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Friend or Foe Alike! (081)

ZilverLox

Banned
It was another of those Team Rocket humor episodes. As a distraction, they would prevent Ash from entering the Pokemon League so he can automatically lose. They would perform those usual pranks to fool one or another. That's not important as I was so stunned that Ash lost the Pokemon League. After all of his hard work he showed throughout the season, his Charizard was the cause for not being obedient.
 

Wednesdayz

Meowth fanatic
After all of his hard work he showed throughout the season, his Charizard was the cause for not being obedient.

Y'know it's still funny to me how Charizard got away with screwing Ash's chances of winning the Kanto League, yet he's still loved by like 99% of fans.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I keep thinking about what could've happened in this episode if Lizardon had actually listened to Satoshi. Since Satoshi had to lose to Hiroshi one way or another, it seems that Hiroshi's Pikachu would've had to somehow pull off a victory using some sort of plot device even if Satoshi and Lizardon had worked together effectively, which is a sad thought.
 

gentwoer

Well-Known Member
I wonder why everyone wants to blame Team Rocket and Charizard for Ash's loss when

A. It's Ash's own damn fault for using his warn out Pikachu and his disobedient Charizard when he had Pidgeotto, Bulbasaur (I know bulbasaur is weak to fire Pokemon but its not like the show doesn't ignore type advantages), and Kingler/Muk,

B. It's bad writing that Ash's Pikachu was "warn out" by its encounter with Team Rocket when it wasn't a big deal

C. Charizard's disobedient is Ash's fault for being a crappy trainer.

D. Squirtle "losing" because it was put to sleep was stupid and opens up a huge can of worms of how easy it would be for someone to win the league just by spamming sleep techniques.
 

Daizy

I call you honey
I still can't get over how much this episode sucked. Team Rocket totally made Ash lose because they made him late and his team was exhausted, and why did Charizard's nap disqualify Ash?
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I find it highly unfair how Lizardon sleeping was used to disqualify Satoshi when we've seen sleeping Pokemon in battles many times without consequences. The referee didn't need to call such a bad verdict.
 

KyogreThunder

Call of Fate
One of the Ash's worst league losses ever. Squirtle being declared unable to battle because it was put to sleep was dumb and made no sense, and Ash losing because of Charizard's disobedience was even worse. I wish Sparky had zapped Charizard, and the latter had taken the rodent out in one hit. The only good part was Pidgeotto towing TRio's balloon all the way to the League, too bad it ended up exhausting him.
3/10
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
I never gave Satoshi's Pigeon much thought before, but now I do think his stamina was quite impressive since he singlehandedly got Satoshi to the stadium.
 
This episode just made me so mad since I didn't mind Ash losing to Ritchie, I just didn't like the way that it happened. Ash deserved to fight Ritchie with a clean slate using Pokemon that were all healthy, but Team Rocket took that away from him by causing his Pidgeotto to be extremely tired and therefore making it unable to battle. And then Charizard finished the backstabbing by refusing to battle.
 
This was such an amazing episode because even though Ash lost you gotta admit that he deserved it for not properly training his Charizard. I do blame Jessie and James for making him late to the match but in the end it was Ash's own lack of initiative that cost him the battle. Him being sad afterwards made me feel bad for him though since he had never lost such a major battle before and Ritchie seemed sad for Ash too since they had become good friends. 8/10
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Boy did Charizard screw Ash over. Even if Ash should have known better that was still pretty dickish of Charizard. If he was obedient Ash probably would have made it into the Quarter Finals at least.

This is easily my least favorite of Ash's final league battles
 

pacman000

On a quest to be the best...
Ash didn't spend much time training Charizard, probably because Charizard was too big & powerful & out-of-control for a ten-year-old to handle. Charizard would help Ash in emergencies, but a Richie's Pikachu wasn't a threat.

If Ash had just let Charizard out of his Pokéball & spent time with him, Charizard might've trusted Ash enough to listen to him in regular battles. But Charizard grew too fast, & became too dangerous, for Ash to spend much time with him. Then again, Ash tried to use Charizard in a few battles before the league, but Brock & Misty told him Charizard was too dangerous.

It's a conundrum; to train Charizard, Ash would've needed Charizard to trust him, but to trust Ash, Charizard needed training.

Worked out as an interesting plot point tho.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
pacman000 said:
It's a conundrum; to train Charizard, Ash would've needed Charizard to trust him, but to trust Ash, Charizard needed training.

My issue with the whole scenario is that Satoshi didn't really try to work with Lizardon other than him interacting with Lizardon a few times and getting burned. But those scenes were comedy relief moments, and nothing that happened during those interactions seemed like serious bonding attempts on Satoshi's part.

Satoshi seemed rather lazy when it came to Lizardon in early OS, and it backfired on him badly here since he got desperate and practically begged Lizardon to help, only for Lizardon's stubbornness to cost Satoshi the match.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Honestly it's a wonder Ash still took Charizard with him to Orange Islands instead of leaving him with Oak after the League.

For other trainers that may of been the nail in the coffin
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Red and Blue said:
Honestly it's a wonder Ash still took Charizard with him to Orange Islands instead of leaving him with Oak after the League.

For other trainers that may of been the nail in the coffin

I admire that he didn't just abandon Lizardon especially after the loss that he suffered in this episode, which is what I would've done had I been in his shoes. But the fact that he didn't try to bond with Lizardon until his life was in critical danger halfway through the Orange Archipelago will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
 

pacman000

On a quest to be the best...
Anyone else notice the music que when Ritchie let out Zippo was the same one used when Blane’s Magmar appeared?

Also, Ash showed a bit of maturity & good sportsmanship when he accepted his loss & shook Ritchie’s hand at the end.
 
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