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Galar Dex Controversy

Discussion in 'Pokémon Sword & Shield Discussion' started by AgentKallus, Jul 10, 2019.

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  1. Madster

    Madster New Member

    And they can do that with the same model. Just put a different texture on it. Maybe touch up some outlines eventually (like what they did to Pikachu between LG and Sw&Sh). Most animations stay the same and they can just re-use them. Overall, the changes with a good base model and animations should require only minimal work. It does require time to do those, but it would be vastly faster than remaking them every time. Unless you switch to an engine with greatly improved graphics compared to your base model, of course. As for those game-specific animations, it would depend on how far they take their bases. The XY models had walking and running animations that were never used, so they could theoretically create the bases with some planned features in mind.
     
    Jerimiyah and BTS_fan like this.
  2. TsengHyena

    TsengHyena Well-Known Member

    With Digimon Cyber Sleuth coming to Steam, Pokemon might be in for some competition, which might help Gamefreak to modernize.
     
    Jerimiyah likes this.
  3. Cometstarlight

    Cometstarlight What do I do now?

    Eh, I doubt it. Digimon hasn't been a relevant competitor to Pokemon in years and since none of Pokemon's games are on steam, it's not like it'll be competition to GF.
     
    Dragalge likes this.
  4. Leonhart

    Leonhart The Lying King

    While I also don't really care about the majority of the hundreds of Pokemon that exist since it's not like I would've used each and every one of them anyway, I do think the whole "Dexit" thing is a bit unfair to some people who might have a favorite Pokemon that'll be among the ones that are excluded from Shield and Sword.
     
  5. BTS_fan

    BTS_fan Banned

    Imagine thinking that Digimon is actually a threat to Pokemon in 2019. Maybe I would've agreed 20 years ago... wait no, not even then. Not even Yo-Kai Watch (aka the much talked about usurper of Pokemon's throne a few years ago) is a big enough threat these days. As awful as these games are looking right now, I'm not expecting the game sales to dip low enough for Gamefreak to actually make improvements with the next installments.
     
  6. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    I think this right here was the biggest gripe for me about this controversy. I wrote on my blog how I think the way this change was communicated was handled very poorly. I think instead of announcing it at E3 they should have made a separate Pokemon Direct discussing the change (especially if this a policy change) and making sure they explain in detail about Pokemon Home. I don't think that would diminish ALL of the backlash, but I think if they had been thorough about this huge change and explained Home (so people wouldn't be calling it Pokemon Prison) there wouldn't be as much vitriol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  7. Dragalge

    Dragalge Blue Lions

    It worked out nicely for Metroid Prime 4 when they announced that they had to start development over since many people were actually civilized about it. I don’t think a video announcement like that announcing the removal of Pokemon would get the same amount of civilized responses but probably better than this current state.
     
    wolf jani and catzeye like this.
  8. WishIhadaManafi5

    WishIhadaManafi5 Still miss you, Lorne. Staff Member

    Same here. They pretty much doubled down with things as of late and that hasn't helped the situation. Yea that would been nice if they went that route.
     
    anjunajake and catzeye like this.
  9. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    Agreed, that's why I mentioned in my original post that it would not take away all of the backlash. But I think with a more thorough explanation they would at least cut down on some of the misinformation (such as Pokemon Home being Pokemon Prison). I've seen discussions on reddit and Twitter where people have stated they would not be as mad as they are if they knew more about Pokemon Home and what the estimated size of the Galar Dex (and future dexes) would be. I know some people think that asking for the amount of Pokemon is entitled but because this is such a monumental shift, I do say this is one time that this is justified. We still have people running around saying there are only going to be like 200 Pokemon in Galar citing SerebiiJoe's current list as the FINAL dex count, even though he has mentioned multiple times on Twitter that this is not the case.

    Yeah the doubling down was a poor decision. They should have announced a impromptu Pokemon Direct to explain this situation. The longer they keep silent on Pokemon Home in particular, the worse this is going to be. This is not the time to keep mum about things.
     
  10. Leonhart

    Leonhart The Lying King

    I do feel like their apology didn't come out the way that they intended since it was rather short and pretty much repeated the information that we had already known, which made the apology seem insincere even if it was intended to be humble.
     
  11. Chaos Emperor

    Chaos Emperor ................

    It wouldn’t matter how they addressed it; some people just want to watch the world burn.

    I mean we still don’t know everything about home other than it’ll be the eventual successor to bank and have connectivity in some way to sw/sh and other future games. And like the games we won’t know everything until we can actually get our hands on it and use it ourselves to see what it can and can’t do. Since home won’t be out until next year they may not have enough ready to show in terms of features yet. Nintendo and its affiliates won’t show something until THEY feel its ready, unlike most companies who will announce something and it doesn’t get released for 10 years. (Duke Nukem forever anyone?)

    People do need to just cool it for now. Gamefreak made a statement about fans concerns, even if it wasn’t the answer the fans wanted, fans have spammed social media with hate about this, everyone who has an opinion on this has already given their opinion either for for against it; all we can really do now is wait and see how the games unfold. And given this controversy I’m sure anyone who gets an early copy will go data mining immediately to find clues about home connectivity or missing Pokemon/features being half finished in the games code.
     
    Jerimiyah, wolf jani, catzeye and 2 others like this.
  12. WishIhadaManafi5

    WishIhadaManafi5 Still miss you, Lorne. Staff Member

    Exactly. It's not helping them.
     
  13. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    The yearly game release is so GameFreak can assert relevancy and influence in a media franchise with so many interested parties. GF is the only source of new IP that drives the merchandise sales and anime ad revenue that make up a much greater share of the profits to Nintendo and The Pokemon Company. The games themselves are small potatoes in comparison, and we only need to look at the decline of sales over the years as well as the decline of total games as spinoffs stopped being produced.

    GO changed things, but whatever Niantic does is still "non-canon". They do not hold the power to create new, legitimate Pokemon IP; nor does DeNa.

    Looking at things this way, the game quality really doesn't matter, especially if sheep will buy the game regardless. Smogon will recognise a new meta, the anime will move to the new region, life will go on. And then a new game is released in the Fall.

    Ultimately, I feel like with Dexit fans are acting like GameFreak needs to reward them for supporting them in the past during hard times, acknowledging that these fans opinions matter. The truth is GF owes fans nothing and Switch owners are not that financially relevant to the Pokemon empire. It is the same for Star Wars and Marvel, where even with the enormous value of their films, the value of all other media tie-ins combined is larger.

    Outside of games, the world is no different. We live in a twilight era where in a decade or two, machines and AI will displace human labour and intelligence. It is a bleak tomorrow that demands introspection as to the meaning of human existence as the traditional means of self definition become routine, irrelevant and obsolete. No one likes being told they have no value, but like death it has now become an inevitability we must cope with somehow.
     
    anjunajake likes this.
  14. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    I feel the need to express this. This is based on observations throughout the Internet, so I'm not pinning this solely in Serebii forums.

    What really irks me about the whole National Dex movement is that some of those people really lack self awareness.

    They act as if any sort of words to the contrary is an attack on their beliefs. Meanwhile, I've seen people attack others simply for saying that they are looking forward to the games. Besides the harassment, I've seen people say that harassing Masuda is okay (as long as it's not death threats) which is horrible. Also, if you reason with them, you're a shill, but they can't be toxic if they're being as awful as they are.

    People have twisted Game Freaks narrative several times over, but that pales in comparison to the toxicity I've seen with some of the dex cut complainers. I've seen people be rather rude on the other side, but I've seen it more with the formerly mentioned group.

    Also, I want to make it painfully clear that I'm not saying this is all of the people who express criticism for the National Dex. It's just painfully clear within some of the group.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Deitylight, Mr.Fiend, 3DSRed and 6 others like this.
  15. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    That's the reason this topic was suggested. You can't get rid of the controversy from this. If they try, they'll look like they're condoning GameFreak's decision, even if they're not. The only way to truly get rid of it is for GameFreak to change (and it's very clear that's not going to happen, given the kind of responses they've presented to us on the issue). But at the very least, having one topic for it will contain most of it instead of letting it spread to the whole forum.
     
  16. SpookyMimikyu

    SpookyMimikyu See me?

    Yeah, with this entire controversy neither side could really win. That's why I haven't really spoken much in the general discussion, and why when I lost my cool after a few years of logged out lurkerness in that thread over the toxicity not just on this forum but just pretty much everywhere. There are especially a few people on multiple online platforms that have been really irking me on how insistent they are in being confrontational on both sides, even to those not interested in the debate. You could argue that no opinion is free from criticism, and in fact it's always good to see multiple points of view can be seen with the opposing side's criticism, but I'm pretty sure no one appreciates being called a hater or a sheep.

    Not to mention it's the same arguments over and over again. Like "oh this Wingull isn't flapping its wings" and then "okay but it's literally stated in the lore that it doesn't flap its wings", and then "alright but Wingull isn't flapping its wings because Game Freak isn't putting effort into their animations", "it makes sense with its Dex entries", repeat ad nauseum. This might be an exaggeration, and I left out about the anti-Dexit's pretty fair point that they could do more with their turning animations, but it's the best example I can give off the top of my head.

    Honestly this entire thread is a godsend. We won't have to worry about someone trying to spread the Dexit controversy in a discussion as innocuous as talking about how cute Yamper is while we have a place to discuss Dexit and other controversies, like SBaby said.
     
  17. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    Unfortunately, that is the correct mentality. Fans needed to be persuaded to not buy Sword & Shield at all costs, because good sales will justify everything GameFreak's done to this point.

    That's why it was so demoralizing for the Americans to buy LGPE last year. Japanese gamers showed their displeasure by depressing sales, but Americans ruined everything by buying the games in droves. That success singled to Nintendo and GameFreak that Go pandering and repackaging shallow nostalgia is a moneymaking formula.

    It might be ugly, but the violent fans have realized that if they don't act now, in 2-3 years they'll be ushered out of the franchise and fandom by the changes.
     
    anjunajake likes this.
  18. SpookyMimikyu

    SpookyMimikyu See me?

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but whether you're for or against Game Freak's opinions, going at people's throats to change their minds isn't the right move, I don't think. I'm assuming by violent fans you mean the people I mentioned having that sort of attitude, though feel free to correct me. Attacking people isn't going to persuade them to your side of the debate, it's going to make them go on the defensive. And then it just becomes a big ugly mess. It's expected to be heated about something you're super passionate about, regardless which side of the fence you're standing on or sitting comfortably on it, but going at it figuratively screaming your face red is just going to make people think all anti or pro-Dexit people are that mean and believe you don't have a single good argument to stand on. Which admittedly I'm seeing a lot as a side effect of the toxicity as the person assumes the other side isn't very smart.

    Though that's just my hot take since the way I learned debate is debating in a room with other people, not on a public forum.

    EDIT: I forget how to English at night.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  19. Marzbar

    Marzbar Well-Known Member

    I think the best thing they could have done to explain the changes and the lack of graphical improvements is just be brutally honest about it.

    Just admit Pokémon isn’t the company’s biggest priority, and therefore they don’t have the resources to commit to including every Pokémon due to new game mechanics in SwSh like Dynamax etc, or the time to create new and better animations for everything. And on top of that admit that they have struggled adapting to the new hardware and moving on from a strictly handheld format.

    Don’t feed us BS about “competitive balance” and “fitting the theme of the region” and needing to develop “high quality animations”. Clearly all lies.
     
  20. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    I would have agreed before LGPE. But LGPE revealed that many fans will buy the games regardless of quality. The aggression is on the rise because people have realized that those loyalists will never be persuaded by words, making them part of the problem. Online outrage has been successful at rooting out entrenched evils like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein, so there is hope that enough indignation will spark change.

    Unfortunately, Japan/Nintendo/GameFreak are a wholly different beast. I predicted before Masuda's statement that GameFreak would just ignore the fan outrage. I was wrong about that, but Masuda's statement amounted to taunting. He, and GameFreak know that the loyalists will support the games and so the fan outrage as-is will basically amount to hot air once SS is released.

    Because if Americans supported LGPE, the shallowest cash grab in Pokemon history, they'll support Generation VIII. GF only has to act tone deaf for 5 more months and they win.

    Granted, GameFreak could squash these complaints fairly easily. Dexit is being used as a catch-all criticism of Sword & Shield as a whole; it's the only way the hardcore haters have been able to find common ground with the moderate fans. But the actual loss of the national dex is an easily remedied nitpick. If GF announces the national dex for the 2020-2021 main series games, the entire movement falls apart. GameFreak still wins.

    Ultimately, there's no way for fans to win here without drastic action beyond what we're already seeing. This whole "controversy" is exceedingly fragile and one-note.
     
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