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For old fans only - What can have makes you want to watch anime again?
- Thread starter Ashton Ketchum
- Start date
- Status
Sprinter1988
Well-Known Member
Make Ash less dumb.
I don't mind that he loses sometimes. Just make him less dumb.
I don't mind that he loses sometimes. Just make him less dumb.
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
The writers really need to stop trying to do the same thing over and over expecting different results for the movie series. Using the old "not evil, just mistreated or misunderstood" trope expecting better and better results every time is just nuts.
Aegiscalibur
Add Witty Title Here
Bring back BW and ramp it up to eleven. So bad it's good, anyone?
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I'd be more happy with a light-hearted parody.
He needs to promote newer Pokemon, though. That's just how marketing works.
But if marketing is what they're going for, they could do a lot better by letting Ash bring in some of his Mega Evolution capable reserves. Heck, I'm surprised Ash hasn't gotten a Mega yet strictly because of the merchandise that him getting a Mega, especially if it were Mega Charizard Y (to go against Alain's Mega Charizard X). That's why I was so surprised by Ash-Greninja. Unless it markets something in Pokémon Sun/Moon, it doesn't seem to be all that wise as a marketing device when Ash already has access to an already popular Pokémon that can Mega Evolve. Heck, he has a few popular Pokémon that either are already able to Mega Evolve, assuming he gets a Mega Ring and corresponding Mega Stone, or could Mega Evolve if they evolve to their final form.
pokemon fan 132
Well-Known Member
This is basically question for people who no longer watch pokemon anime at all. And based on what I saw on various sites over years spent in pokemon fandom and various fans i talked to. Not counting older fans who are 100% loyal watching regularly anime ever since they got into pokemon of course.
There exist basically two groups of older fans who either completely quit or only watch pokemon series sporadically catching up on new info sometime.
Among them one part of older fandom became highly cynical and skeptic in not having faith over pokemon being able to change in more eventful series to follow with Ash and already existing previous characters. Even if writers changed formula and added more depth to storyline, believing how that cannot be done with current characters with only answer lying in doing complete reboot. Revamp of everything starting with new protagonist in Ash place with no strings attached to past.
While other group is less radical and would go back to anime with currently existing main star(Ash). But only if writers drastically changed series formula with Ash as protagonist growing up and going somewhere as character being given more dimension to himself. Followed by older ex main characters being returned for new roles and follow up of their own storylines with large number of older fans wishing to see return of original trio Ash, Misty and Brock together again on screen for one more adventure.
Im sure we all at least once encountered demand for original trio reunion receiving a lot of love and support from older fanbase(maybe not on this site, but there are other places though).
As for me and where I do stand with pokemon?
I still obviously watch it despite delivering more disappointments than pleasures for me at this point.
I always felt how for long running franchise having stable characters with who people can relate. Associate show with, have someone to feel sorry for, root for it. Is absolutely mandatory.
It forms emotional connection between viewer and protagonist watching your characters you grew to like going on different, unique adventures. How he/she will utilite knowledge and skills learned in past when facing new opponents, antagonists, dangers and tasks on road of accomplishing their dreams.
Dive deeper to your favorite character thoughts, emotions, fears, insecurities and self doubts enriching on its personality gaining new dimension to it. To better understand its behavior, what persons and events molded him/her as individual.
And feel like you have on going journey, consistent storyline filled with continuity, unexpected new twists and direction in which characters go forward.,
Resulting in deeper more meaningful evolution of relationship between characters and accomplishing new discovered tests , challenges and overcoming tempations on road of coming toward achievement of your dreams. It basically means more suspense entanglements, action, emotional evolution and sense of story building.
Stable cast and heavily induced continuity and connections to past treat anime like one big epic adventure which has its beginning, middle and end. Creating brand and better recognition of some show among viewers around the world because of having iconic long lived characters which represent everything show stands for.
That's why One Piece, Naruto, Evangelion,Dragon Ball etc are/were successful. While anime which constantly replace everything and everyone after few years start fading in oblivion.
Due to new kids facing with various new shows to choose from with pokemon just blending in the mass. Because today market is filled with number of anime with similar theme fighting for kids attention.
While not having reliable and loyal older viewers who care about older characters, history and sense of strong following. Thanks to writers of pokemon series awful policy of abandoning all those creations full of potential to go forward. Just to add one after another new character causing pokemon anime to lose its identity and appeal that way.
Since Ash alone cannot help create long standing brand and maintain older fans to remain invested in this show.
Because many of older fans loved pokemon because of other characters, their quirks, pokemon and prospect to see them change, grow and achieve their own interesting careers. Characters which are arrogantly dropped away unfortunately with their unfinished goals, untapped potential, halfway developed pokemon teams and started stories falling in oblivion.
So in nutshell. If there was stronger continuity, older main characters like Misty for example having some place and importance in pokemon show again, we had more consistent storytelling breaking away from repetition and overuse of old ideas rounded with Ash actually progressing as character. Than my old spark and love i used to have for pokemon anime might in that case comeback as well. Being more invested in pokemon anime than i am truth to be told at this point and time.
There exist basically two groups of older fans who either completely quit or only watch pokemon series sporadically catching up on new info sometime.
Among them one part of older fandom became highly cynical and skeptic in not having faith over pokemon being able to change in more eventful series to follow with Ash and already existing previous characters. Even if writers changed formula and added more depth to storyline, believing how that cannot be done with current characters with only answer lying in doing complete reboot. Revamp of everything starting with new protagonist in Ash place with no strings attached to past.
While other group is less radical and would go back to anime with currently existing main star(Ash). But only if writers drastically changed series formula with Ash as protagonist growing up and going somewhere as character being given more dimension to himself. Followed by older ex main characters being returned for new roles and follow up of their own storylines with large number of older fans wishing to see return of original trio Ash, Misty and Brock together again on screen for one more adventure.
Im sure we all at least once encountered demand for original trio reunion receiving a lot of love and support from older fanbase(maybe not on this site, but there are other places though).
As for me and where I do stand with pokemon?
I still obviously watch it despite delivering more disappointments than pleasures for me at this point.
I always felt how for long running franchise having stable characters with who people can relate. Associate show with, have someone to feel sorry for, root for it. Is absolutely mandatory.
It forms emotional connection between viewer and protagonist watching your characters you grew to like going on different, unique adventures. How he/she will utilite knowledge and skills learned in past when facing new opponents, antagonists, dangers and tasks on road of accomplishing their dreams.
Dive deeper to your favorite character thoughts, emotions, fears, insecurities and self doubts enriching on its personality gaining new dimension to it. To better understand its behavior, what persons and events molded him/her as individual.
And feel like you have on going journey, consistent storyline filled with continuity, unexpected new twists and direction in which characters go forward.,
Resulting in deeper more meaningful evolution of relationship between characters and accomplishing new discovered tests , challenges and overcoming tempations on road of coming toward achievement of your dreams. It basically means more suspense entanglements, action, emotional evolution and sense of story building.
Stable cast and heavily induced continuity and connections to past treat anime like one big epic adventure which has its beginning, middle and end. Creating brand and better recognition of some show among viewers around the world because of having iconic long lived characters which represent everything show stands for.
That's why One Piece, Naruto, Evangelion,Dragon Ball etc are/were successful. While anime which constantly replace everything and everyone after few years start fading in oblivion.
Due to new kids facing with various new shows to choose from with pokemon just blending in the mass. Because today market is filled with number of anime with similar theme fighting for kids attention.
While not having reliable and loyal older viewers who care about older characters, history and sense of strong following. Thanks to writers of pokemon series awful policy of abandoning all those creations full of potential to go forward. Just to add one after another new character causing pokemon anime to lose its identity and appeal that way.
Since Ash alone cannot help create long standing brand and maintain older fans to remain invested in this show.
Because many of older fans loved pokemon because of other characters, their quirks, pokemon and prospect to see them change, grow and achieve their own interesting careers. Characters which are arrogantly dropped away unfortunately with their unfinished goals, untapped potential, halfway developed pokemon teams and started stories falling in oblivion.
So in nutshell. If there was stronger continuity, older main characters like Misty for example having some place and importance in pokemon show again, we had more consistent storytelling breaking away from repetition and overuse of old ideas rounded with Ash actually progressing as character. Than my old spark and love i used to have for pokemon anime might in that case comeback as well. Being more invested in pokemon anime than i am truth to be told at this point and time.
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Personally I was fortunate enough to watch half the episodes, scattered here and there, of the original and Johto series.
I liked Pokemon, but I was more hyped about Yugioh at the time, considering the characters actually progressed and became OP.
I missed the orange islands and Battle Frontier entirely, and only watched random parts of the AG and DP whenever I was bored and fortunate enough to catch Pokemon episodes on TV.
I don't even remember what episodes I watched back then, or my feelings towards them.
The only things I do remember are being put off by contests, which I thought was too girly at the time, and being extremely, yes, extremely upset at the departure of Misty.
Even at the age of 14, I shipped them really hard before I knew what shipping was. I actually turned off a lot of airing episodes of AG because I was so used to Misty, and her departure kind of ruined my interest. I regained some interested in DP with Dawn, and caught parts of the Sinnoh league.
BW started when I went to uni, and that's when I first had the chance to benefit from the *ahem* "limitless possibilities" of the internet.
By that point, I was completely turned off by Yugioh, which after watching a few episodes of GX and the stupid motorcycle stuff, I resolved to never watch it again (and I can proudly say that since grade 11 I haven't watched more than 30 seconds of it at a time). I still enjoyed the card game though.
Pokemon, on the other hand, had stayed steady with the same formula since the first time I watched it. I remember having so many unanswered questions about pokemon, and I saw many of my classmates playing pokemon. That got me even more curious, envious, and nostalgic. I remember being given pokemon cards such as Scyther and Zapdos, and they instantly became my favourites.
Soon I learned that I could play pokemon on my laptop, ahem ok I'll stop there...
Long story short, I got addicted to the game, and suddenly my nostalgia grew over 9000 and decided to catch up on the anime.
Since I could never follow it episode by episode in the past, I wasn't particularly bothered by the lack of continuity or progress on Ash's part.
(OK fine I admit, I was shocked that it lost to Snivy, but other than that I was OK with this recurring theme of resetting Ash's status.)
For the most part, I enjoyed BW but I didn't like Iris. She wasn't cute, and the only cute pokemon she had was Emolga. I was unimpressed with the battling, and upset at the lack of battle strategies, and most of all, upset at the lack of important wins throughout the whole freaking series. But I really liked the plot, Team Rocket's new demeanor, the frequent captures, Cynthia, Alder, and Meloetta. I thought the Unova Legendary Trio was ugly and crap compared to the Kanto/Johto Flying/4-legged Trios. I also thought Trip and Paul were the same person until I realized they weren't. Then I just thought Trip was terrible writing and a lazy copy of Paul, who I thought was just a copy of Gary.
Yeah I was pissed at the terrible writing at the Unova League, they should just have made Ash lose to Trip in the first round, I would have been happier with that result.
I was majorly disappointed with the lack of Charizard actually showing its full power. Pokemon activist N had to prevent Charizard from killing Dragonite, which was sad because I wanted Dragonite to die so badly, if it can't even beat a Krookodile it doesn't deserve to be called Dragonite, a pokemon I struggled so hard against in Pokemon Red. Plus I was butthurt that Iris got a free Dragonite despite being a no-skill loser. If she battled it, it would have swept her whole team without taking any damage.
But hey, I still enjoyed watching most of the episodes...
Until the Decolore Islands. Yeah about that...
I kept watching in desperate hope that should interesting would happen. Nope, nothing happened. So I decided that I would not watch XY.
Then XY came out. I didn't watch the first episode. But by that time I had started checking out these discussion forums.
All I saw were comments like holy miltank, its so good, awesome animation, 10/10...
So then I resolved to keep watching the anime, and I loved it for the most part since the beginning of XY.
Serena is cute, at first I was butthurt that Misty wasn't coming back and thought negatively about Amourshipping (cuz pokeshipping rulez all ^_^). Over time I softed up about it and now I am an amourshipper. I'm still sad about the lack of Mega Charizard Y, and the 6th/7th gyms being only 2v2, and Ramos and Valerie being weak.
But yeah I'm lovin this series and won't quit unless they really mess things up badly. That said, I believe viewership will increase significantly (back to early BW levels) if they provide strong continuity into Sun and Moon and a satisfying result at the Kalos League (top 2 or better). Otherwise, expect Sun and Moon to have even lower viewership than XY and the end of BW.
I liked Pokemon, but I was more hyped about Yugioh at the time, considering the characters actually progressed and became OP.
I missed the orange islands and Battle Frontier entirely, and only watched random parts of the AG and DP whenever I was bored and fortunate enough to catch Pokemon episodes on TV.
I don't even remember what episodes I watched back then, or my feelings towards them.
The only things I do remember are being put off by contests, which I thought was too girly at the time, and being extremely, yes, extremely upset at the departure of Misty.
Even at the age of 14, I shipped them really hard before I knew what shipping was. I actually turned off a lot of airing episodes of AG because I was so used to Misty, and her departure kind of ruined my interest. I regained some interested in DP with Dawn, and caught parts of the Sinnoh league.
BW started when I went to uni, and that's when I first had the chance to benefit from the *ahem* "limitless possibilities" of the internet.
By that point, I was completely turned off by Yugioh, which after watching a few episodes of GX and the stupid motorcycle stuff, I resolved to never watch it again (and I can proudly say that since grade 11 I haven't watched more than 30 seconds of it at a time). I still enjoyed the card game though.
Pokemon, on the other hand, had stayed steady with the same formula since the first time I watched it. I remember having so many unanswered questions about pokemon, and I saw many of my classmates playing pokemon. That got me even more curious, envious, and nostalgic. I remember being given pokemon cards such as Scyther and Zapdos, and they instantly became my favourites.
Soon I learned that I could play pokemon on my laptop, ahem ok I'll stop there...
Long story short, I got addicted to the game, and suddenly my nostalgia grew over 9000 and decided to catch up on the anime.
Since I could never follow it episode by episode in the past, I wasn't particularly bothered by the lack of continuity or progress on Ash's part.
(OK fine I admit, I was shocked that it lost to Snivy, but other than that I was OK with this recurring theme of resetting Ash's status.)
For the most part, I enjoyed BW but I didn't like Iris. She wasn't cute, and the only cute pokemon she had was Emolga. I was unimpressed with the battling, and upset at the lack of battle strategies, and most of all, upset at the lack of important wins throughout the whole freaking series. But I really liked the plot, Team Rocket's new demeanor, the frequent captures, Cynthia, Alder, and Meloetta. I thought the Unova Legendary Trio was ugly and crap compared to the Kanto/Johto Flying/4-legged Trios. I also thought Trip and Paul were the same person until I realized they weren't. Then I just thought Trip was terrible writing and a lazy copy of Paul, who I thought was just a copy of Gary.
Yeah I was pissed at the terrible writing at the Unova League, they should just have made Ash lose to Trip in the first round, I would have been happier with that result.
I was majorly disappointed with the lack of Charizard actually showing its full power. Pokemon activist N had to prevent Charizard from killing Dragonite, which was sad because I wanted Dragonite to die so badly, if it can't even beat a Krookodile it doesn't deserve to be called Dragonite, a pokemon I struggled so hard against in Pokemon Red. Plus I was butthurt that Iris got a free Dragonite despite being a no-skill loser. If she battled it, it would have swept her whole team without taking any damage.
But hey, I still enjoyed watching most of the episodes...
Until the Decolore Islands. Yeah about that...
I kept watching in desperate hope that should interesting would happen. Nope, nothing happened. So I decided that I would not watch XY.
Then XY came out. I didn't watch the first episode. But by that time I had started checking out these discussion forums.
All I saw were comments like holy miltank, its so good, awesome animation, 10/10...
So then I resolved to keep watching the anime, and I loved it for the most part since the beginning of XY.
Serena is cute, at first I was butthurt that Misty wasn't coming back and thought negatively about Amourshipping (cuz pokeshipping rulez all ^_^). Over time I softed up about it and now I am an amourshipper. I'm still sad about the lack of Mega Charizard Y, and the 6th/7th gyms being only 2v2, and Ramos and Valerie being weak.
But yeah I'm lovin this series and won't quit unless they really mess things up badly. That said, I believe viewership will increase significantly (back to early BW levels) if they provide strong continuity into Sun and Moon and a satisfying result at the Kalos League (top 2 or better). Otherwise, expect Sun and Moon to have even lower viewership than XY and the end of BW.
Guywhoiam
Dr. Researcher Man
Oh yeah, I know that. But it won't stop me from wishing, at least.
Ash The Boy
Member
I don't care if Ash win or lose the league, I enjoy the journey, I mean, gym battles, cool fillers, battles against villain teams, the league for me is just the end of era and the new serie is the beginning of a new era.
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Emperor Empoleon
Honor of Kalos
For more quality and effort to be put into things like character and story progression. And that doesn't even require for them to break their precious formula. At least not entirely.
I'm more or less in this camp.
I'm more or less in this camp.
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This show has been doing that for 18 years now and it's still airing. So clearly there's no problem there.
pokemon fan 132
Well-Known Member
Just because writers continued to keep replacing characters doesn't mean how something wasn't poorly received or was for the best for quality of pokemon series. Cast replacing can be unpopular and disliked, yet at same time writers can continuing with their formula. Because as long as number of viewers being willing to watch pokemon series despite disliking anime formula exceeds amount of money invested into show, writers will continue to follow such trend.
However there is no denying how pokemon popularity and amount of viewers interested in pokemon series is taking decline with ratings and anime popularity as whole reflecting that .
Thanks to repetitive strategy of eroding continuity, pretending like past never happened and consecutively replacing characters people grew to like turning them away from pokemon show losing respect for it. Being one of reasons behind people disappointment.
When in fact pokemon could have much higher quality in storytelling and character development. Treat its main characters both from past and present with actual dignity having their place in timeline and whole adventure being treated as essential condiment to overall plot. Rather than being handled as marketing gimmicks who serve role just to fill up space before next generation comes with potential for further development, started storylines, goals, relationships established with Ash and others in end not mattering. Followed by higher popularity and reputation among its viewers.
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BlueDragonfangirl
Well-Known Member
I've been apart of the fandom and long time Ash fan since the Kanto series and I've been fine with it still. Few complaints every now and than but other than that. Am still going to continue watching thanks.
Isn't that more or less what Kalos is doing? I admit it's been leaning into bumbling filler mode more since XYZ, but in the previous two seasons they were a fairly decent mix of humorous and fearsome. They were downright BW level sinister in Goodra's finale, and even in some of their more comical roles they pose more of a challenge.
I do admit Kanto had better spotlight for them personality wise however. The humour was funnier and the stories were more diverse. I feel if Kalos TR could branch out a bit more and gain this quality it would surpass all of them.
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