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Gamefreak and "Shillmon" Starters?

Should the Starters be treated more equally?


  • Total voters
    23

OshyHikari

c l a r i t y
From what I was able to gather, the most popular starter to least popular for each generation was the following, based on appearances in marketing and fandom opinions, though some generations did not have an outright standout as I found out below:

Gen 1: Charizard > Blastoise > Venusaur, obvious due to Charizard having two Megas, and getting its Gigantamax form before the other two
Gen 2: Typhlosion > Feraligatr > Meganium, due to Cyndaquil line being owned by two main characters in the anime (Ash and Dawn), as well as the main protagonist in the Johto manga chapters
Gen 3: Blaziken > Sceptile > Swampert, obvious because Blaziken got its Mega before the other two, and I recall Treecko being chosen more than Mudkip based on design preference
Gen 4: Infernape = Empoleon > Torterra, given Infernape's major role in the anime and Piplup's heavy appearances in marketing
Gen 5: Samurott > Serperior > Emboar, based on how hated the Tepig line is by the fandom and how much Oshawott featured in marketing.
Gen 6: Greninja > Delphox > Chesnaught, obvious enough for reasons already mentioned. Chespin line is hurt severely by the overwhelming hatred towards Quilladin
Gen 7: Decidueye = Incineroar > Primarina, namely due to Primarina being seen as too "feminine" while the other two got major appearances in Pokken Tournament and Super Smash Bros. respectively
Gen 8: Cinderace > Inteleon > Rillaboom, the former was the first one obtained by Goh in the anime and is also favoured more in competitive, while Inteleon is more divisive outside of Japan, and Rillaboom isn't liked much outside of competitive circles

As you can see, the Fire-type tends to be most favoured by the marketing team when it comes to a generation's starter trio. The only time Grass was the most popular was Gen 7, as I recall Rowlet winning a poll for most chosen Gen 7 starter, but Incineroar gets fairly equal treatment too so I put them as even.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Does that make Chespin the least popular gen 6 starter? Because I know lots of people didn't like Quilladin.
Chespin line is hurt severely by the overwhelming hatred towards Quilladin
I love Chespin and Chesnaught than people give him credit for but Quilladin is a disgrace. I blame the line's lack popularity of the poor design choice made when designing it. Chespin and Chesnaught deserved a better middle form.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Closest we had was Sceptile.
Even so it got overshadowed by Blaziken.

I don't see Sceptile being overshadowed by Blaziken. Considering AG, we only saw Blaziken with Harrison at the Silver Conference and then only at the end of AG when May's Combusken evolved, while Ash had Sceptile for several important battles. Yes, Blaziken did get its Mega Evolution first. I honestly don't know why, but it had begun to become pretty popular over VGC with its amazing Hidden Ability, which is likely the reason.

From what I was able to gather, the most popular starter to least popular for each generation was the following, based on appearances in marketing and fandom opinions, though some generations did not have an outright standout as I found out below:

Gen 1: Charizard > Blastoise > Venusaur, obvious due to Charizard having two Megas, and getting its Gigantamax form before the other two
Gen 2: Typhlosion > Feraligatr > Meganium, due to Cyndaquil line being owned by two main characters in the anime (Ash and Dawn), as well as the main protagonist in the Johto manga chapters
Gen 3: Blaziken > Sceptile > Swampert, obvious because Blaziken got its Mega before the other two, and I recall Treecko being chosen more than Mudkip based on design preference
Gen 4: Infernape = Empoleon > Torterra, given Infernape's major role in the anime and Piplup's heavy appearances in marketing
Gen 5: Samurott > Serperior > Emboar, based on how hated the Tepig line is by the fandom and how much Oshawott featured in marketing.
Gen 6: Greninja > Delphox > Chesnaught, obvious enough for reasons already mentioned. Chespin line is hurt severely by the overwhelming hatred towards Quilladin
Gen 7: Decidueye = Incineroar > Primarina, namely due to Primarina being seen as too "feminine" while the other two got major appearances in Pokken Tournament and Super Smash Bros. respectively
Gen 8: Cinderace > Inteleon > Rillaboom, the former was the first one obtained by Goh in the anime and is also favoured more in competitive, while Inteleon is more divisive outside of Japan, and Rillaboom isn't liked much outside of competitive circles

As you can see, the Fire-type tends to be most favoured by the marketing team when it comes to a generation's starter trio. The only time Grass was the most popular was Gen 7, as I recall Rowlet winning a poll for most chosen Gen 7 starter, but Incineroar gets fairly equal treatment too so I put them as even.

You mention several forms of media as arguments, but then don't use them for other situations.
- Typhlosion was used by Gold and is a good example, but then again, Venusaur was used by Red and played a very memorable role in probably one of the alltime classic episodes involving Bulbasaur's 'evolution', while Blastoise was relegated to a filler-episode. So in my head, Kanto would at least be Charizard (X->Y) -> Venusaur -> Blastoise.
- The same can be said about Gen3. Ruby used Swampert while Saphire had Blaziken. Sceptile was a none-factor until Ash got his in the Battle Frontier portion of the animé (it even debuted late in the manga (the Emerald-chapter).
- I agree with the rest of the generations. Though I would say that Torterra's been given some love lately and was undeniably present enough in the animé (Paul and Ash) and manga (Dia) - and even had quite a big scene in the Detective Pikachu movie. But yeah, compared to Infernape's overwhelming popularity in VGC and the animé and Piplup's (or pinguins in general) easy marketability, yeah, it would be bottom, but definitely not comparable to Emboar or Chesnaught levels of disdain.

I love Chespin and Chesnaught than people give him credit for but Quilladin is a disgrace. I blame the line's lack popularity of the poor design choice made when designing it. Chespin and Chesnaught deserved a better middle form.

It might just be me, but I love Quilladin. I think it's a fun dopey design that's meant as the bulky one of the three, while Frogadier was overtly sleak (because frogs) and Braixen was furrybait (no reason to play around it, everybody knows it). It even has a better colorscheme then Chesnaught. Between Quilladin, Servine and Thwackey, I would definitely pick Quilladin 100% of the time.
 
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Hilda

Well-Known Member
Looks like I'm the first one to vote no. I would expect them to give more attention to more profitable characters just like in every other franchise.
 

OshyHikari

c l a r i t y
You mention several forms of media as arguments, but then don't use them for other situations.
- Typhlosion was used by Gold and is a good example, but then again, Venusaur was used by Red and played a very memorable role in probably one of the alltime classic episodes involving Bulbasaur's 'evolution', while Blastoise was relegated to a filler-episode. So in my head, Kanto would at least be Charizard (X->Y) -> Venusaur -> Blastoise.
- The same can be said about Gen3. Ruby used Swampert while Saphire had Blaziken. Sceptile was a none-factor until Ash got his in the Battle Frontier portion of the animé (it even debuted late in the manga (the Emerald-chapter).
- I agree with the rest of the generations. Though I would say that Torterra's been given some love lately and was undeniably present enough in the animé (Paul and Ash) and manga (Dia) - and even had quite a big scene in the Detective Pikachu movie. But yeah, compared to Infernape's overwhelming popularity in VGC and the animé and Piplup's (or pinguins in general) easy marketability, yeah, it would be bottom, but definitely not comparable to Emboar or Chesnaught levels of disdain.
Fair enough. I wasn't too sure on Johto because I never really saw that much material that favoured one particular starter but I always leaned towards Typhlosion when it came to which one I speculated was most popular. Blaziken being most favoured for Hoenn was obvious, but I was torn over which one between Sceptile and Swampert was in second place.
 

octoboy

I Crush Everything
So, to start off by answering the initial question, I'd love it if the starters got equal treatment. If anything, I'd like it if the obvious in-game perks such as extra forms were always given equally amongst the starters. Even if the anime is going to showcase one a bit more than the others (which is pretty hard to avoid, as the anime doesn't seem to like to give Ash all 3 fully-fledged starters, so they'll inevitably have to pick which one of the three he gets), there at least shouldn't be an objectively wrong choice of starter for the players by making them miss out on a bonus form if they don't pick a certain starter.

Gen 2: Typhlosion > Feraligatr > Meganium, due to Cyndaquil line being owned by two main characters in the anime (Ash and Dawn), as well as the main protagonist in the Johto manga chapters
From what I gather, chikorita's line got a comparatively high amount of exposure in the anime, with both Casey and Ash having one, and chikorita being the only gen 2 starter of Ash's to evolve in Johto (cyndaquil didn't evolve until Sinnoh). Though I guess meganium has the disadvantage of being one of, if not the most infamously ineffective starters in terms of gameplay.

I was going to ask the same about torterra, which Locormus already has. Like chikorita, it was the first starter Ash caught, and the line was represented in Ash's team and another recurring character's team. Though from what I've heard, Ash's torterra did suffer from mostly being a battle jobber who'd constantly fail its rock climb finish.

With those, and what was mentioned about sceptile (which, I think was Ash's only gen 3 starter), in mind, it seems that the grass starters' lack of popularity isn't always from a lack of trying, at least as far as the anime is concerned. It seems that often the anime will at least try to lead with them, only for them to be eclipsed by another starter (usually a fire type) later on, either in the anime itself (as with infernape) or in the games (as with blaziken by gens 5/6, and again, infernape in gen 4).

I wonder if grass starters partially just suffer in general due to their type having the most weaknesses (alongside rock), hampering their ability to play well, or at least have appeal in the battle department. And maybe it's also just a bit harder to make appealing in general, as a creature with plant powers seems to be a bit harder sell than a creature with fire powers, while the water types don't necessarily have to lean in on their elemental side as much, as looking like an aquatic animal often suffices in advertising their type, so they can be appealing in ways not directly connected to weaponizing water, a la samurott. I also notice grass starters are usually much more likely to have bulkier designs, which I've always noticed the anime likes to use as punching bags for the smaller, quicker pokemon to show off by demolishing. And notably, usually in cases where the grass starter has a leaner, more speed-oriented final form (like sceptile, or decidueye), the fire starter is often also has a pretty adept, maneuverable build, letting their natural fire-type edge get the best of the grass starter.

Though then again, I actually have to wonder if the fire type's getting to be a bulky quadruped for a change would still cause it to be the most popular by lapping up adoration from all the players sick of the fire starter always ending up a humanoid-built mammal...
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
GF definitely designs some starter Pokemon with the purpose of being more popular than others. Their marketing team is just doing their jobs even if I'm sick of things like Incineroar and Greninja getting more focus than the other fully evolved starter Pokemon. :[
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
GF definitely designs some starter Pokemon with the purpose of being more popular than others. Their marketing team is just doing their jobs even if I'm sick of things like Incineroar and Greninja getting more focus than the other fully evolved starter Pokemon. :[

Actually no. They're designing all starters to be more popular then other pokemon, but they're definitely attempting for all of them to be liked by a broad audience.

There's a difference between designing and marketing.
 

Mythical-Moonlight

I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
I think each Starter is designed to appeal to a different audience so it makes it easier for players to choose which one they want

For example take Primarina for instance who was obviously designed with a Female Demographic in mind.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Incineroar who was definitely designed to appeal to Boys-Men

Decidueye seems designed to appeal to the more "Edgy" Teenage Crowd with it's Dark Hooded Cloak and Ghost Typing

Inteleon has a Huge Fanbase consisting of Teenage -Young Adult Woman in Japan and quite a few in the West too. Due to the fact that it looks like an Effeminate Man (It's also picked up steam amongst LGBT players for the same reason)
I'm guessing Female Pokemon Players must be a majority over in Japan?
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
GF definitely designs some starter Pokemon with the purpose of being more popular than others.
I do agree that they design some Starters to look more appealing than others for the sake of making them more popular in the long run. Things like Dodaitose (Torterra) are an example of a Starter that was pretty much overshadowed by its fellow regional Starters: it's so unsightly that I can't imagine Game Freak designing it for any purpose other than needing something suitable for Hayashigame (Grotle) to evolve into. To me it lacks any truly appealing traits, whereas Goukazaru (Infernape) and Emperte (Empoleon) at least have a coolness factor to them.
 

OshyHikari

c l a r i t y
I think each Starter is designed to appeal to a different audience so it makes it easier for players to choose which one they want

For example take Primarina for instance who was obviously designed with a Female Demographic in mind.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Incineroar who was definitely designed to appeal to Boys-Men

Decidueye seems designed to appeal to the more "Edgy" Teenage Crowd with it's Dark Hooded Cloak and Ghost Typing

Inteleon has a HUGE Fanbase consisting of Teenage -Young Adult Woman in Japan and quite a few in the West too. Due to the fact that it looks like an Effeminate Man (It's also picked up steam amongst LGBT players for the same reason)
I'm guessing Female Pokemon Players must be a majority over in Japan?

This I can definitely understand now, but I feel base stage has also been a factor behind which starter players tend to choose. I recall Rowlet's design alone is the reason why Decidueye was the most chosen Gen 7 starter, the first time ever I recall a Grass-type took top honour in official "which starter did you choose in this gen/region" polls. Popplio was obviously the least chosen due to it only truly appealing to female players, meaning male players were less likely to pick it.
 
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