From GPICSS to SICPIG?

[Shadao]

My point is greninja isn't his Pokémon anymore. He released it.

I personally feel only pokemon he actually has can count

He released Poipole in SM, and yet the Pokémon came back almost unexpectedly and it rejoined Ash's team just in time for the final 6 vs 6 battle.

The world of the anime, any Pokémon that Ash has ever owned can come back to his team no matter how contrived the circumstances may be.

 

[CMButch]

Technically Ash’s defeated Kukui’s and it only fainted after the fact that Hala declared Ash’s the winner. So it wasn’t a tie because that would mean that both Ash’s and Kukui were knocked out at the same time like Pikachu and Zoroark.

But it fainted after, so technically it's a tie. Kukui's > Ash's because Kukui received more damage( DL and Melmetal) while Ash's only fought Vensuaur.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

There's no way DL is stronger than Incineroar. Just because DL gave Ash a league win, doesn't mean he's strongest one. Look at feats people: Incineroar tied with Kukui's Incineroar. DL only beat Gladion's ML. DL is 2nd-3rd strongest( hell even Melmetal would probably beat him because Melmetal lost to Silvally, but did ok against him, beat Empoleon and lost to Incineroar). And you have DL who lost to .... BRAVIARY lol. Sure it can be DL > Melmetal, but IMO Melmetal would beat DL. Incineroar is objectively stronger than both.

I know people are fed up with fire Pokemon on his A team, but that's how it is. Charizard and Infernape are proven strongest and Incienroar now did( 6th or 7th). But it's not our fault, writers made him strongest. Krookodile is probably 8th. ( Yeah, Krookodile would beat Melmetal because of Dragonite feat).

Kukui's Incineroar fought other Pokemon, it wasn't purely Torracat's victory. Both Lycanroc were fresh for their fight since Pikachu and Zoroark were a double KO.

 

[CMButch]

Kukui's Incineroar fought other Pokemon, it wasn't purely Torracat's victory. Both Lycanroc were fresh for their fight since Pikachu and Zoroark were a double KO.

So? Are you implying DL > Incineroar or...?

 

[ShadowForce720]

But it fainted after, so technically it's a tie. Kukui's > Ash's because Kukui received more damage( DL and Melmetal) while Ash's only fought Vensuaur.

The problem is when you say tie it implies that they both fainted at the same time like what happened with Pikachu and Zoroark or in a previous season Pikachu and Latios. In this case it doesn't matter if Ash's Incineroar fainted from evolving because the point is that it had already been declared the winner before fainting, so because Torracat did not faint right away it means that, yes Torracat did win. What caused Torracat to faint was more so exhaustion combine with evolving into Incineroar which looking at it seemed like the evolution took up all of Torracat's remaining energy because if you look at it before evolving it seemed to be able to stay conscious but the moment it evolved it seemed to cause it to pass out.

Also let's just say for instance we were in a situation where Ash's Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar were both their last pokemon and were the final match the battle that decides whose going to win, and let's say the battle has the same outcome as we do now, Ash would still be declared the winner of the full battle and it wouldn't be treated as a tie because of the fact that Torracat didn't faint at the same time as Incineroar and thus was the last one standing. So the match wouldn't be declared a draw.


Basically it's not a tie even technically because the battle between Torracat and Incineroar was already over and Torracat was already declared the winner of the battle meaning that for that part it's irrelevant if fainted then because it didn't faint at the same time as Incineroar.

 

[Hanto]

1. Peakachu
2. Ash-Greninja
3. Charizard
4. Sceptile
5. Infernape
6. Krookodile

Nothing makes Incineroar & Lycanroc top tier battlers. If they are the best in one of the worst sagas battle-wise it means nothing comparing them to even birds like talonflame or swellow.
Defeat of Incineroar was a collective effort and Midnight Werewolf is not on the Alain's Burastozard level.

 

[CMButch]

Basically it's not a tie even technically because the battle between Torracat and Incineroar was already over and Torracat was already declared the winner of the battle meaning that for that part it's irrelevant if fainted then because it didn't faint at the same time as Incineroar.

I was actually talking about strength and not match-wise. Both Incineroars are tied in strength since both of them fainted( no matter if it's after, before or during match). Sure match-wise, Ash's declared a victor. But power-wise, they are tied on that point, while in fresh battle( aka 1 on 1):when they are both fresh, Kukui's would still win because he battled 2 Pokemon more and Ash's only one: Venusaur.

Also, I think Torracat battled with Incineroar strength against Kukui's. Venusaur triggered evolution and Torracat held it in. So basically, if Torracat didn't evolve, Kukui's Incineroar would've defeated Torracat. So, basically this was Incineroar vs Incineroar( just Torracat body).

 

[Lightning Bolt]

I was actually talking about strength and not match-wise. Both Incineroars are tied in strength since both of them fainted( no matter if it's after, before or during match). Sure match-wise, Ash's declared a victor. But power-wise, they are tied on that point, while in fresh battle( aka 1 on 1):when they are both fresh, Kukui's would still win because he battled 2 Pokemon more and Ash's only one: Venusaur.

Tbf, Melmetal didn't even damaged Incineroar. It tanked DL, and tried to retaliate with DIB, but Incineroar managed to counter and defeat it with a single close-range Blast Burn. So, technically Incineroar only got hurt by a single Stone Shard from Lycanroc.

Also, I think Torracat battled with Incineroar strength against Kukui's. Venusaur triggered evolution and Torracat held it in. So basically, if Torracat didn't evolve, Kukui's Incineroar would've defeated Torracat. So, basically this was Incineroar vs Incineroar( just Torracat body).

That doesn't even makes sense. Torracat was holding the evolution because he wanted to defeat Incineroar in his mid form. He wanted to prove that he was stronger than Roar even though he wasn't fully evolved. There would be no point in holding the evolution if Torracat had the same strenght as Incineroar. That would completely ruin Torracat's whole narrative and story.

 

[Rock Captain 99]

Ok.. so for a minute, let's assume that Torracat vs Incineroar were the last pokemon standing from their teams. And the final outcome is the same that happened between the two. Would you call it a tie?

When referee signalled that Incineroar has fainted, he would have declared Ash the winner of the battle because Torracat was still standing at that time. It fainted thereafter from exhaustion doesn't impact the result of Torracat vs Incineroar!

 

[CMButch]

Tbf, Melmetal didn't even damaged Incineroar. It tanked DL, and tried to retaliate with DIB, but Incineroar managed to counter and defeat it with a single close-range Blast Burn. So, technically Incineroar only got hurt by a single Stone Shard from Lycanroc.

Incineroar still battled with them and lost energy due fighting with them, no matter if he got hit or not, He got hit by Melmetal's spinning( despite he caught arms that was still some kind of damage).

That doesn't even makes sense. Torracat was holding the evolution because he wanted to defeat Incineroar in his mid form. He wanted to prove that he was stronger than Roar even though he wasn't fully evolved. There would be no point in holding the evolution if Torracat had the same strenght as Incineroar. That would completely ruin Torracat's whole narrative and story.

Torracat (as Torracat power) is not stronger than Incineroar.Even K-Incineroar after DL and Melmetal fight. Lol. Torracat only won because it had Incineroar level power inside it during fighting and because Incineroar battled Melmetal and DL. That's why he let evolution loose after defeat of K-I because he as Torracat( in body) wants to defeat Incienroar. You can clearly see different fire in both Pokemon( Torracat seemed like fire-evolution.Also it felt like Incineroar fire level). There's nothing to ruin.It's not like Incineroar is different Pokemon than Torracat, it's same, will old you be different than adult yourself? No. Still same person.So it makes no sense that Torracat is ruined. He beat him as Torracat( which is his entire point) despite holding in Incineroar power level, so once Torracat evolved, he stayed the same power-wise. So, (fresh wise):Kukui's Ince > Ash's Incine= Torracat( with Incine power) > Ash's Torracat( Torracat power).
This is same as Ash's Bulbasaur per say, he didn't evolve/refused but he had/has Ivysaur power inside just in Bulbasaur body, since factually: evolved Pokemon > non evolved.

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

But it fainted after, so technically it's a tie. Kukui's > Ash's because Kukui received more damage( DL and Melmetal) while Ash's only fought Vensuaur.

Melmetal never got a hit on Incineroar and Lycanroc was only able to scratch it. Ash’s fainted after it evolved while Kukui’s was already down. Again a tie is still a double knockout in my opinion because that means both Pokémon went down, Ash’s was still standing for a longer period then Kukui’s so Torracat won the match and evolved to signify that he took the champion belt away from Incineroar which is why he evolved.

 

[mehmeh1]

I was actually talking about strength and not match-wise. Both Incineroars are tied in strength since both of them fainted( no matter if it's after, before or during match). Sure match-wise, Ash's declared a victor. But power-wise, they are tied on that point, while in fresh battle( aka 1 on 1):when they are both fresh, Kukui's would still win because he battled 2 Pokemon more and Ash's only one: Venusaur.

Also, I think Torracat battled with Incineroar strength against Kukui's. Venusaur triggered evolution and Torracat held it in. So basically, if Torracat didn't evolve, Kukui's Incineroar would've defeated Torracat. So, basically this was Incineroar vs Incineroar( just Torracat body).

To be fair, Melmetal did as much damage to him as Sceptile did to Latios

 

[CMButch]

Melmetal never got a hit on Incineroar and Lycanroc was only able to scratch it. Ash’s fainted after it evolved while Kukui’s was already down. Again a tie is still a double knockout in my opinion because that means both Pokémon went down, Ash’s was still standing for a longer period then Kukui’s so Torracat won the match and evolved to signify that he took the champion belt away from Incineroar which is why he evolved.

This is how it goes( including Brandon in, since Brandon is not E4 level and best to compare with strongest Alolan Pokemon from trainers: EDIT: I put Malva as weakest E4 in Kalos, she's equal to other weakest E4 from other regions):

Malva's Mega Houndoom >>Brandon's Rock and Ice DP > Brandon's Regirock BF = Brandon's Regice DP= Malva's Base Houndoom >Kukui's Incineroar = Brandon's BF Registeel > Ash's Torracat( Incine power)= Ash's Incineroar > Brandon's Regice BF= Melmetal >DL >Torracat ( no Incine Power).

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Honestly is this thread really needed here?? It sounds more like an anime polls thread tbh. It doesn't even really have anything to do with spoilers not to mention the title is very confusing.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Honestly is this thread really needed here?? It sounds more like an anime polls thread tbh. It doesn't even really have anything to do with spoilers not to mention the title is very confusing.

Ash's Incineroar is yet to evolve in the English Dub... I believe it's still considered as spoiler on the poll section...

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Ash's Incineroar is yet to evolve in the English Dub... I believe it's still considered as spoiler on the poll section...

It still sounds like a thread that belongs there. Also not trying to be a debby downer but it's also similar to that other thread discussing his strongest mons that was just locked.

 

[Decidueye23]

This list makes me wonder. Infernape is the only one on the list wuthout any power up. Not saying others are steong only because of the powers ups, but pikachu incineroar/lycanrock all of them have special z-moves. Sceptile and charizard both have megas and greninja can go ash greninja. Ash doesnt have access to megas. But to think if he did have access to megas he would be wrecked.

 

[CMButch]

This list makes me wonder. Infernape is the only one on the list wuthout any power up. Not saying others are steong only because of the powers ups, but pikachu incineroar/lycanrock all of them have special z-moves. Sceptile and charizard both have megas and greninja can go ash greninja. Ash doesnt have access to megas. But to think if he did have access to megas he would be wrecked.

Infernape has powerful Blaze ability. Also, all Ash's Pokemon can do Z moves.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Pikachu has proven once again that he is Ash's strongest Pokemon. None of Ash's other Pokemon would've been able to stand against Guardian of Alola, even with Z-Moves.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Pikachu has proven once again that he is Ash's strongest Pokemon. None of Ash's other Pokemon would've been able to stand against Guardian of Alola, even with Z-Moves.

Hmm, using Ash's existing Z-crystals, how about Greninja using Breakneck Blitz, Charizard using Inferno Overdrive or Sceptile using Bloom Doom?

Too bad, Ash doesn't have Waterium Z for Hydro Vortex...