well, technically, athiests will pray if something goes wrong (I've done that myself) but it's more of a reaction, than a conscious choice. Sometimes I catch myself praying and remember that there's no one uo there, so I don't need to do that. "God" can only do so much, I have to push myself the rest of the way.

And no offense but your grandma chose a...bad choice on science. :x but w/e.

Now on to my actual question: Are you for, or against homosexuality progressing in social and civil rights?

 

[J.T.]

Well, technically, athiests will pray if something goes wrong

Yeah, like how Christians pray to Xenu when something goes wrong.

Also, nice generalization.

 

[Dragons_Rock1988]

(heh you should see the scienteists shivering in fear xD )

ok lets get back to topic k guys?

 

[MrPostman]

listen all i can say is its not up for me to judge them it is god who decides.
it is how they live their lives. being good or being sinful

2 John 1:10 Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. (I'm a non-christian. Do not respond. )
Romans 16:17 Shun those who disagree with your religious views.
Colossians 2:8 Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy.

More judging;
1 John 2:22 Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 5:19 Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked.
2 John 1:7 The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ”
Hebrews 3:12 Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.”
Revelations 2:9, 3:9 False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.”

however i have come to realise hate is a sin and that Some of the verses could be out of date.

i have my own view of god and christ. and maby just maby some of the things in the bible could have been added or changed by the fanatical brittish during the middle ages (or the roman catholic)

i strongly believe Christ would not condem a gay man or a lesbian woman or someone who is bi. he would understand them.

i believe we should make new testiments (updated version for the rights and freedome of mankinmd) this will slow down if not stop the spread of aethiesum

Why would verses like killing gays be out of date? Why were they ever "in date" to begin with? Also, you're not allowed to "make new testAments", as that's "blasphemous" to your deity.

Revelation 22:18-9 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."
--

Besides, Jesus was cool with the old laws (including the one where you stone homosexuals and the one to kill children who disprect their parents (read Matthew 15:4-7)):

Matthew 5:18-19 “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke 16:17 "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."

John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Jesus never invalidated any laws saying to kill homosexuals. Ergo, you gotta kill some homosexuals! Q.E.D.

Only if the Americans that are against Islam could take the time to study Islam theyd learn that the REAL Islam condems terrorism and murder. Al-Queda uses a fake version of Islam, Kinda like how the kkk and the nazis used a fake version of christianity to allow murdering of the innocent.

The kkk and the nazis didn't have to do anything with the text. It was already there, to be taken advantage of. The bible's racist and pro-slavery don't you know? (I'm not even going to provide verses or links, look it up yourself.)

It's not hard to find passages in the Koran that seem to support the idea that Islam is a belligerent religion conducive to terrorism. The Koran not only promises "a disgraceful chastisement" (4.102) and "the fire of hell" (9.6) for "unbelievers," it urges Muslims not to "take the unbelievers for friends" (3.28).

Worse, it commands Muslims to "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness" (9.123). Elsewhere it says to "kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out....Such is the recompense of the unbelievers" (2.191).

IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.

"There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. At most there is a difference of degree but not of kind."

--

Without moderates, the fundamentalists would have no power.

My grandma told me that the scientists who are aethiest act aethiest but when things go wrong who do you think they pray to?

Vishnu. Stop. No really stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

I'm confused why you would think atheism (spell it right) is something to be stopped or slowed down, all things considered.

 

[Dragons_Rock1988]

dude you are harsh.

I am not going to give up my faith over what you have to say.

listen i AGREE some of the NT and OT articals are harsh verry harsh almost as harsh that it could not have been from god or his prophets. and support my believe that the FANATICS who btw killed jews, non christians, non whites and mentaly ill people must have edited the bible! and of course if you knew the truth you would be killed by the catholic church. so anybody who wanted to hint at this would either have been murdered or has had his doccuments lost throught the years.

for it says god is a loving god. what kind of god would allow the murder of different cultures? murder of people? his children?

this is why i have my own VIEW on christianity! and i honestly dont believe god would have split the tower of babel up into their own races cultures faiths if he did not want other religeons!

also if aethiesum was as true as u think why the heck did they not rise up and slaughter the whole god thing from day one of its history?

if it were true there would be no god today and anyone who believes in god would probaly be murdered

this is the kind of stuff said by aethiests that dim my view on them. i will hear no more of it!

also why arnt there aethiests that complain to satanists or wiccans? they have gods too.

and so i am done talking about religeon on this topic! i am not here to convert anybody!


please please please get back on topic.

so i was stating that it was wrong to condem homosexualisum.

@ Saphiredragon

if they honestly believe they are doing the right thing then they should have their rights

 

[J.T.]

... I don't want to drag your religious beliefs any further into this, but your errors were too glaring to ignore.

and support my believe that the FANATICS who btw killed jews, non christians, non whites and mentaly ill people must have edited the bible!

What kind of god would allow such corruption of his holy book?

also if aethiesum was as true as u think why the heck did they not rise up and slaughter the whole god thing from day one of its history?

It's kind of tough when the Christians were doing exactly that to the atheists.

if it were true there would be no god today and anyone who believes in god would probaly be murdered

Because every atheist is a murderous bigot, right.

also why arnt there aethiests that complain to satanists or wiccans? they have gods too.

Christians are generally more vocal and widespread. When I go down the street corner, I'm more likely to hear an evangelist telling me to accept Jesus than I am to hear one telling me to hail Satan.

Also, we're not debating with a Pagan or a Scientologist or a Satanist, we're debating with a Christian, a.k.a. you.

 

[Dragons_Rock1988]

listen i did not want to name anybody but you left me no choise in my own defence.

England (middle ages to the modern times)

Spain (middle ages to the modern times)

Byzantines and italy (middle ages to the modern times)

France (middle ages to the modern times)

these i strongly believe were the guilty of corrupting the holy text and killing anything not within their corrupted belief.


no more debating on my beliefe ok? please?

get back to origional topic please?

so i was stating that it was wrong to condem homosexualisum.

@ Saphiredragon

if they honestly believe they are doing the right thing then they should have their rights

 

[The Forgefather]

On the point of gay marriage:

Let them get married. It'll help with burials/inheritance issues at the very least... While not changing society at all.

On the point of gay adoption:

I do oppose this one... I just don't believe that a gay couple of parent's is an adecuate enviroment for a child. At the very least that child is going to have an unnatural inclination towards homosexuality; which in my opinion should be tolerated, but not endorsed; and at the worse prejudices against heterosexual relationships... Although this would certainly help with overpopulation...



The TRULY important argument here, if we reduce it to it's VERY basic nature is:

What is normal?

I have a very liberal interpretation on this. If you can do it, it's normal.
Nature has a very different interpretation. If it does not help the preservation of the species/ecosystem it's not normal. Therefore being gay is not natural, as it's not a standard animal instinct.
Society has a very different interpretation on this matter. If it goes against the mentality of the community you live in, it's not normal.

Can you begin to grasp the depth of the matter? It's not just homosexuality, it's a change as a whole. Being different. Being unnatural(Quoting the description above)

 

[MizuJosh]

On the point of gay marriage:

Let them get married. It'll help with burials/inheritance issues at the very least... While not changing society at all.

On the point of gay adoption:

I do oppose this one... I just don't believe that a gay couple of parent's is an adecuate enviroment for a child. At the very least that child is going to have an unnatural inclination towards homosexuality; which in my opinion should be tolerated, but not endorsed; and at the worse prejudices against heterosexual relationships... Although this would certainly help with overpopulation...

Studies show that children raised by homosexual parents lead very normal lives, and there are no hazards whatsoever. Not even inclinations, as homosexuality is biological. Oh, and homosexual relationships (marriages, for example) are often much more loving than heterosexual relationships, thus a loving environment.

The TRULY important argument here, if we reduce it to it's VERY basic nature is:

What is normal?

I have a very liberal interpretation on this. If you can do it, it's normal.
Nature has a very different interpretation. If it does not help the preservation of the species/ecosystem it's not normal. Therefore being gay is not natural, as it's not a standard animal instinct.
Society has a very different interpretation on this matter. If it goes against the mentality of the community you live in, it's not normal.

Can you begin to grasp the depth of the matter? It's not just homosexuality, it's a change as a whole. Being different. Being unnatural(Quoting the description above)

No. Homosexuality is normal. Something that limits population is absolutely normal. We are an inhibitor and a control to the population. Therefore, homosexuality is natural.

Otherwise it wouldn't happen in every other animal. I could understand "defects" if it were only us humans, but every other animal expresses homosexuality.

 

[CSolarstorm]

On the point of gay marriage:

Let them get married. It'll help with burials/inheritance issues at the very least... While not changing society at all.

On the point of gay adoption:

I do oppose this one... I just don't believe that a gay couple of parent's is an adecuate enviroment for a child. At the very least that child is going to have an unnatural inclination towards homosexuality; which in my opinion should be tolerated, but not endorsed; and at the worse prejudices against heterosexual relationships... Although this would certainly help with overpopulation...



The TRULY important argument here, if we reduce it to it's VERY basic nature is:

What is normal?

I have a very liberal interpretation on this. If you can do it, it's normal.
Nature has a very different interpretation. If it does not help the preservation of the species/ecosystem it's not normal. Therefore being gay is not natural, as it's not a standard animal instinct.
Society has a very different interpretation on this matter. If it goes against the mentality of the community you live in, it's not normal.

Can you begin to grasp the depth of the matter? It's not just homosexuality, it's a change as a whole. Being different. Being unnatural(Quoting the description above)

If gay children are born of straight parents all the time, why would you assume a gay parents can't yield straight kids? A sexuality is a sexuality and you can't raise someone away from it. Just like you can't raise a child to be straight, you can't raise a child to be gay.

And, many children completely rebel from their parents' lifestyle.

And, lol at the predjudice against heterosexual relationships. That's like assuming that if straight parents have kids they'll automatically have prejudice against homosexual relationships. Being gay isn't something that can be taught, nor is it a campaign or something to be inducted into...

How can you say that "If you can do it, it's normal," after you've just said that homosexuality isn't something that should be endorsed?

 

[The Forgefather]

I'm glad the preservation of the species aroused good arguments

Now, notice that I placed 3 interpretations for "Normal"
In my book, even murder is normal. As Freud said, the human being is inherently violent, and will by all means manifest it. In myself it's just fairly regular verbal abuse and a punch... But as nature makes us different, some are angrier than others... Some bottle it up for years... And some kill.

I love the "Inhibitor to the population argument", since it couples up with the fact that our life expectancy is growing (At least over here... I dunno over there) and that most dangers to our species are getting cut down really fast (Cancer and AIDS are terrible things, but from a merely objective point of view, they do not threaten the survival of the species). At this rate, the only true menace is ourselves and by reducing the population and giving each human being more space to grow, we're at the very least reducing this threat.

Now the end will undoubtely come, and by our hands... But you can be sure gays (Is it okay to say it this way? It's shorter and way prettier than homosexuals. Homosexuality almost sounds like Tuberchulosis to my ears. Way to scientifical) are contributing in the fight to keep us going a while longer.


On a related subject, the only gays I have a problem with are pedophiles that like boys and the guys from "Queer eye for the straight guy"... Those creep me out, and if they show up at my doorstep, they're getting a magnumload of .44 bullets and an Epiphone Les Paul Goldtop '56 to the head (Yes, l4d2 did inspire this antic). I'm not rich enough to get a gibson one... But mine sounds alright...

 

[CSolarstorm]

*rolls eyes at Forgefather*

You'd shoot someone because they 'creep you out'? I know it's a joke but...eh.

This thread has been going on for a long time and that's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to our arguments. Wait till Fused and J.T. come along your points, for example.

I'm here mostly cause I was raised by gay parents, so I was interested to hear your idea that being raised by gay parents gives the child an "unnatural inclination toward homosexuality". It may be different for others like me, but I'm 100% heterosexual. The Kinsley Scale may disagree, but eh.

 

[Sapphiredragon929]

Yeah, like how Christians pray to Xenu when something goes wrong.

Also, nice generalization.

Oh, I should have worded that better. Iirc, 90% of Americans pray, even Athiests, it was done in a study about a year or two ago. If I can pull it up, I'll link it..

It's not hard to find passages in the Koran that seem to support the idea that Islam is a belligerent religion conducive to terrorism. The Koran not only promises "a disgraceful chastisement" (4.102) and "the fire of hell" (9.6) for "unbelievers," it urges Muslims not to "take the unbelievers for friends" (3.28).

Worse, it commands Muslims to "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness" (9.123). Elsewhere it says to "kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out....Such is the recompense of the unbelievers" (2.191).

You left out how people of the book (i.e, Jews, Christians, and Zoroasters? <-wth) are supposed to get religious tolerance. In the Islamic empire days, they would pay a special tax and ''None but good will befall them". I think Islamic people still have tolerance towards people of the book because I've never been attacked by Muslim walking down the street because I'm Athiest.

listen i did not want to name anybody but you left me no choise in my own defence.

England (middle ages to the modern times)

Spain (middle ages to the modern times)

Byzantines and italy (middle ages to the modern times)

France (middle ages to the modern times)

these i strongly believe were the guilty of corrupting the holy text and killing anything not within their corrupted belief.


no more debating on my beliefe ok? please?

get back to origional topic please?

You're wrong. The Pentatuech was made by 4 different authors, the other books in the OT had a myriad of authors. NT was written by a lot of people, but it was in Greek.

Also, we, if anything, made the religion even holier.

In Greek, Mary was the "Little girl" It never stated anywhere the she was a virgin.

When we translated the bibles into German, Mary magically became a virgin. :X

And, if someone tainted the bible, how could it get as wide spread as it is now? It's not like a bunch of people said, "Hey let's edit some random verses of the bibles to slander Gays, Jews, And Lady Gaga."

Besides, we hate the Jews because they, "Killed Jesus Christ"

Of course people were persecuted for not believing, but come on. No one made an edit to the bible after 500 A.D. When the last book was written. And the guy who translated these into German, a Biblical Scholar, wouldn't be so foolish to do so...in a negative connotation. ;x

 

[J.T.]

On the point of gay adoption:

I do oppose this one... I just don't believe that a gay couple of parent's is an adecuate enviroment for a child. At the very least that child is going to have an unnatural inclination towards homosexuality; which in my opinion should be tolerated, but not endorsed;

Yep, all gay parents will raise gay kids, just like how all straight parents raise straight kids.

Studies have been done to show that gay parents are no worse than straight parents.

and at the worse prejudices against heterosexual relationships...

Why do you think this? If anything, I'd think gay parents would teach kids to be more tolerant of people who are different after what they had to go through just to be allowed to adopt the damn kid and marry their significant other.

I have a very liberal interpretation on this. If you can do it, it's normal.

That is about the most general definition I've ever heard.

Nature has a very different interpretation. If it does not help the preservation of the species/ecosystem it's not normal. Therefore being gay is not natural, as it's not a standard animal instinct.

Gay animals exist. I'm pretty sure almost every species of animal has been discovered to have a few examples of homosexual members. Hell, there is a species of lizard that engages solely in homosexual sex while reproducing. Furthermore, it could be argued that gays help preservation of the species and the ecosystem by not reproducing, therefore helping to combat overpopulation.

Society has a very different interpretation on this matter. If it goes against the mentality of the community you live in, it's not normal.

Society ultimately does not matter. Society used to oppose interracial marriage. No one will be harmed by gay marriage and gay adoption.

Can you begin to grasp the depth of the matter? It's not just homosexuality, it's a change as a whole. Being different. Being unnatural(Quoting the description above)

Who the hell cares if it's not natural? According to nature, drinking a soda isn't natural.

In my book, even murder is normal. As Freud said, the human being is inherently violent, and will by all means manifest it. In myself it's just fairly regular verbal abuse and a punch... But as nature makes us different, some are angrier than others... Some bottle it up for years... And some kill.

Defining natural by your first definition, it depends on what you mean by "if you can do it" (see what I mean by being overly general?). If you mean is it possible for you to do it, then sure, maybe. If you mean legally, then no, you can't, therefore it's unnatural.
Defining natural by your second definition, it certainly is not natural, as murder does not assist in the propagation of the species - in fact, it outright hinders it.
Defining natural by your third definition, again, it's unnatural.

But the big thing you managed to prove here, assuming murder is natural, is that natural does not necessarily mean good.

On a related subject, the only gays I have a problem with are pedophiles that like boys

Statistically, the majority of child molesters are straight people. Such actions are based on dominance and a desire for power, not because of sex itself.

Also, does that mean you're okay with pedophiles that like girls? o.o

and the guys from "Queer eye for the straight guy"...

So stereotypical gays? How the hell do they hurt you? Just by "creeping you out"?

Those creep me out, and if they show up at my doorstep, they're getting a magnumload of .44 bullets and an Epiphone Les Paul Goldtop '56 to the head (Yes, l4d2 did inspire this antic).

How tolerant and peaceful of you - wanting to take someone's life solely because "they creep me out". You creeped me out by saying that. Do I have the right to shoot you?

Grow the hell up.

 

[GhostAnime]

Nature has a very different interpretation. If it does not help the preservation of the species/ecosystem it's not normal. Therefore being gay is not natural, as it's not a standard animal instinct.

I'd like to respond just to this point. So you think something that doesn't preserve things is automatically unnatural?

Then what IS natural? Anything that helps the environment? What do you think of vestigial organs? Things such as dolphins and whales having paw bones. Those are certainly useless yet they have them. I guess they're unnatural!

But then I have to ask: what IS natural? If you ask me, I think *anything* is natural. Want to know why?

Look at the various things on Earth. Are beehives natural? Bees make them, but they don't come 'directly' out of the bee's body or anything, but they naturally, and instinctual, make beehives to preserve the herd. Us humans do the exact same thing, so skyscrapers *can* be natural.

To me, either everything is natural, or nothing is natural. Nature is everywhere. We are all part of it, and every product of us (beehives, houses, rabbit holes; EVERYTHING) is also a product of nature logically. Not everything "natural" has to do with things like being hungry, etc. Nature encompasses us all in the same bubble, because we do not even come close to doing anything supernatural. If humans grew smarter and eventually made things from stone houses, to log cabins, to skyscrapers, then that is simply human nature naturally getting better at something just like an animal may get naturally better over the course of years in doing whatever it can to survive better in the environment.

So with that said, I think I honestly got my point across. Naturality can't simply be pick and choose.

 

[7 tyranitars]

yep most things are unnatural luckely I don't live in the pathetic conservative country call the usa (no offense of the good americans) so I don't care about if the gay parents wants a kid