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Gaining Groudon! (373)

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Advanced Battle' started by Serebii, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. The dub, at least, said only that Lance was "a member of the Elite Four" (which makes even less sense...especially in terms of him being in Hoenn as far as jurisdictional power goes...). Unless the Japanese anime implied rather strongly that he was also Hoenn Champion (which would again make no sense, given that they at least acknowledged Steven's existence), it's not at all safe to assume that he "could very well be" the Champion of Hoenn.
    Who was going to stop them? Hmm…If not Lance or Steven, then…uh…I dunno…maybe Wallace? Which would’ve been a million times better (I, for one, have seen enough of Gyarados and Dragonite in the anime, as well as Mr. Bubblegum Hair himself) or at the very least made a heck of a lot more sense. But then again, like you mentioned previously, Lance fits the Almighty Superhero character archetype perfectly, and everyone knows how the anime loves its stock characters.

    Well he *definitely* always wins against the "bad guys", which is our case in point. And aside from League Tournaments, he defeats every trainer he goes against (sometimes he needs maybe 1 rematch, but that's it).

    Ah, what you said reminds me of one more gripe I have about this ep: the way the anime made TM and TA behave exactly like TR (and therefore conveniently making it seem appropriate for Lance to be interfering in a plotline he really shouldn’t be involved in, since his Johto plotline concerned mistreatment of Pokémon using technology—something TR is famous for). In the games, it does appear that TR obtains and controls Pokémon illegally using lots of high-tech machinery, but not TM and TA. The latter two do try to control Kyogre and Groudon, but not by capturing with technology, only by using Orbs, which could technically be considered a much more natural means of control. But obviously, the anime folks like their stereotypes and clichés and assume their audience does too (which apparently it does…at least some parts of it…), and so any and all bad guys must capture Pokémon illegally using high-tech gadgets. Never once do they consider the possibility of a criminal organization with a different modus operandi, even though in the games the most technology either TM or TA used was the submarine, and that was merely to get to the undersea cavern, not to actually capture the Pokémon. Yes, yes, they did have the Orbs controlling the Legendaries by the end of the episode, but they just *had* to stick in that whole “lookit how we caught ‘em with our fancy machinery!” bit prior to that.

    And how the heck could there still be a possibility that Wallace will ever show up in the anime…unless perhaps he does what Lance did here, i.e. appear completely out of place? Like in the Battle Frontier, Kanto, or—horrors—Diamond/Pearl? Same goes for Steven. I *cannot* believe the anime people decided to ditch those two in favor of Lance. I’m sure that if people had been asked at the beginning of the Hoenn arc whether he would show up or not, most people would’ve answered a very certain “No”. Okay, so he’s popular. Well if it’s a popularity contest that determines a character’s recyclability in the series, then Steven definitely would’ve popped up again by now, because Pokémon Search clearly indicates that he’s FAR more popular than Lance in the fandom right now (133 fansite results for “Daigo” vs. 26 fansite results for “Wataru”)—in fact, even Wallace is more popular than Lance right now (55 for “Mikuri”)—and I’m sure that this was already the case by the time the anime had gotten this far, because most of the Hoenn Champions’ popularity came from the games (including Ruby/Sapphire), which had been out for quite a while by the time the anime came to this episode.

    So there really isn’t any good reason why Lance was the best character choice for this two-parter, unless you consider a “good reason” to be the anime storywriters’ penchant for predictability and character clichés.
     
  2. Alfonso

    Alfonso Derpgull

    Uh, everyone loves Superheroes?

    I hate Superheroes, and I hate Lance.

    Thing is people, the next episode is going to RUIN this Two-Parter.
     
  3. Puffs

    Puffs ...NINE-THOUSAND!!!!

    and you're complaining about cliches? You are a cliche!

    "Oh wah! I don't wanna see the dub because my expectations are higher than a hippe Rayquaza. I also don't wanna see it in English because I'm racist. Wah!"
     
  4. Swellow

    Swellow Spider Sceptile

    Surprised that they don't pronounce the E also This was my first Advanced Battle ep. Furthermore Trainer's choice was interesting why not choose at least Torchic against plusle and minun thanks to electric toasting Mudkip's water.
     
  5. Asrialys

    Asrialys Well-Known Member

    They probably had some misinformation about Mudkip's type. Maybe they thought it always started out as Water/Ground since its evolutions are of that type. Or maybe the question was worded wrong and they never noticed. These guys only translate and distribute the episodes. It's not like they are actual fans or have the mind to make sure their work is 100% correct.

    If they're gonna do things like this incorrectly, then they should just have stuck with the original commercial breaks and stuck the english Pokemon logo over the Japanese one.
     
  6. WaterDragon trainer

    WaterDragon trainer Freak Like Me

    EvilKeckleon previously made a statement that Steven has no pokemon to swim with. Technically, that's not true. He has an Aggron and in the RSE games, Aggron can swim(using surf). Just think about that surfing Rhydon back in the Orange Islands.
     
  7. XDLord

    XDLord Guest

    Meh, pure crap describes it nicely. How the **** could Kyogre and Groudon been captured so easily, and how did Lance know about their plot or get there(well, actually the second part screams Dragonite out loud), and why the **** showcase him again?! He already got a 2-parter, why another? Plus, Kyogre got a lot more screetime then Groudon, and that=doom from the Groudon fans.
     
  8. The Big Al

    The Big Al I just keeping Octo

    Mudkip is unforgivable because we've seen Mudkip get blasted by electric attacks. I'm getting sick of trainer's choice. I'm tempted to want "Who that Pokemon?" back.

    Why doesn't 4Kids just show the eye catch? It'd b cheaper to change the Pokect Monster Icon to Pokemon than to make trainer's choice.

    Alfonso is right. This two parter has a terrible ending.

    I for one don't like Lance. For one thing, I can't stand the voice. It just doesn't say person to take seriously. The pink hair doesn't help his imge either.

    I had been waiting THREE YEARS to see this. I loved Magma and Aqua. They were so mysterious and if given the chance would have crushed Ash and shown him what a real evil team was capable of. Not to mention they won usually. They completed their objectives and made Ash and TR look like jokes. For it to end like this is truly anti-climatic and disrespectful for what was the best thing to happen to the anime since Kanto.
     
  9. wobbanut

    wobbanut Team Awesome

    This was a pretty exciting episode. :) Maxie was a great villain, though Archie got on my nerves a bit. It was nice to see the head honchos for the first time, though. I already enjoy seeing Shelley, and seeing Lance again was great too. This episode had great drama, great suspense, and it made me eager for next week's episode. I wish Team Rocket had been in it more, but it was funny seeing Wobbuffet pop out of the sand. I wonder where Chimecho was, though. This is the second time that it's mysteriously disappeared after a big blastoff ("A Scare to Remember" was the first). James must recall it when we're not looking.

    Overall, 10/10 for me. Excellent episode.
     
  10. Haunter Hunter Sohrab

    Haunter Hunter Sohrab Johto Champion

    The first Advanced Battle episode I saw. Hmm I think it was pretty good and how they used some sounds from when Mewtwo opens his eyes from the first movie. I really liked Team Rockets wall trick, it was pretty funny. Overall it was a pretty nice episode and I'll be looking forward to the second part.
     
  11. Team Rocket Admin

    Team Rocket Admin Well-Known Member

    Yes, but Aggron wouldn't be able to dive down (for a long period of time) and rescue Brock, May, and Max. Plus, Aggron is smaller than Gyarados, so all 3 would have a hard time staying on Aggron, add the fact that Aggron might get tired of having to use his arms/legs to swim, and well, you've got the Pokemon reenactment of the Titanic. Also, that Rhydon was in Johto.
     
  12. ChaosMage

    ChaosMage Izit cuz I is black?

    This was a really good episode. I have few complaints, as it really was great across the board. Too bad the second part tomorrow will be such a screw you situation.
     
  13. Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior

    Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior Well-Known Member

    why was it called 'gaining groudon'? The ep was about kyogre!

    Archie's voice is to deep
    Maxie is to NICE!!!!

    they changed Wobbuffet's voice, but it was cool to see kyogre

    6/10
     
  14. Satoshi

    Satoshi リーリエの為に戦ってるトレーナー

    It was called "Gaining Groudon" because Magma-Dan was trying to gain Groudon. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Puffs

    Puffs ...NINE-THOUSAND!!!!

    plus, I believe I've heard the term "gaining ground" before.
     
  16. Super Gullwing

    Super Gullwing Team Skull Mom

    I really liked this eppie ^_^ (Omg, why do I awlays say that? -_-') And kyogre was in it! <3 Pikachu was really cool too..Heh..Eviil. ^_^' I really can't wait for the next episode where Kyogre and Groudon battle! =D **Gets carrots**
     
  17. Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior

    Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior Well-Known Member

    Groudon only appeared at the end though! and even then it didn't even move!

    this ep was all about Team Aqua trying to get Kyogre.........


    and I have heard the term 'gaining ground' before, but it just dosen't make sense if Groudon was only in for about 20-30 seconds!

    Toonami cut out the trainers choice........
     
  18. Satoshi

    Satoshi リーリエの為に戦ってるトレーナー

    No, you don't understand. It was called "Gaining Groudon" because Magma-Dan was trying to gain Groudon, as in trying to find and capture it, Sherlock. >_>
     
  19. blob

    blob Well-Known Member

    I wish Toonami would include Trainers Choice again.
     
  20. Pokemon Fan

    Pokemon Fan Knuckle Trainer

    Lance is universally regarded as one of the strongest trainers in the world (the dub at least having referred to him as "unbeatable" or "invincible" when he first appeared), and he is in a group that is constantly researching groups like TR, Magma and Aqua. We don't know how Pokemon government works, but it seems pretty clear Elite master trainers have jurisdiction over most any part of the world that knows who they are.

    Steven on the other hand was simply called a "powerful trainer" with no evidence in the anime of him having any other credentials aside from his father being the owner of a famous company.

    Wallace would indeed have been appropriate here, I would have liked to have had both. Still it can't be said Lance had no right to be there, even though he wasn't the best choice.

    Well "someone" always wins against the bad guys, Ash himself has been beaten a number of times by them. More often Ash assists rather than directly winning. He has also lost a good number of trainer battles without having a rematch, though the number has declined as his skills have improved.

    I don't quite understand as I saw something quite different. Lance's whole point in interfering with the groups was because their ambitions were going to harm everyone including themselves. It was made quite clear that at least Team Magma saw itself as a group doing whatever was necessary to achieve a righteous cause that would ultimately help the world.

    Since when would G Men be only involved in Pokemon mistreated by technology? The orbs are dangerous in anyone's hands, just because they're ancient objects doesn't mean they're any less harmful than modern means of controlling a Pokemon's mind and body.

    And when did it ever say that they caught Kyogre and Groudon with that machinery? Judging by how easily Kyogre broke free onces it awoke it seemed obvious to me that they were dormant from the start and were caught that way, there was no struggle or battle.

    See above, just as the games say they were in a dormant state.

    But wouldn't that have ruined the premise of the team, that they were really helping the world? Team Rocket (aside from Jessie and James) are the ones out for only themselves, they're the cliche power-hungry villains, Aqua (though maybe not the way Archie was acting) and Magma are supposed to extremists groups who think they're doing what amounts to a greater good.

    <><><>

    "Gaining ground" is a saying that worked with Groudon's name. The pun-happy dubbers had no reason to care if Groudon appeared on the screen for long or not, it was talked about for a lot fo the episode and seen at the end so that was good enough for them to use one of their beloved puns.

    <><><>

    I've read and seen much of the second part and I really don't see what everyone's problem is. Those who are expecting something really climatic like a "Revelation Lugia" length struggle will be disappointed, but I accept the writers chose to take a different route. At least it will be more climatic than in the games where essentially Groudon and Kyogre face off, Rayquaza shows up, and voila its all over. Even if it could have been better I don't see how anyone can say that the events ends in an unfitting way. Just like in the games you get the Groudon/Kyogre showdown and Magma and Aqua realize how completely in over their heads they have gotten themselves.
     

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