Froslass - OU, BL, or UU?

[Rtrt160]

I have a Froslass as a lead for my OU team, although some people say that Froslass isn't OU. I, of course, disagree with this. Froslass is the only Ghost type to learn Spikes, and is fast as well. While it isn't the fastest, it's still fast. Its base speed is 110, and is maxed out at 350. This is Froslass' set:

;478;Froslass@Focus Sash
Spikes
Destiny Bond
Taunt
Ice Beam

Focus Sash guarantees Froslass two turns. Spikes is self-explanatory. As is Destiny Bond. Taunt keeps away Spikes and Stealth Rock. Ice Beam OHKOs Aerodactyl. I have used this Froslass quite a bit in Standard battles, and it does great.

P.S. I don't care at all about Shoddy Battle. Don't even mention it. This thread is about the DS games.

 

[windsong]

I assume this is a lead, in which case you get demolished by Azelf and Aero, as both Taunt you and set up Rocks. Anyways, you say it's not about Shoddy, but about Wifi, but OU is just based on shoddybattle usage stats. Frosslass isn't used enough to move up to OU, but is overpowered in UU, and thus ends up in BL, the UU banlist.

 

[Mye]

It honestly depends on how it is used. In OU, it is an interesting lead that can counter suicide-aerodactyl/roserade while setting up spikes/unleashing STAB shadow ball/ice beam. In UU, it more or less dies to the sheer bulk of dusknoir. I'm putting it at BL, for that reason...

 

[Rtrt160]

I don't care what the tiers are based on, people still use the tiers on Wi-fi. As I said above, Aerodactyl gets OHKOed by Ice Beam. And Azelf, it isn't as common as some people think. I don't see it on every team. Not even half. Not even 1/3.

 

[jellsprout]

She loses to Azelf, Aerodactl, Swampert, Metagross, Jirachi, Infernape and I think Machamp too, so she can't work as a lead. She is weak to Stealth Rock and gets hit by Spikes and Toxic Spikes and she loses to Starmie and Tentacruel and can't do anything to Forretress, so she doesn't work as a Spin Blocker. Both her stabs get resisted by Steel and she has no way to beat them, so she can't work as sweeper. How exactly would she work in OU?

In UU her spikes make Moltres, Swellow and others broken. So she is BL.

 

[Mye]

She loses to Azelf, Aerodactl, Swampert, Metagross, Jirachi, Infernape and I think Machamp too, so she can't work as a lead. She is weak to Stealth Rock and gets hit by Spikes and Toxic Spikes and she loses to Starmie and Tentacruel and can't do anything to Forretress, so she doesn't work as a Spin Blocker. Both her stabs get resisted by Steel and she has no way to beat them, so she can't work as sweeper. How exactly would she work in OU?

In UU her spikes make Moltres, Swellow and others broken. So she is BL.

Bah, if only that were true. In OU, she kills any azelf/aerodactyl which can't break the sash, and kills any machamp not packing fire/bullet punch. She can't be hit by rapid spin due to the normal immunity ghosts have, and gets killed by dusknoir, typhlosion, and registeel in UU...good enough for you?

 

[4kjayhawks]

. In UU, it more or less dies to the sheer bulk of dusknoir. I'm putting it at BL, for that reason...

Dusknoir is OU...

I think it's BL because Skarm/ Forry sets up spikes a little better, but it's overpowered for UU. Not mention it's terrible typing, even though Ghost helps out when laying down hazards. It's main role is for offensive teams who want Spikes right away.

 

[Rtrt160]

Not mention it's terrible typing, even though Ghost helps out when laying down hazards.

Horrible typing? Like Aerodactyl is any better. Froslass has great typing for a lead, if typing even matters for a lead.

 

[Mye]

Horrible typing? Like Aerodactyl is any better. Froslass has great typing for a lead, if typing even matters for a lead.

mmhmm...froslass has perfect typing if you look at the other leads. Roserade dies to azelf, machamp dies to azelf, machamp dies to aerodactyl, froslass kills azelf, roserade, aerodactyl, and non bullet/fire punch machamp...

 

[windsong]

I don't care what the tiers are based on, people still use the tiers on Wi-fi. As I said above, Aerodactyl gets OHKOed by Ice Beam. And Azelf, it isn't as common as some people think. I don't see it on every team. Not even half. Not even 1/3.

Lead Aerodactyl always carries Sash. Always. They'll Taunt and the set up Rocks against that Frosslass lead that you posted. Azelf sets will either 2HKO with Fire Blast, or Taunt and then set up Rocks. Machamp uses Payback and then finishes off the remaining hitpoint with Bullet Punch. Metagross beats you with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch. ScarfRachi 2HKOs you, with a 60% chance of you not being able to do anything.

And no, Frosslass doesn't have good typing for a lead, what with the number of Dark and Steel type moves carried on common bulky anti leads (Metagross and Machamp, for example).

edit: and Mye, all offensive lead Machamp, the only lead Champ worth running carry Payback and Bullet Punch. All of them. And Machamp also beats Aerodactyl, since you don't seem to know that. So I highly recommend that you stop trolling, it's getting really annoying, tbh.

 

[palingensia]

Froslass is broken in UU, therefore it is BL.

What else needs to be said?

 

[d0nut]

As I said in that other thread Froslass simply loses to pretty much every common lead out there and plus if you want a Spiker lead to begin with you should use Forretress or Skarmory to begin with as despite them being pretty bad as leads, they can at least set up on a few things such as Jirachi (you likely get Tricked but at least you get 2-3 layers guarenteed.) Bulk seems to be a determining factor for any successful Spikes user probably because of the number of layers it takes in order for it to become worthwhile, and fragile things like Froslass simply don't find many opportunities to set up multiple layers in OU. Things were much different in UU however and it was extremely broken to many people, therefore removed to BL after suspect testing.

 

[GR81]

As an OU lead it's outclassed by Aerodactyl, Azelf, Metagros and Machamp. I don't really understand how it's BL since it really only has 1 reliable set (I tried a Modest sweeper set with Destiny Bond and 3 attack moves and it failed miserably).

 

[:wub:disc]

it's BL because in UU its reliable set is really reliable.

it only needs one set really. you don't sweep with something with 80 SAtk even in UU that sucks. but it has 110 speed and taunt and spikes so you sure as hell set up with it.

iirc smogon deemed it BL on account of the support characteristic as it was stupidly easy to set up 2-3 layers of spikes and make sweepers beat everything realy easily.

having said that it just kind of sucks in OU. sets up layers far less reliably and doesn't do much that isn't done better.

also, to the guy who keeps talking about fire / bullet punch machamp, there's this pretty nifty move called payback you may have heard of. you're not going to find a machamp without FP / BP / payback.

 

[purplepikachu]

frosslass is definetely not very usable in OU. Sure, you can set up spikes on starmie, but once you die (starmie is faster so you cant d-bond), your spikes are going to disappear. scizor can bullet punch preventing you from destiny bonding, and the omnipresent tyranitar can DD/crunch you to oblivion with sand stream breaking your sash.

 

[shadowsfalling19]

She loses to Azelf, Aerodactl, Swampert, Metagross, Jirachi, Infernape and I think Machamp too, so she can't work as a lead. She is weak to Stealth Rock and gets hit by Spikes and Toxic Spikes and she loses to Starmie and tentacruel and can't do anything to Forretress, so she doesn't work as a Spin Blocker. Both her stabs get resisted by Steel and she has no way to beat them, so she can't work as sweeper. How exactly would she work in OU?

In UU her spikes make Moltres, Swellow and others broken. So she is BL.

Yeah,I really don't know what to say here,Froslass is great with prediction,you just have to know how to use it.

How in the world does Froslass lose against Forry? You taunt while it attempts to set up,you already won,they didn't get their hazard up while you have your sash and you could get a layer of spikes or two up.

Same with tentacruel,you taunt,while it tries to set up it's hazard, then it can't spin you since you're a ghost.
Then you can easily set up 2 of your hazards OR use Destiny Bond and take them down with you.

As long as you set up your hazard and they don't get the chance you 'win' the lead battle.

Froslass vs. Nape
Now,it doesn't lose to Nape without a fight, Nape can't Fake Out and break your sash, while all it can do is Fire Blast/Flamethrower you. You're also immune to ALL of it's priority attacks since again, you are a Ghost Type. You're also immune to one of it's strongest STABs Close Combat. Set up Spikes, die, bring in a counter like Starmie, its that simple, I really don't know why all of you are fussing so much.

Now, some of the leads like Rachi, Metagross, and Machamp, yes they may win, however, that doesn't mean you lost the battle right off the bat.

So, if Froslass was sent to UU, things like Moltres,Sceptile,Aggron,etc would easily break.

If we sent it to OU, it would be easily counter by thus mentioned leads.

If we kept it at BL, it could fit in nicely as a good Suicide Niche lead.

My vote, is to remain at Borderline.

 

[xLilith]

It honestly depends on how it is used. In OU, it is an interesting lead that can counter suicide-aerodactyl/roserade while setting up spikes/unleashing STAB shadow ball/ice beam. In UU, it more or less dies to the sheer bulk of dusknoir. I'm putting it at BL, for that reason...

implying Dusknoir is UU.

anyway, i'd much prefer it to be UU, since in OU it pretty much gets raped by every lead possible. however, it's pretty nice when those slower leads die to destiny bond.

c:

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

Most of you are very misinformed.
While Froslass does make an OK lead with spikes, she loses to Aerodactyl, Azelf, Machamp, Jirachi, Tyranitar, Infernape, Metagross, and Heatran 100% of the time. At most, she'll be able to get up one layer of spikes, and perhaps take Heatran or Tyranitar down with Destiny Bond. She can't do a thing against Metagross, Azelf, Aerodactyl, or Machamp. If you want to use a lead who is guaranteed to fail vs most teams you'll find on the ladder, you go ahead and use Froslass. Nothing is going to change about that for the remainder of the D/P metagame.

Froslass was the best lead in UU, however, and she was too good at what she did. Her getting Spikes up made it so much easier for faster, stronger Pokemon to rip through teams. She was too good, so she was suspected under the Support Characteristic, and subsequently banned

Finally, for all the complete scrubs in here, STATUS IN OU IS DETERMINED BY USAGE, NOT HOW GOOD YOU THINK THEY ARE. I know someone already said it, but I feel it needs to be reiterated. Froslass is too good for UU, but is almost completely unviable in OU, therefore she is not used, therefore she is BL. Deal with it.

Now I remember why I stopped coming here. Too many idiots, like Rtrt160. Too many ignorant people, like Mye. Nowhere near enough educated posters like :wub:disc

 

[Rtrt160]

Too many idiots, like Rtrt160.

Yeah... right...
Anyway, I made this thread because my Froslass powns in OU. I use it as a lead all the time in competitive battling. My opponent always gets owned by it. So I don't see how Froslass could be BL.

 

[d0nut]

my Froslass powns in OU. I use it as a lead all the time in competitive battling. My opponent always gets owned by it. So I don't see how Froslass could be BL.

Play better opponents.