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For or against represent fing LGBT in Pokémon

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Leonhart

Leonhart

Imagineer
I wouldn't necessarily mind it, but I think Game Freak has focused too much on pandering to fan demands in recent years, which in my opinion has made the newer games feel somewhat hackneyed. If they're going to add more LGBT content, it should feel natural instead of being forced as a way of appeasing some fans.
 
PrinceOfFacade

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
As a bisexual, no.

Representation is lovely, but it isn't always necessary, and representation for the sake of representation is never a good thing. Let's not demean ourselves by just throwing in an LGBT character simply because there isn't one. That just creates tokens and stereotypes.

Especially for a game like pokemon, where one's sexual orientation hardly matters, an LGBT character needs to be more than just "the gay character." Their sexuality should only be a small part of who they are, les they become that token.
 
Manchee

Manchee

extra toasty
jnshucker12 said:
For or against represent fing LGBT in Pokémon

Are you for or against representation of Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, or Transexuals in Pokémon?
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Transgender*

Sceptile Leaf Blade said:
He's never once expressed any kind of attraction, either sexually or romantically, towards any other male in the show as far as I can remember, much less all around.
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Just because he hasn't, doesn't mean he isn't. I don't remember him ever expressing any kind of attraction sexually or romantically to a woman, either (but out of 800-something episodes, I won't be surprised if he did). But also, I remember him dressing up and acting like a woman more times than he's ever seemed attracted to any of them.

Inclusion would be nice. I'm not bothered by it being absent, tho, since the game doesn't feel overwhelmingly hetero. But I don't play very many video games to see any specific LGBT representation, so it's not a concern of mine. I'd rather see other diversity elements be included such as being physically disabled, and older person on a journey, or other races being represented as main characters.
 
M

Morton Belgram

Well-Known Member
Manchee said:
Transgender*

Inclusion would be nice. I'm not bothered by it being absent, tho, since the game doesn't feel overwhelmingly hetero. But I don't play very many video games to see any specific LGBT representation, so it's not a concern of mine. I'd rather see other diversity elements be included such as being physically disabled, and older person on a journey, or other races being represented as main characters.
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I would really love if they made a game in which you're a black Pokemon trainer who has to prove your racist surroundings wrong about you, by becoming the first black Pokemon Master in history.
 
lemoncatpower

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
As for this topic, I don't really care too much. As a gay man, I guess it's always nice to have those obviously gay characters, but I reaaaally don't want more romance in pokemon. Not to mention, the amount of backlash from certain communities would just make it a whole thing that I wouldn't want to hear about and honestly pokemon shouldn't be involved with. A COTD couple of two guys or two girls in love could be cool in the future (after people stop being hateful about stuff that doesn't have anything to do with them). I liked what they did with Kukui, that's the best romance Pokemon has ever done by far, but I don't want them to start marrying all the trainers off to each other lmao. They were close to ruining Ash by having Serena be his ACTUAL girlfriend, but they did right in the end.
Go watch old disney if you want to watch some cartoon love and romance, imo.

Morton Belgram said:
I would really love if they made a game in which you're a black Pokemon trainer who has to prove your racist surroundings wrong about you, by becoming the first black Pokemon Master in history.
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Pokemon won't even air the Passimian episode, I have a hard time seeing them tackling this :p
 
U.N. Owen

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I'm going to give the same shtik I gave for Marvel Comics. Do not create characters for the sake of having LGBTQ. Write a story and have their sexuality be a character trait just like race, gender, or intellect. It's the difference between America Chavez in Young Avengers and America Chavez in her terrible solo series.

Diversity kills nothing. Bad writing ruins everything.
 
Sceptile Leaf Blade

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
lemoncatpower said:
Pokemon won't even air the Passimian episode, I have a hard time seeing them tackling this :p
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There is a difference between inclusion and referencing actual problems. Pokémon is including to people of dark skin colours by having characters like Kiawe and Olivia in the cast. Their skin colours are never directly referenced and it's not any sort of issue whatsoever in the pokémon world, but it's there and is inclusion. We're talking more on that line. The Passimian episode is controversial for different reasons, it's because giving a character black face-paint to make him look like a monkey is historically insensitive.

Anyway, back on topic. I do think representation is important, and it has to be done well. There is still a lot of misinformation out there regarding stereotypes, there's still a lot of homophobia and transphobia out there, also in 'modern' western nations. Having different rolemodels, including LGBT+ rolemodels, can show people that it's okay to be LGBT, that it doesn't have to make you different from anyone else. That just because someone is male and attracted to other males doesn't suddenly mean that said person will enjoy wearing dresses or like girly things or whatever. Obviously not every franchise has to have LGBT representation, but I think Pokémon is such an enormous franchise with so many people watching the anime and so many people playing the games that it has a moral obligation to do so. With power comes responsibility, or something like that.
 
lemoncatpower

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Sceptile Leaf Blade said:
There is a difference between inclusion and referencing actual problems. Pokémon is including to people of dark skin colours by having characters like Kiawe and Olivia in the cast. Their skin colours are never directly referenced and it's not any sort of issue whatsoever in the pokémon world, but it's there and is inclusion. We're talking more on that line. The Passimian episode is controversial for different reasons, it's because giving a character black face-paint to make him look like a monkey is historically insensitive.

Anyway, back on topic. I do think representation is important, and it has to be done well. There is still a lot of misinformation out there regarding stereotypes, there's still a lot of homophobia and transphobia out there, also in 'modern' western nations. Having different rolemodels, including LGBT+ rolemodels, can show people that it's okay to be LGBT, that it doesn't have to make you different from anyone else. That just because someone is male and attracted to other males doesn't suddenly mean that said person will enjoy wearing dresses or like girly things or whatever. Obviously not every franchise has to have LGBT representation, but I think Pokémon is such an enormous franchise with so many people watching the anime and so many people playing the games that it has a moral obligation to do so. With power comes responsibility, or something like that.
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I know I was just basically saying "doubt it will ever happen", they are still making episodes that are getting banned for racially sensitive reasons, so I can't see them tackling that issue if they can't understand it.
Also pokemon has always been pretty inclusive of everyone imo, considering they're mostly Asian and coming from Japan.

I think Pokemon would do well not to have any romantic plots with LGBTQ+ per se, but to normalize cross dressing and other LGBTQ+ activities with characters that don't do it for jokes and funny moments (crossdressing is only one example of many), but as part of their usual outfits, or normalize crushes on the same sex as part of a character, but not something that will actually happen, like a COTD having a huge crush on the champion of the region so he asks Ash for some training tips with his pokemon to impress the champion, or something along those lines. That's coming from someone who doesn't want romance in more than one or two Pokemon episodes though, if someone else wants romance then they can vouch for romantic LGBTQ+ representation. I just don't see the need to throw in a random LGBTQ+ couple though or sign two characters off to each other for the sake of inclusion of LGBTQ+, unless they're COTD.
 
Sceptile Leaf Blade

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Morton Belgram said:
That's true. But if I saw a man dressed like a woman, would you then blame me for assuming him to be gay?
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Blaming might not be the right word for it, but I would say that that is an assumption based on nothing, and an assumption that is also completely unneeded because someone else's sexual preferences are none of your business. And the moment you start sharing those assumptions publicly I would indeed blame you for that.
 
M

Morton Belgram

Well-Known Member
Sceptile Leaf Blade said:
Blaming might not be the right word for it, but I would say that that is an assumption based on nothing.
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I wouldn't say it's nothing... I have never met a heterosexual crossdresser. Every crossdresser I have met has been homosexual. Now, I haven't met many, probably only 5-6 or something... But my personal experiences should count for something more than "nothing".

The media doesn't help, either. We barely ever see any heterosexual crossdressers there (I haven't seen any, but they probably exist, you tell me).
Cochito Wurst, for example...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchita_Wurst

So yeah, I admit that my first assumption when I see a crossdresser is that he must be homosexual. I intend no hatred with assumption, though. Most gays I have met were nice enough, they didn't bother me.
 
Drake Pokétrainer

Drake Pokétrainer

Hell God
I'm kinda indifferent to it. On one hand it's just a video game and doesn't really need LBGT people in it. It's not really written on your face if you're not a heterosexual. For all we know this random hiker or lass or pokenerd you just fought is LBGT.

On the other hand I also wouldn't mind if it was in it, or small references now and then hinting at it.

So yeah, I don't really care, wouldn't mind either way.
 
LusoTrainer

LusoTrainer

Retro Trainer
Against. I find the very concept of asking for the inclusion of characters solely based on their sexual orientation (irrespective of what it might be) or any other immutable trait, under the pretext of 'representation', to be hideous and shallow. It's pure identity politics. Even more so when we are taking about kids games with a theme where sexual preferences and relationships are irrelevant. The fact that we don't know the sexual preferences of virtually every character in the series is proof of how irrelevant it is.
 
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