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For all things relative to politics.

I hope so, she has devoted so much for Public Service that she does deserve another chance.
I agree so much. Even though she may be on the Liberal side of some issues, she's worked too hard to have any other woman be president before her.


True but that is a big if. Right now Obama has to get through his first term and get re-elected. Something that if I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet on.
Unless Obama does REALLY bad, and Democrats get thrown out in 2010, which I think has a chance of happening, it'll allow a lot of other people, not just Hillary or another Democrat, to run in 2012. And I know this sounds horrible, and a lot of people are like, "Blahblahblah, Obama will get shot," it does allow other people to step in. Now, I obviously supported Obama and do not wish death on anyone, but he DOES have a higher chance than most people when it comes to threats.



Well I would disagree on Gay Marriage, look at California, the bluest of blue states just signed a Prop that banned Gay Marriage in their state. As for Abortion and God, I can absolutely agree. But for Trickle Down Economics, well after 4 years of "Ground up Economics" hurting this country, I could see Republicans pouncing on Obama's plan as proof that Liberal "Work up Economics" hurt this country.
Maybe gay marriage wasn't the right thing to say, more like gay rights. I think most people are for gay rights and civil unions, but many aren't ready for gay marriage. Though, with all the protesting in California I think it'll get turned around. I don't see why a bunch of silly Mormons from Utah are trying to do, but it's making me angry.

As for Palin we will see in a few months if she has Presidential ambitions, if she moves to take a Senate seat then you know that she is angling to become the first Female President in 2012.
Yes. Her having senator AND governor experience makes me feel more comfortable with her.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Since we are still on the topic of the election this year and the next one, I would like too add my few sense into this. For this election I think McCain only lost because of the comparison the Obama camp made as the 'next Bush' I mean, all I hear is that "We don't need another republican, it'll be another Bush". But as far as I know, McCain is not a real right-wing conservative the media and the public make him out to be. He seemed to be more bipartisan then Obama is.

And this is something that the pundits have gotten people to believe sometime around 2000-2002. That McCain is this sort of moderate Republican.

Don't get be wrong. He can and does work in a bi-partisan manner. His Democratic colleagues aren't just saying that he's a great person to work with just to save face, I bet. But just because he works in a bi-partisan manner doesn't make him a moderate Republican, like someone like Jim Jeffords (well, was), or Rick Santorum or Arlen Specter.

He's a very reliable vote for many of the main Republican issues out there. He's got a good, independent voice, but he's still a reliable Republican.

If there's one issue he's been more moderate on, it's probably immigration, and maybe education.

Also, I find this election to be utterly weighed by Obama being the first major bi-racial canidate. I mean, I know many people that don't know anything about his policies and supported him simply because he was black and they wanted to hlep make history. Now I'm all for making history but, when you are blindly voting for someone without any knowledge of the canidate. It was absolutely ridiculous the week prior to the elections.

People vote for shallow reasons all the time. This is nothing new (nor does it make the aforementioned reasoning okay).

It's no secret that I'm really ****** that Stevens is still in office. It's ironic that the party that wanted to clean up Washington has one of the biggest pork barrel Senators and is now a convicted felon because of this addiction to greed he has. And even without changing the ideology (we could go on for days if Republicans should be more center , more right, more whatever), if the Congressional Republican caucus could get together and just find out everything ethically wrong, so that they don't find out about it on the news. And they either come forth with it and solve it in the open, or have them resign. Voluntarily becoming the party of ethics and doing a sort of self cleansing ritual would at least increase respect for the Republicans, if not actually help them gain seats in 2 years.

(Psst, Congressional Republicans. Your next target should be Dan Burton).

Of course, if Stevens wins (and it's looking that way, though just barely), it makes you think. What would a Republican have to do to get kicked out of an office in Alaska?

Something interesting I found, from Indiana's voting.

Obama won by about 23,000 votes. And Governor Mitch Daniels won by 500,000.

Daniels and Obama have two things in common:

They're both basically the "change" candidate.
Flooded the state with campaign money.

It looks like Daniels' supporters who split their ticket put Obama over the top. And while Governor Daniels has been quite public in saying that this is the only elected office he'll ever hold, it might bode well for either a role in a major campaign or something like the RNC chairmanship in a few years. During the inevitable soul searching the Republicans will turn to, I hope they sit down with Governor Mitch, an he can show them how to run a real campaign.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Unless Obama does REALLY bad, and Democrats get thrown out in 2010, which I think has a chance of happening, it'll allow a lot of other people, not just Hillary or another Democrat, to run in 2012. And I know this sounds horrible, and a lot of people are like, "Blahblahblah, Obama will get shot," it does allow other people to step in. Now, I obviously supported Obama and do not wish death on anyone, but he DOES have a higher chance than most people when it comes to threats.

Even if Obama/Biden do absolutely horribly, I really doubt the Democrats would run a Candidate against the Incumbent in the Primaries. They would have been dealt a major defeat in 2010 and wouldn't want to up their chances by losing the Presidency by having a bloody long drawn out Primary.

Besides lets say Obama really tanks and doesn't want to run again. I really don't think Hillary would want to run. It would be the opposite of 2008, where the Democrat brand would be damaged by a major mid term loss, and a un popular President. Anyone that would go up would be tied to that brand and the President.

The good thing is Hillary was smart enough to rarely be seen with Obama, so that the clips of her except for at the convention are very few and in between.

Still it would be near suicide in her chances to run with a 10 pound weight around her neck named Barack Obama.

Which is why I really considered this year the one last best hope for Hillary. She devoted everything for this year, and it was beaten to death by this newbie.

If Barack Obama is a disaster then 2012 will be a much bigger disaster for the Democrats, not just for the damage Barack would bring. But because their GOTV effort would be in ruins, the Youth Vote would be broken due to the empty promises and hope that they were suckered in by Obama, and the Black vote would be absolutely depressed as the first Black Candidate would be a major failure. The Democrats could turn to Hillary as their savior, but if she is smart ( and I truly think she is ) she will say no thank you.

Their next best choice would be a Candidate that would be distanced from Obama. * Glance at Joe Lieberman *

Yes. Her having senator AND governor experience makes me feel more comfortable with her.

Me too, although I am a bit more in favor of Jindal or Romney. Palin does have the Folksy, almost Mom like feeling to her, but I would rather have her get 4 years in the Vice Presidency to get a true feeling of the inner workings of Washington.

Maybe a Woman Vs Woman Presidential Run in 2016.
 
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S.Suikun

Thank you, SPPf! :)
Time for S.Suikun's edition of "Hey Look, I Can Be a Political Analyst Too, Just Like Those Professional Pundits Who Get Paid for Getting Everything Wrong!"

The GOP certainly wants to get to 2012 as soon as possible, but I think even projecting 2010 is murky by this point, and Obama won't even assume office for over 2 months. While a GOP comeback isn't impossible by 2010, especially when you consider that Bill Clinton had a similar majority (actually slightly larger) in 1992 then lost it all just 2 years later, the circumstances are a bit different this time around. So much lies in the balance, and it's a delicate balance indeed. The "aura" of celebrity-like majesty surrounding Obama is going to enshroud him for a while, which is frustrating for some of us (and has been for the past year), and his decisions are going to have great repercussions, whether they're positive or negative. Positive results like a full economic rebound would certainly extend that aura's lastibility, but more negative consequences (foreign affairs being the greatest concern) could cause a Democratic domino effect.

As I said in the previous thread, I certainly don't want the guy to fail (deliberately wanting a president to fail is pretty twisted), especially since his presidency will essentially shape the future of minorities in power in this country, and so much else is currently at risk. He currently has wiped himself a clean slate as far as I'm concerned, although Senate records and past affiliations could be indicitave of that slate dusting up rapidly.

As for the Republicans, they really should have looked at themselves and re-establishing their movement back in 2006, but I guess it took all this for everyone to finally get their heads out of the sand. McCain's approach and history of crossing the aisle and hoping to serve as the "middle man" did no favors for him, as he failed to win over any more independents than a Republican normally would, even with Lieberman support. Not saying that bipartisanship is a bad thing, but I really never see Pelosi and her gang engaging in such a practice. The word is used in each of her sentences, even though every bill that fails to pass is coined as a GOP failure by her. Bailout bill drafts are a good example.

And 2012? Look, I'm more than sick of having to deal with election garbage from the past 22 months to even think about that yet. Before any running-mate was chosen this time around and common names like Romney, Huckabee, and *ick* Lieberman were floating around, there were occasionally names dropped of some "rising stars" as Jindal and, yes, Palin. Some theorized that these rising stars were best saved for the future, and the choice of Palin proved that even though she is charismatic and witty, both her lack of prior national exposure, relative newness, and the fact that she was literally chosen and informed of it last-minute resulted in some leadership skepticism. No doubt her political career is far from over, and any damage to her image that resulted is easily repairable (that clothing thing especially was nonsense). It just wasn't her time yet.
 

Ethan

Banned
So just how is the GOP going to repair itself? What do they need to do? The party has obviously been bruised, with democrats almost having a super majority in the house senate. What's being done? I think Bobby Jindal would be a great face for the Republican party, but I sadly think he wouldn't make it. The dems would slam him for being a radical evangelical, as they already have. Palin has been smeared so badly, I honestly am skeptical if she can recover. Tim Pawlenty seems like a safe bet, he was the runner up behind Palin. I honestly can't think of many people.
 

HoennMaster

Well-Known Member
I live in Minnesota, I'll be the first to tell you I will hang myself if Al Franken wins the senate. He's made jokes about child pornography and rape, he failed to prodide workers comp insurance for his own employees, and avoided taxes in several states. His political campaign ads have virtually all been negative, in one ad he even blamed Coleman for not making negative ads against him and saying he was taking some sort of false moral high ground. I don't care that he's liberal, he's just a douchebag. Coleman is an idiot too. Coleman critisized Al Franken for asking for a recount, when Minnesota state law demands a recount if the vote is that close. God both of them are idiots, but I'd choose Coleman over Franken. My God.

This basically sums up my view as well. I was leaning towards voting Independent, but I figured...Dean Barkley won't win. And I sure as hell don't want Franken to be our Senator. So I voted for Coleman. I just sucks that we will have to wait a few weeks before we find out who is the Senator. Normally I lean towards Democrat, but Franken is "unfit for office". It sucks that we have to have a recount because now all this new crap is coming in. How do votes basically get misplaced? Geesh.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
heh, you're ****** off about Minnesota senate? i'm ****** off that our democratic governor won only because of bush and obama. wasteful spending isnt my style locally.

also, the democratic senator kay hagan won in a landslide over dole, but dole used an attack ad on her religion..

that made me vote hagan as soon as i saw that. =P
 

BigLutz

Banned
Al Qaeda in Iraq has posted a message to Obama on one of their websites. They expect him to keep his promise and withdraw the US troops from Iraq as fast as possible. I guess they hate losing right now and expect Obama to hold up to his promise to withdraw as fast as possible so that they can get back to terrorizing the Iraqi People.

"Two Iraqi insurgent groups called on President-elect Barack Obama to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq and abandon the war on terror, an Internet monitoring service reported Friday.

Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, self-styled head of the al-Qaida front group the Islamic State of Iraq, said in a speech posted on an extremist Web site that it would be better “for you and us” to “withdraw your forces,” according to the SITE Intelligence Group that monitors militant Web sites. …

In a separate statement, the Mujahedeen Army, a Sunni insurgent group, urged Obama to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq or face “days that will be more difficult than the nightmare experienced by his predecessor.”"
 

Bobby Frank JR

Mewy Christmas!
Where does NZ politics come into this. We got a new prime minister last night.
 

Requiem's Eclipse

Hopelessly Hopeful
Al Qaeda in Iraq has posted a message to Obama on one of their websites. They expect him to keep his promise and withdraw the US troops from Iraq as fast as possible. I guess they hate losing right now and expect Obama to hold up to his promise to withdraw as fast as possible so that they can get back to terrorizing the Iraqi People.

"Two Iraqi insurgent groups called on President-elect Barack Obama to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq and abandon the war on terror, an Internet monitoring service reported Friday.

I think that a speedy withdrawal from Iraq would be disastorous for one it can leave an opening from Al Qaeda to take over the region once again. But, then again that isn't the reason why we're there is it?

I think rather then going to Iraq we should bring our troops to Afghanistan where Osama is. Iraq turned out to have no WMD's right now and we already took out Sadam Hussein why are we there?

Either way we should focus our efforts on Afghanistan and not Iraq. It's ridiculous how Bush focused us around a joke of a regime change. If we are doing this War on Terror, shoudn't we also going to war with friggin North Korea? It just doesn't make any sense.
 

Bobby Frank JR

Mewy Christmas!
I have been thinking for a while that if they withdraw from Iraq, wouldn't the Iraqi's just attack the USA?
 

Kyogre35

First avy..no touchy
I have been thinking for a while that if they withdraw from Iraq, wouldn't the Iraqi's just attack the USA?

Wow....wow.wow.wow.. >.<

Duh no. They don't have the inferstructure. And why would they do that to the country that helped their's stand on there feet? Mabye Al Queda might try but not the Iraqi's...
 

ironknight42

Well-Known Member
"I have been thinking for a while that if they withdraw from Iraq, wouldn't the Iraqi's just attack the USA?"
Bobby Frank say what...the Iraqi's first off most likely would not be capable of attacking the US to begin with but they would have to be crazy to do that...no seriously
"I think that a speedy withdrawal from Iraq would be disastorous for one it can leave an opening from Al Qaeda to take over the region once again. But, then again that isn't the reason why we're there is it?"
That's why our favorite presidential elect wants to pull out slowly...lets hope that it works if it doesn't so much for the Democrats little foreign policy
 

kev40293

392 pokemon owned
we have to pull out of iraq and i dont thingk the iraqis would attack us. maybe al queda would byt then again they're suposedly in pakistan. put we can't pull out to quickly and risk a civil war in iraq because that could send the entire middle east into a gigantic power struggle and wed have to get reinvolved
 

GrizzlyB

Confused and Dazed
Iraq wouldn't attack us for pulling out. Terrorist organizations might, however. Plus, if we pull out before they're ready, the Iraqis will probably end up hating us, as well. Which would make going back to rout any terrorist organizations that may attempt to take hold there if we pull out prematurely that much more difficult.
 

crobatman

Well-Known Member
Can't we just say new topic:
What do you guys think President Bush is going to do after he leaves office?
I am going to miss the Talk Shows making fun of his speeches.

About the Iraq topic, slow and steady wins the race.... So I guess, if we start leaving Iraq, then we have to pull out cautiously. I wonder how long it will take until the American military is out of there.
 
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BigLutz

Banned
Can't we just say new topic:
What do you guys think President Bush is going to do after he leaves office?
I am going to miss the Talk Shows making fun of his speeches.

He will retire to Dallas Texas and make a nice living writing books and giving speeches and staying out of the spot light.

Also outside of Chris Mathews and his stupid Vow to "Make this Presidency work" when talking about Obama. I have no doubt that we will be seeing Talk Shows making fun of Obama's speeches soon, especially if his first Press Conference was any indication of what is to come.

If not then there is always Joe Biden.
 
we have to pull out of iraq and i dont thingk the iraqis would attack us. maybe al queda would byt then again they're suposedly in pakistan. put we can't pull out to quickly and risk a civil war in iraq because that could send the entire middle east into a gigantic power struggle and wed have to get reinvolved

Isn't iraq always engaged in a civil war?
 

BigLutz

Banned
Isn't iraq always engaged in a civil war?

Right now Iraq is incredibly safe, Al Qaeda in Iraq is in ruins, Iran is taking a wait and see approach, and US deaths in Iraq are at the lowest point possibly ever. But then again you wouldn't see that on the news.

George Bush basically handed Obama a victory in Iraq. All he has to do is sit on his butt and let the Generals pull out in how they see fit. Lets see if he screws that simple job up and messes up the victory that Bush, McCain, and Petraeus gave him.
 
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crobatman

Well-Known Member
Iraq's "civil war" is what happens because of terrorism.

BigLutz, you are right. We would not see too much of that on the media.

About John Mcain, Do you think he could have had a better chance if he picked a different running mate?
I am kind of glad he picked Palin. I overheard people saying they would have voted him for if he picked Lieberman as vp.

I am a little ticked off at some people voting for Obama just because he is black or a democrat. My great uncle voted for him because he always has voted for democrats since the 50's.
 
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