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For all things relative to politics.

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Ethan, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. Ethan

    Ethan Banned

    You can all thank Kyogre 35 for this topic. He sent me a PM about it, and I thought it was a good idea. We all know there are hotly contended issues in the world of politics, this thread is to discuss current events going on that pertain to it. Issues like abortion and gay marriage will not be discussed, but issues such as Joe Lieberman possibly being stripped of power, the on going senate race between Norm Coleman and Al Franken, Ted Stevens being found guilty and charged with several felonies, the current economic situation, etc. things a long that line. I realize this may be a bit too broad, but it's worth a shot. This topic is basically a current events debate thread, just with a political spin.
     
  2. Kyogre35

    Kyogre35 First avy..no touchy

    Oh yeah thanks Babylon. So um the first thing I would like to present is that Obama coming to be president-elect of this great nation. Most likely taxes for EVERYONE will go up and Foreign countries will test him (Like our VP said) so I suspect a bumpy ride for 4 years and everyone might no like it. National Health Care being 1 trillion dollars, more Gov. Checks and Handouts by the Gov. will come. And many other radical things will emerge. Partisan will still be around even though Obama said there won't be. Of Course new judges with a liberal agenda will be elected when with no doubt some will die or retire. Hopefully we can come through.

    Don't get me wrong I HOPE that these next 4 years are successful for Obama and our nation....but I think otherwise.
     
  3. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Babylon mentioned the Coleman/Franken race, apparently there is some discussion of voter fraud in the race in that as the recount keeps going large swaths of votes are coming in for Franken, at one point 100 voters were found all for Franken! Seems like something fishy is going on:

    Hot off the press, the first apparent evidence of fraud. Last night at around 7:30, a precinct in Mountain Iron, St. Louis County, mysteriously updated its vote total to add 100 new votes–all 100 for Barack Obama and Al Franken.

    Mountain Iron uses optical scanning, so the Coleman campaign asked for a copy of the tape documenting the ballots cast on election night. St. Louis County responded by providing a tape that includes the newly-added 100 votes, and is dated November 2–the Sunday before the election. St. Louis County reportedly denies being able to produce the genuine tape from election night, even though Minnesota law, as I understand it, requires that tape to be signed by the election judges and publicly displayed.
     
  4. Kate

    Kate Banned

    Can someone explain Minnesota law further?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  5. Ethan

    Ethan Banned

    I live in Minnesota, I'll be the first to tell you I will hang myself if Al Franken wins the senate. He's made jokes about child pornography and rape, he failed to prodide workers comp insurance for his own employees, and avoided taxes in several states. His political campaign ads have virtually all been negative, in one ad he even blamed Coleman for not making negative ads against him and saying he was taking some sort of false moral high ground. I don't care that he's liberal, he's just a douchebag. Coleman is an idiot too. Coleman critisized Al Franken for asking for a recount, when Minnesota state law demands a recount if the vote is that close. God both of them are idiots, but I'd choose Coleman over Franken. My God.
     
  6. Kyogre35

    Kyogre35 First avy..no touchy

    If the vote is within a certain margin a recount will be held...it's so close they've done multiple recount's and Al Franken is gianing....when he shouldn't be. It's really getting to were fraud is definatly in play. Let's hope Norm still wins.
     
  7. Carlisle

    Carlisle BAM

    Well, this election was a landslide for the Democrats. 364 electoral votes vs. 174, and the Democrats winning the popular vote by seven points. I thought McCain would get less, though - I was expecting him to lose Missouri, North Dakota, Montana, and Georgia. Nine red states went blue, while zero red states went blue. All the main swing states except for Missouri went to Obama. The Democrats are in a big majority in the Senate. 57 expected seats so far, with Georgia, Minnesota, and Alaska still being undecided. Georgia will probably go to the Republicans, no clue on Minnesota, and Alaska SHOULD go Democratic. No way should a convicted felon be allowed Senator. But lets see how those three seats ago. In the house Democrats have 254 seats, with Republicans having 173. Eight still undecided. Either way, this January we will have a Democrat controlled White House and Congress. All the other main parts of power in our government like the Supreme Court and the Cabinet and the like will be replaced with Democrats and left leaning people. I'm expecting the Clintons to fit in some of this. McCain did a great job, and he took the loss like a true American. I'm glad he'll have a say in the Senate, he really deserves it. It's a shame, he could have won if it wasn't for Palin. I'm just glad this woman is out of this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2008
  8. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Maybe a Supreme Court position, because Hillary doesn't have a chance at the Presidency for at least 8 years and by then its pretty much too late.

    Oh C'mon Carlisle you are smarter than that, McCain lost it because of a poorly organized Campaign and the Economic Disaster. One thing he had control over the other he didn't. You had 6 out of 10 people say the economy decided their vote. It was the Economic Melt Down that killed McCain, not Palin. Infact with out Palin he probably would have lost a few of those states you listed.
     
  9. Carlisle

    Carlisle BAM

    The first part I definitely agree with. The latter, not so much. Hillary can run in 2012 if Obama f*cks it up. She CAN run eight years later in 2016. McCain ran eight years later and almost made it. She knows where she messed up, and I don't think a Clinton would make the same mistake in a campaign a second time around.



    Well, yes. I wasn't saying Palin wasn't the only reason. She contributes to the poorly organized campaign. I do agree heavily on the economy part. I just don't think McCain was able to make that connection with the voters. If he had chosen a person who had economic experience it would have increased his chances of winning. I don't think Palin was the sole reason for his loss, but she was a big part of it.
     
  10. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Obama would be the Incumbant, the Democratic Party wouldnt want a long drawn out bloody battle again when Obama will already be forced to defend his record to the Republicans.

    She would also be nearly 70 and a Woman. Two things that are negatives in Politics. McCain's age was a detractor, combine that together with the fact that she is a Woman and would look her age, she wouldn't have a chance.


    Not really, their ground game was horrible, and the people handling both Palin and McCain were screwing up badly and overwhelming them with what they should and shouldn't do. Not to mention the fact that they were running out of money near the end and could not come close to matching Obama's money because of his cowardice.

    Looking back a Economic VP would have been good but it wouldn't have saved him. You also have to remember that at the time of the choice the Economy wasn't the huge big issue it became. You also have to remember at that time that Romney was the Economic VP choice, but Obama was hammering McCain on houses. Now while Romney earned his houses through hard work and pretty much the American Way, the Obama team was already gearing up attacks on Romney the days leading up to the VP Announcement. Choosing him would have made McCain play defense for the first two weeks, while Choosing Palin made the Obama Campaign struggle for a answer.
     
  11. Carlisle

    Carlisle BAM

    She'd only be 67 or 68, ending her first term at age 71 or 72. Whereas McCain would have started his at 72. Ronald Reagan was old, but we still elected him. And the fact that 18,000,000 voted for her in a primary season I think we're ready for a white woman. If an African-American can, so can she.

    If you ask me, he should have just forgotten about the Conservative base and made the the entire political arena go "wtf?" and have chosen Joe Liberman or someone else.
     
  12. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Yeah but the difference is both of them are Men, Hillary Clinton's fight has always been a uphill one, the older she gets the steeper the hill. Yes she got 18 million votes but she also had the help of heavy make up and the best stylists money can buy. The older you get the harder it is to cover your age up.

    And really after Obama's victory I would think the Democrats would swing more youthful for the next few elections to try and keep that "Young Energy" up. Going from a Black Man in the mid 40s to a White Woman coming close to 70 would be a pretty big leap, especially if the Republicans decide to play Palin and Jindal in the next 8 years to try and tackle the Youth Vote.


    That would have been really interesting but he would have lost alot of the Republican base because of Lieberman voting with the Democrats so many times.
     
  13. Requiem's Eclipse

    Requiem's Eclipse Hopelessly Hopeful

    Since we are still on the topic of the election this year and the next one, I would like too add my few sense into this. For this election I think McCain only lost because of the comparison the Obama camp made as the 'next Bush' I mean, all I hear is that "We don't need another republican, it'll be another Bush". But as far as I know, McCain is not a real right-wing conservative the media and the public make him out to be. He seemed to be more bipartisan then Obama is.

    Also, I find this election to be utterly weighed by Obama being the first major bi-racial canidate. I mean, I know many people that don't know anything about his policies and supported him simply because he was black and they wanted to hlep make history. Now I'm all for making history but, when you are blindly voting for someone without any knowledge of the canidate. It was absolutely ridiculous the week prior to the elections.

    Okay so from that, you'd think that I'm a Obama basher, I'm not. I actually supported him but, solely based on his policies and I don't give a flying f*ck if he is black. His philosophies and hopes during his presidency were the same as mine. But, i think that the caimpaigning was rather dirty in this election. But, now i'm going off topic of what I was originally going to talke about with this next passage is the problems within the McCain camp.

    For one, McCain was destined for a long uphill battle because well Bush. Since the media painted the Republicans so bad, it would be horrifically hard for a Republican to take office once more. And then Obama came out of the blue as the young charismatic dem from Chicago. And on top of that he was black. After that he decided to take Palin who many painted as a stupid MILF from Alaska who was a communist since alaska is next to Russia. Then the economic meltdown, this sealed the deal that he wouldn't fair well in this election. well....im done with this rant and I'm off.
     
  14. GrizzlyB

    GrizzlyB Confused and Dazed

    Yeah, you're right on pretty much every count.

    Also, you hit on what I think is one of the hugely ironic things about this election. Obama is supposedly now all about uniting America beyond party lines, yet he really only won this election through the partisanship which demonized the Republicans.

    And the fact that he's black was most likely an extremely huge factor in his message of change working so well, which probably won him the election. As well as the facts that he can now talk about uniting America past the parties (or "barriers") even though he hasn't shown much of anything bipartisan, and that many people voted for him simply because of him being black (whether to "make history" or otherwise).

    In short, I hated this election, and especially how Obama was able to win it.
     
  15. Requiem's Eclipse

    Requiem's Eclipse Hopelessly Hopeful

    Now let's see as many of you know, Elisabeth Hasselbeck is the only conservative person on the view and seemingly made a 'racist remark' in the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ivObqOjgw&feature=related


    Is it wrong to attack a black person when you're white, when not ever reffering to the damn skin color? Is any attack on Obama or Michelle a racist attack? And is anything on the Republicans an alright and fine attack?

    So, since I switched the topic on the supporters of the canidates, Could rap supporters for Obama possibly make people lose support in him as his presidency rolls on?
     
  16. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Ummm what the hell? How is that a racist remark? She is stating how "She" which I would guess is Cindy McCain didn't come onto the View with a list of things that couldn't be touched, like Michelle Obama did. Which makes sense as Michelle Obama's View Appearance was the first step of her trying to remake herself into a more appealing image after the "First time Proud of this country" line that had demonized her.
     
  17. Requiem's Eclipse

    Requiem's Eclipse Hopelessly Hopeful

    Yes I know that it isnt. But, look at the comments people believe that any attack on the Obamas is racist.

    For instance i feel a rehearsed feel with this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59twO1fJwtQ&feature=related
     
  18. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Oh okay then I completely apologize, I totally misread your post.
     
  19. Carlisle

    Carlisle BAM

    We'll just have to see how society is in eight years.

    If Obama's presidency goes well, he can easily have them back Clinton. A few major endorsements and a disciplined campaign is a good start.
    Hahaha, I can tell you that my generation will NOT back Palin. There's no way that woman could get the nomination. Jindal I would love to see, I'm interested to see how he'll be used. But what the Republicans need to do is regroup and change their agenda. They need to learn that this new generation of voters doesn't want to hear about gay marriage, abortion, God and the Bible, trickle down economics, or anything else the party babbles about.
     
  20. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    I hope so, she has devoted so much for Public Service that she does deserve another chance.

    True but that is a big if. Right now Obama has to get through his first term and get re-elected. Something that if I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet on.

    Well I would disagree on Gay Marriage, look at California, the bluest of blue states just signed a Prop that banned Gay Marriage in their state. As for Abortion and God, I can absolutely agree. But for Trickle Down Economics, well after 4 years of "Ground up Economics" hurting this country, I could see Republicans pouncing on Obama's plan as proof that Liberal "Work up Economics" hurt this country.

    As for Palin we will see in a few months if she has Presidential ambitions, if she moves to take a Senate seat then you know that she is angling to become the first Female President in 2012.
     

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